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  1. #81
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Seals were never a class mechanic, holy power is…
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  2. #82
    Seals are good, yes. Cataclysm seals especially, as you actively switched between them and used certain ones depending on the situation. Full on AoE? Hit the correct seal. Just a couple? Use the specialized seal for that! Short term single target? Just use the small aoe one, as it'll deal more damage than the DoT seal. Single target? Obviously, the DoT seal. This isn't even getting into how Seal of Blood could've been implemented to augment your other seals, kind of like aura mastery but for ret 'n seals. Force the paladin to sacrifice their life for better DPS, but at the expense of increasingly higher health costs. It's a cooler mechanic than rogues in plate - aka, holy power.

    Holy power is a neat mechanic, but unfortunately whoever had the design lead for Paladin really misunderstood that it was a supplemental resource, not a combo point simulator. So now it's a glorified holy combat rogue in plate. You have to use holy power constantly, your entire rotation revolves around the system, and it feels completely restrictive and goes against what Paladin WAS supposed to be, a hybrid / versatile class. If they fix that, Ret will get immensely more enjoyable for what it was originally intended to be.

    Druid suffered something similar to this, but they've gotten better over the years to at least have some variety in their other forms. Meanwhile Ret is just... Yeah.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    not a combo point simulator. So now it's a glorified holy combat rogue in plate.
    Combo points: spent all at once; generation based on energy
    Holy Power: spent in fixed intervals; generation based on multiple short CD abilities

    But you fill up bubbles and then empty them so it's the same, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    You have to use holy power constantly, your entire rotation revolves around the system, and it feels completely restrictive and goes against what Paladin WAS supposed to be, a hybrid / versatile class.
    "Hybrid" has been a nonexistent/meaningless category for HOW many expansions now?
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  4. #84
    God no. Seals were atrocious. Judgement consuming your seal so you have to use extra GCDs just to get more than white dmg? Hell no. Seals as an idea are awesome, but the original system was tragic for gameplay.

  5. #85
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    anything is better than this rogue combo points system that blizz shoved in our throats
    seals were more unique aspect, not to mention i loved their visuals too, something that don't exist anymore

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Combo points: spent all at once; generation based on energy
    Holy Power: spent in fixed intervals; generation based on multiple short CD abilities
    with current mana system for dps do u find difference between energy and mana? mana bar is almost useless for all mana dps classes
    and not all rogue abilities use all combo points too, they are more similar than u think
    If u want to be accurate holy combo points was superior to rogue combo points (ironic) until they improved rogue combo points, it still doesn't change that rogue started that system and we are mimicking them, seals at least was unique purely paladin system
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Yeah I think this is true for many other classes as well. The older design being better, that is.
    But holly power is a thing to keep Paladins in check from destroying world balance, if they get rid of holy power then its bound to return paladin into no-damage zone.... sweet TBC times "hey pal,Buff me, BUFF ME NOW!".
    Quote Originally Posted by Varx View Post
    This is a question for you Tinker haters out there.
    I already know that Tinker is the most probable class for 10.0, so probable that's it's practically a certainty.
    Regardless, since many of you disagree, what then is the most realistic class to be added for 10.0.
    Try to be neutral about it, no biasis.Maybe this exercise will help you see the light.

  7. #87
    Seals from Classic / TBC aren't fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by KayRule View Post
    I'm sorry, the writing is on the wall. Tinker is coming. You can either get over yourself and stop crying about them not including your dream OC class concepts invented from thin air and enjoy the eventual reveal, or keep crying for another expansion.

  8. #88
    Bloodsail Admiral froschhure's Avatar
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    Yes indeed
    love WoWarcraft

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    with current mana system for dps do u find difference between energy and mana? mana bar is almost useless for all mana dps classes
    Mana bar: useless in terms of DPS (aside from Arcane).
    Energy bar: extremely impactful since it determines the pace of rotation.

    Of course there is a difference...what even are you trying to get at?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    and not all rogue abilities use all combo points too, they are more similar than u think
    Name a rogue ability that only spends a fixed amount of combo points instead of all of them.
    Last edited by Gestopft; 2022-05-29 at 04:54 PM.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

  10. #90
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestopft View Post
    Name a rogue ability that only spends a fixed amount of combo points instead of all of them.
    all of them with a talent they introduced that increase combo points and make u store 2 of them (unless it was removed, last time i played rogue was in legion), exact same way as holy power (ironic)
    And still my point was combo point system was rogue first, then blizz gave it to many classes like pally, heck monk current system is also combo point (the old black/white one was way better, at least u feel different playing monk)
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    all of them with a talent they introduced that increase combo points and make u store 2 of them (unless it was removed, last time i played rogue was in legion), exact same way as holy power (ironic)
    And still my point was combo point system was rogue first, then blizz gave it to many classes like pally, heck monk current system is also combo point (the old black/white one was way better, at least u feel different playing monk)
    Doesn't exist.
    There's one that increases the cap to 6, but you still spend all available points.

    And Monk, Pala, WL, old SP, Arcane Mage, Enh Shaman are all based around building points but still play nothing like a rogue. Even WW, which uses energy, has an entirely different gameplay concept than a rogue.
    Last edited by LordVargK; 2022-06-06 at 08:23 AM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    all of them with a talent they introduced that increase combo points and make u store 2 of them (unless it was removed, last time i played rogue was in legion), exact same way as holy power (ironic)
    That was actually the nerfed version of the talent from WoD, but in any case it no longer exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    And still my point was combo point system was rogue first, then blizz gave it to many classes like pally, heck monk current system is also combo point (the old black/white one was way better, at least u feel different playing monk)
    It's really, really easy to make resource systems seem like they're the same if you're only doing a surface level comparison. Lots of rotations are based on building and spending, even some that don't have circles to fill up and empty. The considerations that go into performing the rotations are different, though, which is why the surface similarities break down upon closer analysis.
    "We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
    -Louis Brandeis

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