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  1. #1

    Question What are the best ways to make the Alliance more popular and interesting?

    One of the major complaints about players regarding the Alliance - and why they favored the Horde, even back in the original game - was the Alliance seemed too bland or uninteresting, while the Horde was much more nuanced and complicated.

    For example, many Horde players insist that lots of fantasy games, especially back then, did not allow you play as orcs, trolls or tauren, which was why they felt the Horde in World of Warcraft was so appealing and unique in that regard, the orcs were not simply rampaging monsters, but a conflicted people with an ancient culture and a proud history who struggled with their identity while fighting for survival.

    While Stormwind humans were simply the default option for beginner players, the same old human protagonists who fought against monstrous-looking invaders, that were used over and over in most every fantasy franchise. The "traditional" Alliance races of humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves simply seemed much less fascinating and engaging to some people than the opposing races.

    I can understand this, to some extent, having an interest in both factions lore-wise - even in Battle for Azeroth, Kul Tiras was a beautiful place, but Zandalar honestly seemed much richer and more deeply fleshed out, and much more original, and far superior even to most of the previous Horde cities. The playable Kul Tirans were basically somewhat more obese humans with a modified Gilnean accent (which is even more confusing, as Jaina, her brothers, her parents, Brother Pike, Lady Waycrest, most of the major Kul Tiran characters were portrayed as in fact fairly slender and thin human characters, so I don't know what they were trying to get at there).

    Regarding the other Alliance races:
    - The dwarves seemed too generic and even among most Alliance players never seemed that popular. The ever-loyal short human sidekicks with a weird accent.

    - The night elves I think were the most interesting part of the Alliance, but their story has been heavily diluted since the Third War, and always seem extremely reliant on the assistance of the other Alliance kingdoms, especially Stormwind. Cenarius no longer cares about them and is friendly to the Horde, most of the Wild Gods are neutral; Nordrassil was nearly destroyed; their immortality is gone; the Temple of Elune and their capital Darnassus itself are both gone; Elune has lost most of her mysterious nature and is the sister of this newly introduced afterlife character, and did nothing to save their people; their race is now all but extinct. They've lost Teldrassil, and much of Darkshore and Ashenvale, and most of their civilian and military forces, and the Horde has them vastly outnumbered and surrounded on all sides.

    Look at Wolfheart - in which even Tyrande was not able to help win the battle for the night elves, but Varian Wrynn came charging in at the last moment and saved them - or Mists of Pandaria, in which Varian taught Tyrande lessons in patience against the Horde. Some interesting elements such as the Highborne introduced in the Cataclysm, or the Wardens and demon hunters, seem to be almost never utilized in-game or heavily explored either.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...nowledge_seen/

    - The gnomes, well...they are interesting, but I think most Alliance and Horde players are divided between those who intensely love them and those who intensely despise them. They also seem to be only in a background supporting role, Gelbin's appearance during that Zandalar cinematic was I think one of the few major appearances of gnome involvement, and they have yet to appear in any major expansion cinematic.

    - The draenei also seemed to have been largely skimmed over with the exception of Legion (and I guess Draenor, but those draenei are now fanatics, and that world is long since lost, so I'm not sure if that still counts). Velen and most draenei characters had pretty much no role in Battle for Azeroth (Velen's greatest role was caring for refugees in Elegy), not showing up even for Battle for Darkshore; the Exodar itself was not mentioned whatsoever throughout the expansion and seemingly forgotten by both factions.

    - The worgen provided an interesting twist, but they seem to be heavily ignored also after Cataclysm, with the exception of Genn Greymane, the token advisor at Anduin's side - their lands are STILL lost to them, so it's not like worgen players have much to look forward to either.

    - The Tushui Pandaren other than Aysa's brief and stationary appearances with other Alliance leaders are not mentioned either.

    - The Kingdom of Stromgarde seemed to have been rebuilt, but again, we saw nothing of this reflected in-game or in that novel.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._war/?sort=new

    Even the new allied races, such as the Lightforged and void elves, don't really seem to be expounded too much, just a couple new fodder NPCs for Horde players during Faction Assaults perhaps, but not much more. For example, why is the Vindicaar entirely absent from the Fourth War, and how did the void elf population grow significantly in such a short period of time?

    How do most Stormwind humans view the Kul Tirans, positively or negatively, and how do most Alliance races actually regard the dark iron dwarves and mechagnomes? Why are there next to no interactions between any of those allied races themselves? Why can't most Alliance players visit 3 of 5 Allied race zones? In fairness, the Horde has full and constant access to the entirety of Highmountain and Suramar, in addition to all of Zandalar, and the only inaccessible zone for most Horde players is the time-displaced Draenor for the Mag'har orcs.

