What are the best ways to make the Alliance more popular and interesting?

[VladlTutushkin]

If anything, the only bootlicker in the Alliance side is High King Gary Stu, and even that is arguable. The rest of the Alliance cast aren't bootlickers, but rather suffer from plot-induced amnesia - which is also #@$&ty, don't get me wrong, but still different from bootlicking.

Besides, if the rumours are true, Our Treasure will be taking a sort of sabbatical year in the SL during 10.0, so the Alliance will finally be free from that burden, if only temporarily. I only wish we Hordies could say the same about Baine the human footstool and Thrall Sue.

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Really? I didn't know that Sylv had remained Warchief two expacs after Teldrassil. Man, those psychic powers of yours...

Her “crusade” started in Cata, where she was almost in competition with Garrosh on “who will commit more war crimes” and she won by a large margin. Also Garrosh was not dead until WoD and he went apeshit in Cata and Pandaria.

[OwenBurton]

I think the best thing that could happen to make the Alliance more appealing to Horde players is the Curse of Flesh wearing off - causing Humans to become Vrykul, Dwarves to become Earthen, and Gnomes to become proper Mechagnomes.

That might actually, in fact, be really interesting. Or they could join the Alliance as "allied races", while ogres, naga and san'layn join the Horde as opposing allied races.

[zhorteye]

Personally i think all they have to do now that cross faction is coming out, is let everyone have a chance to change factions for free, once per character.. That way i honestly think we'd see a good amount of the community actually switch back to alliance as they'd still be able to play with their horde friends (i personally would move my horde characters to alliance as i much prefer the alliance aestetics)

But having to pay 30euro per character is just a too steep price for me to do so..
Blizzard already makes about 24million $ per day.. so its not like they so to speak need the faction change money..

But unless we see something like a (even if short period) with free faction changes, then im afraid it'll never happen as the community is just too set in stone atm.

[exochaft]

Cross-faction is the only way to salvage the alliance playerbase, unless blizz did something drastic like gutting every horde racial so alliance racials were clearly superior. Even then, they'd have to hold that position for years to undo the damage that's been caused so far.

Pretty much, especially when all your end-game content is completely faction driven. If you play in the NA region, it's no secret that if you want to M+/PvP/raid seriously, you have to go Horde as that's where all the players are. Even the pugging scene is radically different when just looking at the group finder, where there's easily a 10:1 Horde/Alliance ratio of groups available at any given time.

While you can technically raid Alliance in the NA region, the amount of time and effort you have to put into forming and maintaining a roster of competent people for raiding is staggering as Alliance compared to Horde. And yes, I played at both factions at the same time so I got to see this first hand.

[rogueMatthias]

If you want some nuance and "moral grey" to the Alliance, make Sky Admiral Rogers the villain of the next expansion, with a breakaway anti-Horde faction. It's nonsensical the Alliance would keep forgiving the Horde and making peace with them again after every atrocity. At least make some people in the game realise this.

[Soon-TM]

Her “crusade” started in Cata, where she was almost in competition with Garrosh on “who will commit more war crimes” and she won by a large margin. Also Garrosh was not dead until WoD and he went apeshit in Cata and Pandaria.

1) Silly retcon "OMG Sylv was working with the Bald Man since ICC! 1!!1" is silly. Still, she committed no war crimes until BfA, so there you go.

2) BC/WotLK/Cata Garrosh wasn't apeshit crazy. That was only after he started drinking that funky Old God koolaid during MoP.

So my point still stands.

[cparle87]

Eh, Baine isn't cool. Baine is an alliance character who happens to be on the Horde. Blizz needs to do a LOT of work to fix him after having him say Taurajo was a legitimate target (even if it's true that the Alliance wasn't trying to be overly brutal BAINE should not be the Cdev's mouthpiece for that opinion, Baine should be on the Tauren's side)

I get what they were going for, with a character who supports peace and working together with the alliance... but that's ALL they've had Baine do. He hasn't done enough independent of being 'the peacemaker'.

