EoA 10.0 LEAK

[Apatrida]

from all the leaks this sounds the most reasonable and probable so far

[Soulwind]

from all the leaks this sounds the most reasonable and probable so far

If EoA stands for Dreagonflaight, I guess.

[Mace]

Asking the elements for help instead of demanding and dominating them, existing in harmony with the elements, soothing the elements instead of enraging them. Respecting them.

By observation ? or by lore?

You see like most classes, we play, they represent a host of disciplines in the lore.

Do Tidesages ask the elements for help? What about twilight cultists? or mages? or dark shaman ? they aren't asking.. druids also ask elements for help, - does that make them shaman?

so how can you premise of asking elements instead of demanding or dominating be correct? It obviously isn't?

Shaman are also shown to be a lot of things, not all of them are called shaman, but the shaman class represents them. So in order to have the shaman class playable, what you do must fall somewhere along what the class represents . Stormhammers, Tidesages, Dark iron flame caster Thermatauges show that you don't have to do in lore everything shaman class does to qualify. In fact, a Farseer is a shaman, but he doesn't use elements to command elemental powers or enhance his melee. A chieftain with talent can ask elemental help to enhance him, but he doesn't' commune with ancestral spirits, use water and spirit to heal, nor is he able to command lava, fire, earth a s pure energy blasts through his elemental. yet he is still a shaman by class?


So if you have expertise that focuses on wielding any element or all of them, whether that knowledge comes from your study of arcane magic, close contact with the elements or using the void, then you touch the shaman class and are in it's domain if that is your primary focus, add to that if you can summon elementals too.


So for a race that can be a mage , how does that separate them from a shaman? The distinction actually imo, is not in the lore but rather in the class, you should be able to have a mage or mage -priest combo (like the Tidesage) or mage-druid combo or void-mage user that masters in the elements actually be referred to as a shaman because well dealing with elements and elementals are their speciality - it's just that none magical races have gotten to do this through communion with elemental spirits, it's only way they could use that power, whiles magical races do it through magical knowledge (otherwise known as arcane studies).

A person that qualifies as a mage can likely do both, which is why you can have a person that is a mage in lore but is a shaman in class - because their speciality is the elements, because this is the requirement for the shaman class - they could be whatever, they could be just a void user, or a mage-druid or a mage-priest combo or a spirit walker that talks with spirits and gets the spirits to lend them their power. Druids can effectively do that, does that make them shaman? But if through his druidic knowledge he specialises in dealing with elemental spirits, while a druid, isn't he better off designated the shaman playable class - since he would have a range of abilities that isn't reflected best in the druid class even though he can do druid things?


That is the problem with playable classes - they aren't exact definitions of in lore classes, just broad over ranges - the specific abilities you get are more for gameplay purposes than the limitation for a definition of the actual profession in the lore.


As such, if, this is how they make classes available, then they were absolutely correct to make the mage-priest Tidesage a shaman for playable purposes - because the focus of their mage and priestly knowledge is centred around elemental spirits and harnessing the elements even though they do that through magic or not.

So a mage-druid night elf who's special unit focuses on elemental manipulation, is actually better represented through the shaman class than it is through either the druid or mage class.. this I can follow. Same for a mage-void user or a mage-priest blood elf user.

[Tanaria]

SNIP.

So when can we get Gnome Shamans, Worgen Shamans, Forsaken Shamans and Lightforged Shamans?

Since these can all be Mages and Forsaken actually fit the same bill you have given to the Void Elves, only the Forsaken can weave the shadows and not fall to madness due to being undead.
Indeed, could the Forsaken actually make some of the most formidable Arcane-Void Shamans?

[Mace]

SNIP

You can do what you want. Go ahead and explain your Forsaken arcane-void shaman and why they should have them playable. You're not new to what I've been saying and I've given ample descriptions and reasoning for the elves.

Every race can be come every class, but they don't have to ahve the same reasons or routes. Try to explain why your playable forsaken as sshaman happen, and how - like I've explained for each elf group even giving an explanation of what they use to do it and give a scenario as to the formation of a large enough group that specialises in this area or came to handle the elements. You can se the route i took for the elves, but maybe explain why forsaken would be doing that, or you can use other routes like the route similar to the orcs or one similar to how the wildhammers do.. but show where the connection comes from .