    Even during Battle for Azeroth - the Horde players at Level 120 still heavily outnumbered the Alliance players, both in guilds and individually, leading to a major gameplay imbalance between the two factions. Are there any ways to better address this to even the playing ground perhaps - and perhaps to improve and diversify the Alliance in general, such that it might appeal more broadly and deeply to most players?
    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-05-31 at 07:55 AM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  2. #2
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    I would say the best way to make the Alliance more popular and interesting would be to give them some strong internal drama and conflict that is reflected in the overarching story-arc for a given expansion. An example that's been brought up many times now in this subforum would be to have Turalyon's regency cause a leadership crisis within the Alliance - have popular support for Anduin at a low ebb (due to his actions as the Jailer's puppet in Shadowlands), and perhaps have even Anduin unsure if he should take up the mantle of High King once more. Reflect this central schism in the narrative as a whole, with the Alliance having internalized factionalization as different groups rally behind Turalyon and Alleria or Anduin as their preferred leaders, perhaps regardless of how any of those figures feel about the situation.

    It would also be an interesting reversal and contrast to see the Horde's leadership solidify under this new Council approach, whereas the traditionally staid and unchanging Alliance undergoes internal conflict and a degree of breakdown as its client-states are unsure about which direction they should take. Kind of an exchange of roles, and gives the Alliance a chance to be the primary mover and conflict-generator of a given story.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  3. #3
    i think the problem is with the horde alliance difference is choice to be honest horde have so many unique races with there own rich lore from the nomadic cows to the planet refugee orcs to the crafty ferengi like goblins to the noble blood elves to the creepy undead

    the alliance have tiny humans slightly taller humans normal humans dark humans with pointy ears and space goats... and to add to that most of the lore is tangled together between different races and even the doggys didnt help as they had the same sort of civilization as the dwarfs and humans

  4. #4
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    - Ignoring their playerbase.


    The rest, you need to basically go back to the way factions worked before mop, but that is hard to do when the writers put themselves into a corner. Alliance should be trying by all means get lordaeron and guilneas back, as well revive the other lost human kingdoms, Tyrande and malfurion need to die and be replaced by people of action, game should be once again trade of blows and not peace and renewal or whatever bs danuser want to shove n the narrative

  5. #5
    The answer is simple: Give more spotlight to Alleria and the Ren'dorei.

    Notice how most of the theories about the Alliance's future in the last years always involve Alleria and the Ren'dorei in some ways.

    It is clear that people know Alleria and the Ren'dorei are important and can carry the Alliance, the problem is that Blizzard doesn't. That's why they completely and criminally omitted them from Patch 8.3, in favour of Anduin's boyfriend.

    The Ren'dorei have it all. Beauty, elegance, wisdom, intelligence, power, a brooding and scheming nature, ruthlessness, pragmatism, a place in the storyline (they are not meme races like the dwarves and gnomes, it's easy to see how they can be relevant in this storyline). But above all else, they appeal to the the largest fanbase of every fantasy game, the people who like ELVES (I am part of that "broad" fanbase btw). All they need is spotlight.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2022-02-11 at 05:54 PM.

  6. #6
    The Patient Meow's Avatar
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    Make the Alliance great again. Blizzard should make the Alliance bigger, better, and stronger.

  7. #7
    We are all going to say more or less the same thing. The alliance has boring races that are in the end just "human".

    Blizzard has spent the entire history of WoW doing the impossible to make the alliance more and more boring and it is succeeding.

    So almost every race in the Alliance has to be rewritten from scratch. Or in the best of cases (The Kaldorei and Dranei) discard all their relations with the alliance.


    The best thing would be to DESTROY everything that belongs to the ALLIANCE or leave it alone as a human. That when you have a Kaldoreis zone it is only Kaldorei and so with each race. Maybe if they do this for say 5 expansions they'll fix the problem.
    Last edited by geco; 2022-02-11 at 06:42 PM.

  8. #8
    Honestly I kind of hope they wrap up the plot in the next XPAC and move onto a new Warcraft game. Create Warcraft 4, taking place in a later time period to set the stage for WoW 2. Warcraft is a magical world so there doesn't need to be significant technological progress.

    Currently WoW has too much power creep in the plot.

    Plus if they changed the time period they could potentially create new factions/shuffle them.

  9. #9
    Hire people who actually like Alliance. Make clear to existing employees that there are two halves of the customer base, and losing one half puts their jobs at risk.

  10. #10
    make them a shade of grey instead of boring lawful good

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Get Lightforged and Void elves killing each other while Dwarves take over the Alliance
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    As someone who has mostly only played Horde, push the humans into the back for a while.

  13. #13
    Stop using it as Horde’s punching bag every next expansion. Thats about it, really.

    When you supposed to “really” care about a faction that neither proactive nor competent… yeah, what are you supposed to be proud of? Anduin’s blondness and blandness?
    Last edited by VladlTutushkin; 2022-02-11 at 08:04 PM.

  14. #14
    Revert the humans and dwarves to Vanilla characterization. Moira through her now teenage son who has a claim on rulership over all dwarves takes a prominent role in resuming the imperial mandate from Vanilla. Humans, after the end of a war with few dividends ending in a white peace have Anduin return but be unable to resume his duties properly due to his trauma. Turalyon and the House of Nobles are instead the main groups who politick within the mess. The Night Elves, despite Tyrande's change of heart still do not follow the treaty. The throughline of all these things is that it allows for the Alliance to have internal dynamics, both within the races and between them rather than entropically circling around Anduin.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    - Ignoring their playerbase.