They could've at least had him defend Horde civilians during the Alliance's attack on Dazar'alor... but they couldn't even be bothered to have him do anything there.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...ryRightOrWrong

That right up there is what they're trying to avoid having Baine be. Thing is he stands out because most of the others very much DO follow this philosophy.

[Philenia]

Remove the barrier of races and faction.
Now the war is over. Why can't I join the alliance with an Orc? Even better remove factions all together in new content. Make guilds faction fluid.

That in old content outside of instances still has factions is fine and acceptable. If that means all new content isn't faction based.

[VladlTutushkin]

1) Silly retcon "OMG Sylv was working with the Bald Man since ICC! 1!!1" is silly. Still, she committed no war crimes until BfA, so there you go.

2) BC/WotLK/Cata Garrosh wasn't apeshit crazy. That was only after he started drinking that funky Old God koolaid during MoP.

So my point still stands.

1) Night elves not knowing about “secret trail” all the way to Darkshore also silly yet it happened so Sylvanas WAS working with Jailer since WotLK. Plus all the way in Cata she already committed war crimes, just on smaller scale. For example when she blighted Soutshore with all inhabitants, and those few who survived were hunted down later.

2) Garry was going apeshit on Alliance since Cata and so should Alliance do the same.

[Soon-TM]

Alliance should do the same.

I'd actually love to see this.

[Joyreym]

Lore needs to be more complete. Blizzard has a narrative focus and forgets the rest of the world is huge. While we're in Shadowlands, they should be telling us things that happen in Azeroth, more characters should show up and be active. The Alliance specifically needs more internal confrontations, more problems to solve, and more characters to play. It doesn't even have to be in the game, if they put stories, audiobooks and comics it would be cool.

Alliance also needs to stop losing. Alliance players have long been denied narrative catharsis as it always suffers losses and its victories are only moral or offscreen.

[Dristereau]

They can't now. Alliance has been screwed in all fashions really, from story to racials. Racials have massively been an issues, especially noticeable in Throne of Thunder where Trolls (I think or Orcs) did increased damage to Beast bosses. Blood Fury has been extremely good PVE wise. Trolls were mandatory for the Dazar'alor Jaina Mythic fight due to weird interactions. Blood Elves has an AoE silence for all of WoD that was insane for Mythics/Challenge Modes and got replaced by an AoE purge.

Right now Orc is the best race in PVP for any class it can due to Stun reductions. Undead have Fear breakers. Tauren have War Stomp into Cyclone. The biggest one of Alliance has always been Human Racial which has been increased in CD from 2 minutes to 3 minutes and shares a 90 sec cooldown with other trinkets and only affects stuns.

Ultimately from a Racial perspective Night Elf is extremely good but too many people have gone Horde now there is no coming back for the Alliance. Cross Faction is the only way because Alliance playerbase is constantly shrinking for end game content.

[exochaft]

Remove the barrier of races and faction.
Now the war is over. Why can't I join the alliance with an Orc? Even better remove factions all together in new content. Make guilds faction fluid.

That in old content outside of instances still has factions is fine and acceptable. If that means all new content isn't faction based.

Here's the thing: you can still have faction war/skirmishes even in a game where there's no barrier for an Orc to join the Alliance or a Night Elf to join the Horde. The tech and concept has already been implemented in the game, but Blizz doesn't seem to want to expand it. What I'm referring to is FFA zones, like what we have had since Legion.

It's quite the irony that FFA zones exist, where the same faction can kill each other but the opposite factions can team up. Just another case of Blizz have the solution in front of their faces yet never quite seeing it. I suppose there might be hope, since it only took years for Blizz to decided to implement cross-faction raiding despite having a raid where you literally switch factions (BoD) and being able to go mercenary mode in PvP well before they implement it on a wider scale.

[Niwes]

One of the major complaints about players regarding the Alliance - and why they favored the Horde, even back in the original game - was the Alliance seemed too bland or uninteresting, while the Horde was much more nuanced and complicated.