[Tanaria]

You can do what you want. Go ahead and explain your Forsaken arcane-void shaman and why they should have them playable. You're not new to what I've been saying and I've given ample descriptions and reasoning for the elves.

Every race can be come every class, but they don't have to ahve the same reasons or routes. Try to explain why your playable forsaken as sshaman happen, and how - like I've explained for each elf group even giving an explanation of what they use to do it and give a scenario as to the formation of a large enough group that specialises in this area or came to handle the elements. You can se the route i took for the elves, but maybe explain why forsaken would be doing that, or you can use other routes like the route similar to the orcs or one similar to how the wildhammers do.. but show where the connection comes from .

Forsaken Shamans draw exactly from the Void Elf Shaman idea that you love so much...only with Forsaken being deceased, they don't heed the torments of the void whispers, so they can call upon powerful Arcane and Void magics and probably lead in both areas. I'd say - these Shamans overtake the Elves simply because they have no issues with dealing with any form of corruption magic.

And I shouldn't need to explain them - you've said anything a Shaman can do, can be done by a Mage - so Forsaken, Gnomes, Lightforged, Worgen - these all need to be added since they all make powerful Mages, therefore can all be Shamans.

[Mace]

Forsaken Shamans draw exactly from the Void Elf Shaman idea that you love so much...only with Forsaken being deceased, they don't heed the torments of the void whispers, so they can call upon powerful Arcane and Void magics and probably lead in both areas.

And I shouldn't need to explain them - you've said anything a Shaman can do, can be done by a Mage - so Forsaken, Gnomes, Lightforged, Worgen - these all need to be added since they all make powerful Mages, therefore can all be Shamans.

I'm not suggesting them, you are, so you provide the reasons - i helped you with some guidelines. Unless this is off course some red herring exercise done for futility and frustration because you still haven't understood what I'm trying to say, and how and why it works because you haven't bothered to try to actually read and understand it.

You want Forsaken shaman in the way I explained it for the elves.. then knock yourself out, I didn't say you can't have them - I'm just saying do a good job explaining them when you do.

Still don't understand what I was trying to say? Then, slowly, read and make an effort to understand - rather than arrogantly dismiss it because it doesn't immediately make sense to you, then hop on here churning out replies that clearly show you haven't understood.

[Tanaria]

I'm not suggesting them, you are, so you provide the reasons - i helped you with some guidelines. Unless this is off course some red herring exercise done for futility and frustration because you still haven't understood what I'm trying to say, and how and why it works because you haven't bothered to try to actually read and understand it.

You want Forsaken shaman in the way I explained it for the elves.. then knock yourself out, I didn't say you can't have them - I'm just saying do a good job explaining them when you do.

Still don't understand what I was trying to say? Then, slowly, read and make an effort to understand - rather than arrogantly dismiss it because it doesn't immediately make sense to you, then hop on here churning out replies that clearly show you haven't understood.

I did a good job of explaining them.

Forsaken are the best ones for this new line of Shamanism, because they don't falter to corruption like the Elves (especially the night elves.)
Void - no affect
Arcane - no affect

So, the new Forsaken Shamans, whom were also former Kirin Tor Archmages, lead this new organisation of Arcane Shamans with the Elves being below them.

[Mace]

Try to understand.

[Tanaria]

Try to understand.

Likewise.
/10 chars

[Mace]

I did a good job of explaining them.

good for you. you do'nt need my approval or acceptance.

Forsaken are the best ones for this new line of Shamanism, because they don't falter to corruption like the Elves (especially the night elves.)
Void - no affect
Arcane - no affect

So, the new Forsaken Shamans, whom were also former Kirin Tor Archmages, lead this new organisation of Arcane Shamans with the Elves being below them.

Not sure what "faltering to corruption" has to do with it or how it has ever stopped elves from using magic - including elves who haven't faltered to corruption.

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Likewise.
/10 chars

OH I understand. I understand you are not understanding what I'm saying, you still don't get it.

