Poll: Would you rather playable dragons be a race or class feature?

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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire
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    Or just go play a game based on it already

    https://www.istaria.com/

  2. #42
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    I think it majorly depends on how its done, a race is too tricky, i don't want another neutral bs, but seems like its the way they would want to go.

    I would be perfectly fine with drakonids,working like worgens, dragonmaw clan turning into humanoids dragons

    Class? if done right, cause DH was not good.

  3. #43
    I'm actually interested by the idea of a dragon-themed class with specs NOT themed on the dragonflights. Let the dragonflight be a choice made by the player that only affects cosmetics (i.e. by giving some of your spells a molten theme if you're a black dragon, sandy effects if you're bronze, etc.), but the mechanics of the spells remain the same regardless of your chosen flight. That enables players to play their preferred spec while still getting the cosmetic benefits of their preferred dragonflight.

    That being said, I don't know what the core fantasy of each spec *would* be, if you let each dragonflight's theme be applied across all specs. Maybe a spec based on the general treasure-hoarding tendencies of dragons, where you attack your enemy with literal centuries of accumulated wealth? Throwing fistfuls of gems and swinging bags of gold at them, maybe? Lol, I don't know.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Creating new death knights can easily be explained. Creating more dragons after it's been established they're sterile, a huge plot point in Legion, would require some pretty stupid retcons.
    Creating new death knights involved retcons and plot changes. You seem to only have a beef if retcons and plot changes happen to Dragon lore, while anything else is fine.

    Sounds like you just have a bias against Dragons being playable, really. I mean if we're gonna talk about stupid retcons, then Arthas choosing to raise Gnomes into Death Knights is about as stupid as it gets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Creating new death knights involved retcons and plot changes. You seem to only have a beef if retcons and plot changes happen to Dragon lore, while anything else is fine.

    Sounds like you just have a bias against Dragons being playable, really. I mean if we're gonna talk about stupid retcons, then Arthas choosing to raise Gnomes into Death Knights is about as stupid as it gets.
    No it really didn't. Death knights literally have three ways to create more of them. I really don't recall any retcons needing to be done to create more death knights.

    As far as Arthas raising a myriad of races into death knights, it's pretty obvious it was because they were nothing but fodder to him. Their race meant nothing. He wanted quick and easy soldiers.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Creating new death knights can easily be explained. Creating more dragons after it's been established they're sterile, a huge plot point in Legion, would require some pretty stupid retcons.
    Or, y'know, a new plot point in the now established mythical homeland of the dragons. Re-fertiling the dragons could be a large part of the overarching plot or a side note; or there's an unaffected group of different dragons there.

    Of course, Demon Hunters are a class, and those are supposed to be *miniscule* in number; like 1/100th of trainees survived to even become Demon Hunters, let alone surviving actual combat. Numbers are basically useless in WoW

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No it really didn't. Death knights literally have three ways to create more of them. I really don't recall any retcons needing to be done to create more death knights.

    As far as Arthas raising a myriad of races into death knights, it's pretty obvious it was because they were nothing but fodder to him. Their race meant nothing. He wanted quick and easy soldiers.
    There are more ways to create Dragons too, just that lore hasn't explicitly explained it.

    We know Dragons were evolved through Titan intervention. We know there are Titan artifacts still around that are capable of cleansing Dragon Eggs. We are now meeting Titan creations like MOTHER, who has listed a bunch of Titan facilities we have not visited yet.

    All your answers are in lore, you're just choosing not to make any of the connections and deciding that any change to the current 'Dragons are sterile' narrative would be bullshit, even though a search for a solution is already being established as we speak.


    Honest question, what do you think Wrathion's reason is to search for the 'Home of all Dragonflights'? Do you think he's just feeling a bit homesick, and that's all?


    Hell, even TBC capped off the whole Demon Hunter lore, and we have playable Demon Hunters despite of it. Illidan was killed. His trainees and followers were all dealt with. The Illidari was effectively dismantled right at TBC, with none left alive to carry on a formal Illidari Demon Hunter class. Yet here comes Legion retconning it all, saying that a bunch of them existed off world, and the ones we played were jailed off-screen in some vault that no one's heard about. That's the same level of 'bullshit retcon' that you're talking about, except you don't have a problem with it because you only think Dragon changes are bullshit.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-01-27 at 10:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zankai27 View Post
    Or, y'know, a new plot point in the now established mythical homeland of the dragons. Re-fertiling the dragons could be a large part of the overarching plot or a side note; or there's an unaffected group of different dragons there.

    Of course, Demon Hunters are a class, and those are supposed to be *miniscule* in number; like 1/100th of trainees survived to even become Demon Hunters, let alone surviving actual combat. Numbers are basically useless in WoW
    You can always train new demon hunters. You can't make new dragons in current canon. To take a huge plot point from Legion and basically light it on fire would just further make the lore of WoW a complete fucking joke.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    There are more ways to create Dragons too, just that lore hasn't explicitly explained it.