    The rest, you need to basically go back to the way factions worked before mop, but that is hard to do when the writers put themselves into a corner. Alliance should be trying by all means get lordaeron and guilneas back, as well revive the other lost human kingdoms, Tyrande and malfurion need to die and be replaced by people of action, game should be once again trade of blows and not peace and renewal or whatever bs danuser want to shove n the narrative
    Well too late for that. They pretty much said that faction war will be a thing of the past as reflected by crossfaction raiding and groups. Plus they axed night elven racial fantasy and castrated the race to force this unrealistic peace… too much investment to turn things back around.

  16. #16
    Epic! Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I would say the best way to make the Alliance more popular and interesting would be to give them some strong internal drama and conflict that is reflected in the overarching story-arc for a given expansion. An example that's been brought up many times now in this subforum would be to have Turalyon's regency cause a leadership crisis within the Alliance - have popular support for Anduin at a low ebb (due to his actions as the Jailer's puppet in Shadowlands), and perhaps have even Anduin unsure if he should take up the mantle of High King once more. Reflect this central schism in the narrative as a whole, with the Alliance having internalized factionalization as different groups rally behind Turalyon and Alleria or Anduin as their preferred leaders, perhaps regardless of how any of those figures feel about the situation.

    It would also be an interesting reversal and contrast to see the Horde's leadership solidify under this new Council approach, whereas the traditionally staid and unchanging Alliance undergoes internal conflict and a degree of breakdown as its client-states are unsure about which direction they should take. Kind of an exchange of roles, and gives the Alliance a chance to be the primary mover and conflict-generator of a given story.
    This is an excellent take and one I would enjoy seeing in-game. After all, no conflict makes for boring stories.
    But I also agree with Horde having more variety. Dwarves and Gnomes are just small humans and tiny humans with just varying grades of technology. They look and behave too similar and to many people, me included, that makes them boring.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakheth View Post
    This is an excellent take and one I would enjoy seeing in-game. After all, no conflict makes for boring stories.
    But I also agree with Horde having more variety. Dwarves and Gnomes are just small humans and tiny humans with just varying grades of technology. They look and behave too similar and to many people, me included, that makes them boring.
    70% of the Horde are blood elves, so i doubt that its the “human looking races” thats the problem. Its writers complete disregard fir the faction and sometimes even direct malice.

  18. #18
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakheth View Post
    This is an excellent take and one I would enjoy seeing in-game. After all, no conflict makes for boring stories.
    But I also agree with Horde having more variety. Dwarves and Gnomes are just small humans and tiny humans with just varying grades of technology. They look and behave too similar and to many people, me included, that makes them boring.
    I think it would be really cool, for example, to have the Lightforged Draenei perhaps attempt to renew conflict with the Horde in a smaller-scale skirmish in an attempt to push for Turalyon to become the High King - only to have Anduin's supporters and Turalyon himself rebuff them, trying to keep the tenuous peace within the faction. From this faultline, you could have all manner of long-simmering feuds kind of explode. These zealous Draenei could even join with more radical elements within the Kaldorei in baying for vengeance, creating all manner of dramatic tension that needs to be dealt with. You can have similar shake-ups within the Kaldorei, too; with elements who are deeply dissatisfied with the outcome of Tyrande's jaunt into the Shadowlands and wish for a more direct and possibly bloody form of restitution for the loss of Teldrassil.

    None of this need erupt into open warfare or factions conflict once more, but it would be a nice way of opening the Alliance up to more dramatic tension, and perhaps addressing how its different client races view the current status quo. You could explore how the Dwarves are getting along with integrating the Dark Irons into the ranks, given their long-standing acrimony. The Draenei of the Exodar and Velen could be forced to deal with their more militant cousins among the Lightforged. The Worgen could grapple with their loyalties as concerns the Kaldorei and Stormwind, and the Gnomes could be running into issues with their Mechagnome kin, who perhaps have their own ideas about how a unified New Gnomeragan ought to take shape. The Alliance offers up plenty of grist for good, dramatic stories if you just had some kind of catalyzing agent to open up all those proverbial boxes - and a succession crisis offers up just the right opportunity to bring much of it to the fore.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Pheraz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Get Lightforged and Void elves killing each other while Dwarves take over the Alliance
    Not the worst idea really.

    The alliance sickens of the human reign. Anyone would be cooler. Really ANYONE. Even gnomes. This whole lion king brim bam bummm humannnnzzzzz is sooooo annoying. Alliance has so many cool races. And Ironforge main focus is actually the only thing I miss from vanilla times lol!
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - My personal Kaldorei army <3 Plus lots of voidy high elves <3

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    We are all going to say more or less the same thing. The alliance has boring races that are in the end just "human".
    The funny thing is humanity can be such an interesting thing to write about. Humans are such a varied crazy hypocritical complicated bunch. Heck its why every non-human race is heavily inspired by some human culture.

    But warcraft has some weird really surface level view of humanity as the 'heroic good guys' who live in white stoned structures of oddly shaped blocks. Who's religion is some vauge belief that the light is good (even the draenei have a more interesting relationship with the light) and who the balance of power and one's place in the cosmos is entirely irrelevant.

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