[Tanaria]

Not sure what "faltering to corruption" has to do with it or how it has ever stopped elves from using magic - including elves who haven't faltered to corruption.
.

Learn2ElfLore

- - - Updated - - -

OH I understand. I understand you are not understanding what I'm saying, you still don't get it.

Maybe if you came up with good ideas we'd understand you?

Like mine - clearly a good idea and since Shaman is a Horde class by tradition, makes perfect sense for Forsaken to lead this new branch of arcane shamanism.

[cone of cold]

Every race can be come every class

That is not correct.

[Mace]

Learn2ElfLore

What you are saying doesn't makes ense to me, so explain how it connects to what you said. So I udnerstand. DO you think I write essays for nothing? I go out of my way to explain.

Maybe if you came up with good ideas we'd understand you?

So that was the point? you're trying to prove this isn't a good idea to me? When you don't even understand what I'm trying to say? you're being disingenuous. You don't want forsaken shaman at all, you've just totally missed what I'm saying and tried to use them to make a point.

You're waiting your time, I told you a few pages back that forsaken shaman were possible this way or shouldbe, I also told you why I would only use that route for elves. You dind't get it.

You snip when you quote, and when you write, you demonstrate you haven't gotten what I've said. I suspect it's because you don't caret o or want to. If you can't be bothered to try to understand what you are reading, then don't quote it. I kept responding to you out of some weird sense of compassion, but are you just being lazy Tanaria? I wonder. Over and over again despite several attempts to explain to you, you just skim, you've already made up your mind what you think, so explaining it makes no different, you won't read it. This is the type of stubborn, arrogant and lazy behaviour I have seen in others, I know it well too for I have been that way too. I wish someone had actually taken the time to write essays to help me understand their point and discuss with me the things I wasn't seeing.

This is what I am trying to with you, but you're not asking the right questions, and showing me you either haven't read it properly, or not fully understood it. Maybe you aren't arrogant and lazy, but just don't like the thought of it, either way whatever the motivation, it is causing you not to see and understand what is written so it's pointless discussing with you any further sadly.

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That is not correct.

In context: Every race can be made to play every single class.

[Tanaria]

What you are saying doesn't makes ense to me, so explain how it connects to what you said. So I udnerstand. DO you think I write essays for nothing? I go out of my way to explain.



So that was the point? you're trying to prove this isn't a good idea to me? When you don't even understand what I'm trying to say? you're being disingenuous. You don't want forsaken shaman at all, you've just totally missed what I'm saying and tried to use them to make a point.

You're waiting your time, I told you a few pages back that forsaken shaman were possible this way or shouldbe, I also told you why I would only use that route for elves. You dind't get it.

You snip when you quote, and when you write, you demonstrate you haven't gotten what I've said. I suspect it's because you don't caret o or want to. If you can't be bothered to try to understand what you are reading, then don't quote it. I kept responding to you out of some weird sense of compassion, but are you just being lazy Tanaria? I wonder. Over and over again despite several attempts to explain to you, you just skim, you've already made up your mind what you think, so explaining it makes no different, you won't read it. This is the type of stubborn, arrogant and lazy behaviour I have seen in others, I know it well too for I have been that way too. I wish someone had actually taken the time to write essays to help me understand their point and discuss with me the things I wasn't seeing.

This is what I am trying to with you, but you're not asking the right questions, and showing me you either haven't read it properly, or not fully understood it. Maybe you aren't arrogant and lazy, but just don't like the thought of it, either way whatever the motivation, it is causing you not to see and understand what is written so it's pointless discussing with you any further sadly.

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe...playable elf shamans just aren't a thing, have never been a thing and just not what the playerbase needs.

Would you be feeling this frustration if you just said "you know what, it's actually not a great idea, Elf Shamans. Let's just stick to the regular version of Shamanism where, in Legion, we went around recruiting the Elemental Lords from the Plane." You can't keep clinging onto Kul'Tiran Shamans, who use the element of Water, to try and justify including some odd nonsense about the Arcane.
That's like saying that the Mana Forges made by the Sunfury Blood Elves are also somehow connected to Shamanism, because they were pumping Arcane energy into the Twisting Nether. Now, don't get arrogant with your "Oh mentioning something that has no relevance.." No because everyone would read this and see that what I'm saying is relevant to what is being stated.