    We know Dragons were evolved through Titan intervention. We know there are Titan artifacts still around that are capable of cleansing Dragon Eggs. We are now meeting Titan creations like MOTHER, who has listed a bunch of Titan facilities we have not visited yet.

    All your answers are in lore, you're just choosing not to make any of the connections and deciding that any change to the current 'Dragons are sterile' narrative would be bullshit, even though a search for a solution is already being established as we speak.


    Honest question, what do you think Wrathion's reason is to search for the 'Home of all Dragonflights'? Do you think he's just feeling a bit homesick, and that's all?
    No there isn't. Titan's created dragons by speeding up the evolutionary process of protodrakes. Aside from that, there has been nothing in lore that states there are ways to create more dragons other than dragons mating and laying eggs. There is absolutely nothing suggesting that a solution is being sought after. Wrathion is allegedly looking for the Dragon Isles but there has been absolutely no information to clue anyone in as to WHY. It could easily be because he wants to find the temples to the Old Gods and dismantle them since Blizzard has said that numerous Old God temples were on the Dragon Isles.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    No there isn't. Titan's created dragons by speeding up the evolutionary process of protodrakes. Aside from that, there has been nothing in lore that states there are ways to create more dragons other than dragons mating and laying eggs.
    Lore never stated there's any other way to have Death Knights be created other than Arthas. You do realize that the 'three ways' you explained were new explanations, with new lore, right?

    The original lore for a Death Knight was either a WC2 style 'Orc Necrolyte soul in a decaying Human Knight' or else a 'Corrupted Paladin who followed Arthas into Northrend'. Everything else we got was new lore. Anything involving the Runeblades and the Lich King are retcons.

    There is absolutely nothing suggesting that a solution is being sought after. Wrathion is allegedly looking for the Dragon Isles but there has been absolutely no information to clue anyone in as to WHY. It could easily be because he wants to find the temples to the Old Gods and dismantle them since Blizzard has said that numerous Old God temples were on the Dragon Isles.
    And I'm pointing out that there could be a reason. You're saying that it'd be a retcon to imply any solution exists, when you're not open to the possibility of Wrathion searching for the homeland for the exact reason of curing the sterility problem. Like, I'm pointing out the exact solution to your issue without it being a retcon; a reason already exists in the lore, it's simply not fully explained yet.

    He's been advocating for rebuilding his dragonflight for ages now. How can you not see this? Like, is this information going to blind-side you once Blizzard rolls out with a canonical explanation for why Wrathion is at the Dragon Isles searching for the homeland of the Aspects, and tying it back to him wanting to restore the Aspects power and allow Dragons to breed once more?

    In a surprise, Ebyssian remarked that he was unaware that Wrathion had such a personal concern for his well-being, causing the younger dragon to remark that they were brothers and the only one that Wrathion had left

    It's all there, man. Just have to be open to the possibilities.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-01-27 at 10:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  10. #50
    The last thing WoW needs is another class. They can barely balance what they have.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Lore never stated there's any other way to have Death Knights be created other than Arthas. You do realize that the 'three ways' you explained were new explanations, with new lore, right?

    The original lore for a Death Knight was either a WC2 style 'Orc Necrolyte soul in a decaying Human Knight' or else a 'Corrupted Paladin who followed Arthas into Northrend'. Everything else we got was new lore. Anything involving the Runeblades and the Lich King are retcons.



    And I'm pointing out that there could be a reason. You're saying that it'd be a retcon to imply any solution exists, when you're not open to the possibility of Wrathion searching for the homeland for the exact reason of curing the sterility problem.

    He's been advocating for rebuilding his dragonflight for ages now in the lore. How can you not see this? Like, is this information going to blind-side you once Blizzard rolls out with a canonical explanation for why Wrathion is at the Dragon Isles searching for the homeland of the Aspects, and tying it back to him wanting to restore the Aspects power and allow Dragons to breed once more?
    The corrupted paladins were granted vampiric RUNEblades. So no. The runeblades were not new lore in WoW. Seems like you just really don't pay attention to the lore.

    I don't think Wrathion actually gives a shit about dragons being sterile. He's got a hate boner for the Old Gods so it'd make sense that he'd seek out the Dragon Isles because there is allegedly Old God temples there. There is also absolutely nothing in the lore suggesting it is the homeland of the aspects. There was one throwaway line saying it could be a home for the dragonflights but Rexxar says such a place doesn't exist. But it's clear you care more about Rule of Cool than things making sense.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    The corrupted paladins were granted vampiric RUNEblades. So no. The runeblades were not new lore in WoW. Seems like you just really don't pay attention to the lore.
    Neither is Titan empowerment of Dragons, and the capability of Titan tech cleansing corruption of Dragons.