[Mace]

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe...playable elf shamans just aren't a thing, have never been a thing and just not what the playerbase needs.

Have I written this because playable elf shaman are a thing? Or have always been a thing? Have I written about them or any other class combo because it's what the playerbase needs?

Look, you are free to spend your time writing things that you feel the playerbase needs or things that your feel are a thing or have always been. I am free and will continue to be free to write the things I want as a suggestion. Satisfied?

Would you be feeling this frustration if you just said "you know what, it's actually not a great idea, Elf Shamans. Let's just stick to the regular version of Shamanism where, in Legion, we went around recruiting the Elemental Lords from the Plane." You can't keep clinging onto Kul'Tiran Shamans, who use the element of Water, to try and justify including some odd nonsense about the Arcane.

I would be lying if I had said. It is not how I feel at all, I've written essays on why. I'd like to see more race-class combos - so I'm free to suggest them. I'd like them to have lore and be done in a way that fits a class, so I am also free to suggest ways i think that can happen. I'm good with what I've suggested. Thanks.

That's like saying that the Mana Forges made by the Sunfury Blood Elves are also somehow connected to Shamanism, because they were pumping Arcane energy into the Twisting Nether. Now, don't get arrogant with your "Oh mentioning something that has no relevance.."

No, it's not like that at all and you need to follow the argument correct to understand what I'm saying and then perhaps raise a sensible objection. You won't get there by just skimming through thinking you have the jist of the idea and try to make an argument against it.

No because everyone would read this and see that what I'm saying is relevant to what is being stated.

Everyone? You grossly over esetimate and don't seemed to have followed the response closely either sadly. Or you would have seen that actually a number of people were fine with it and seemed to get it straight away, nah man, it's that's just you Tanni,, even the Syegfryed guy seemed to understand better, he didn't like it and felt that only races that begged the elements into partnership could be shaman - I disagreed that was the necessary criteria as I told him clearly. Like I said repeatedly before, and I'm saying again...for the playable shaman class, I think it is acceptable to be able to skilfully use the elements and deal with elementals. And then went to show how elven arcane with priestly or druidic or void knowledge can effectively combine to produce the same things in principle therefore it would be acceptable to me.

Now for him, that may not be acceptable, because for him a shaman has to be exactly like the orcs - but he's not being realistic, because dwarven stormhammers, dark iron dwarf shaman, Kul'tiran shaman and goblin shaman are not like that. I clearly lay out the reasons for why I disagree, and why I am willing to accept this route as acceptable for shaman.

I owe him or you no explanation, none, if I am happy with dogs jumping in water as qualifying as shaman, then that's enough for me, and I'm happy with that, who are you to argue with me on that? Dogs playing in water may not be reasonable qualification , that's a different argument - but he and you (when you jumped in) are trying to argue with being happy with accepting a different criteria as - you have a problem with me having an opinion - you can't argue against a person's desire nor control it even if you don't like it or agree with it.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

Their are only 2 classes for 3 of the Elves that make sense right now and Shaman isn't one of them.

Night Elf Paladin - should have happened in 8.1, but didn't.
Void Elf Demon Hunter - should happen in the next expansion.
Nightborne Demon Hunter - should happen in the next expansion.

Blood Elves get nothing - they already get an additional questline, plus plate armor set.

[LordSaryn]

Well, we do already have Lightforged Draenei Shadow Priests, so... DD

[Tanaria]

Well, we do already have Lightforged Draenei Shadow Priests, so... DD

Just like Night Elf Holy Light Priests.

This isn't a case of new race/class combos like Elf Shamans - Blizzard should add class skins.

[CasualVader]

Having playable races having all classes isn't the same as the said race having a huge community of that said class.

Honestly I am all open towards opening up all races for all classes exception being Demon Hunter due to we being ''the Champion'' and I do not see our limits being the same as the race community itself in lore.

But I am also fine with starting to open up more Race/Class combos instead of opening all of them.