    I don't think Wrathion actually gives a shit about dragons being sterile. He's got a hate boner for the Old Gods so it'd make sense that he'd seek out the Dragon Isles because there is allegedly Old God temples there. There is also absolutely nothing in the lore suggesting it is the homeland of the aspects. There was one throwaway line saying it could be a home for the dragonflights but Rexxar says such a place doesn't exist. But it's clear you care more about Rule of Cool than things making sense.
    Literally stated in Legion that he's searching for the fabled 'Home of all Dragonflights'.

    And Rexxar isn't exactly an expert on dragon origins, is he?

    But it's clear you care more about Rule of Cool than things making sense.
    Nah, I'm clear on Blizzard caring about the Rule of Cool than they do about making you feel comfortable with not making changes because you happen to think they'd be stupid.

    I think Warlords of Draenor being set in an alternate universe/timeline was a stupid idea. Doesn't change the fact Blizzard went through with it, did it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Neither is Titan empowerment of Dragons, and the capability of Titan tech cleansing corruption of Dragons.



    Literally stated in Legion that he's searching for the fabled 'Home of all Dragonflights'.

    And Rexxar isn't exactly an expert on dragon origins, is he?



    Nah, I'm clear on Blizzard caring about the Rule of Cool than they do about making you feel comfortable with not making changes because you happen to think they'd be stupid.

    I think Warlords of Draenor being set in an alternate universe/timeline was a stupid idea. Doesn't change the fact Blizzard went through with it, did it?
    The Titans empowered 5 dragons. Not all of them. So that really doesn't hold up in this debate.

    And no. The line is "home FOR all dragonflights" not home OF all dragonflights.

    The changes that would need to be done would be pretty fucking stupid. Hopefully Microsoft buying Blizzard prevents them from making MORE stupid decisions....like making dragons playable.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    The Titans empowered 5 dragons. Not all of them. So that really doesn't hold up in this debate.
    The same titan tech cleansed a Black Dragon egg from corruption, through resetting its 'factory settings' before the corruption took place.

    We're looking at the same solution to a different problem.

    And no. The line is "home FOR all dragonflights" not home OF all dragonflights.

    The changes that would need to be done would be pretty fucking stupid. Hopefully Microsoft buying Blizzard prevents them from making MORE stupid decisions....like making dragons playable.
    I mean, all you're doing is just repeating your same opinion, while justifying it as 'I don't want to even think about it being a possibility' as the reason why you actually think it's stupid.

    You're fine to have that opinion, I'm simply pointing out that your reasons aren't universally applicable as 'lore that prevents Dragons from being playable as a class or race.'

    There are very possible lore driven solutions to the sterility problem. Nothing in the lore says the sterility problem is incurable either, right? You're just as much assuming that it is incurable even though there is nothing to suggest that it is. Just because a cure has not been found does not mean a cure does not exist, right?
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-01-27 at 11:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Since Arthas used Frostmourne, which is a Runeblade, and Frostmourne's power eminates from those runes, that made him a Runemaster by default.

  15. #55
    The reproduction issues can be solved quite easily actually. Dragons could just be like komodo dragons irl that can reproduce through parthenogenesis. You could also have a Game of Thrones situation where eggs can lay dormant for thousands of years and still hatch under the right (fiery) conditions.


  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Many of us think Dragon Isles is a likely location for the next expansion. I've seen playable Dragons been speculated to be both a race or class. What would you prefer to see?

    Dragons as a Class:

    1. Dragon Knights - Essentially a fire-based Frost DK. ESO has a Dragon Knight so you can see how they are set up for a general idea.
    2. Dragonsworn - Something with 3-4 specs based on different dragonflights. Emerald for DPS, Red for Healing, Blue for DPS, Black for Tanking or something. Could also be a covenant style system.

    Dragons as a Race:

    Basically we'd pick a mortal form from the existing races and have additional cosmetics like DH's have horns and stuff. Then have a flying mount dragon form.

    My personal opinion: I think Dragon Knights can essentially just be a skin for Death Knights. Could have something with Bolvar turning your spell effects red like Warlock Green Fire. Dragonsworn might be neat but I don't want another covenant system at all. It would have to be a perma/evergreen system for me to want it.

    The playable Dragons seem like a better option. Though personally, I would much, much rather a more Drakanoid style race than just having a humanoid form and occasionally being able to fly around as a dragon.
    Race. There is no Dragon class.
    Blizzard already had a concept for one:


    Quote Originally Posted by ercarp View Post
    Why not both? Demon hunters were essentially a race and a class when you think about it.
    Demon Hunter is a class. Night elves are the race. Two separate things. Not added together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    it would be bizarre for a dragon to pick up a sword and be a warrior, or drop totems like a shaman
    Not if you're playing as a humanoid draconic race.

  17. #57
    Scarab Lord Boricha's Avatar
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    Race could be cool. As a class... it just sounds like more class balancing problems to me, but I know a lot of people would love it. The class concept doesn't interest me personally.

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