For example, many Horde players insist that lots of fantasy games, especially back then, did not allow you play as orcs, trolls or tauren, which was why they felt the Horde in World of Warcraft was so appealing and unique in that regard, the orcs were not simply rampaging monsters, but a conflicted people with an ancient culture and a proud history who struggled with their identity while fighting for survival.

While Stormwind humans were simply the default option for beginner players, the same old human protagonists who fought against monstrous-looking invaders, that were used over and over in most every fantasy franchise. The "traditional" Alliance races of humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves simply seemed much less fascinating and engaging to some people than the opposing races.

I can understand this, to some extent, having an interest in both factions lore-wise - even in Battle for Azeroth, Kul Tiras was a beautiful place, but Zandalar honestly seemed much richer and more deeply fleshed out, and much more original, and far superior even to most of the previous Horde cities. The playable Kul Tirans were basically somewhat more obese humans with a modified Gilnean accent (which is even more confusing, as Jaina, her brothers, her parents, Brother Pike, Lady Waycrest, most of the major Kul Tiran characters were portrayed as in fact fairly slender and thin human characters, so I don't know what they were trying to get at there).

Regarding the other Alliance races:
- The dwarves seemed too generic and even among most Alliance players never seemed that popular. The ever-loyal short human sidekicks with a weird accent.

- The night elves I think were the most interesting part of the Alliance, but their story has been heavily diluted since the Third War, and always seem extremely reliant on the assistance of the other Alliance kingdoms, especially Stormwind. Cenarius no longer cares about them and is friendly to the Horde, most of the Wild Gods are neutral, Nordrassil was destroyed, their immortality is gone, their race is now all but extinct. Look at Wolfheart - in which even Tyrande was not able to help win the battle for the night elves, but Varian Wrynn came charging in at the last moment and saved them - or Mists of Pandaria, in which Varian taught Tyrande lessons in patience against the Horde. Some interesting elements such as the Highborne introduced in the Cataclysm, or the Wardens and demon hunters, seem to be almost never utilized in-game or heavily explored either.
https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...nowledge_seen/

- The gnomes, well...they are interesting, but I think most Alliance and Horde players are divided between those who intensely love them and those who intensely despise them. They also seem to be only in a background supporting role, Gelbin's appearance during that Zandalar cinematic was I think one of the few major appearances of gnome involvement, and they have yet to appear in any major expansion cinematic.

- The draenei also seemed to have been largely skimmed over with the exception of Legion (and I guess Draenor, but those draenei are now fanatics, and that world is long since lost, so I'm not sure if that still counts). Velen and most draenei characters had pretty much no role in Battle for Azeroth (Velen's greatest role was caring for refugees in Elegy), not showing up even for Battle for Darkshore; the Exodar itself was not mentioned whatsoever throughout the expansion and seemingly forgotten by both factions.

- The worgen provided an interesting twist, but they seem to be heavily ignored also after Cataclysm, with the exception of Genn Greymane, the token advisor at Anduin's side - their lands are STILL lost to them, so it's not like worgen players have much to look forward to either.

- The Tushui Pandaren other than Aysa's brief and stationary appearances with other Alliance leaders are not mentioned either.

- The Kingdom of Stromgarde seemed to have been rebuilt, but again, we saw nothing of this reflected in-game or in that novel.

Even the new allied races, such as the Lightforged and void elves, don't really seem to be expounded too much, just a couple new fodder NPCs for Horde players during Faction Assaults perhaps, but not much more. For example, why is the Vindicaar entirely absent from the Fourth War, and how did the void elf population grow significantly in such a short period of time?

How do most Stormwind humans view the Kul Tirans, positively or negatively, and how do most Alliance races actually regard the dark iron dwarves and mechagnomes? Why are there next to no interactions between any of those allied races themselves? Why can't most Alliance players visit 3 of 5 Allied race zones? In fairness, the Horde has full and constant access to the entirety of Highmountain and Suramar, in addition to all of Zandalar, and the only inaccessible zone for most Horde players is the time-displaced Draenor for the Mag'har orcs.

Even during Battle for Azeroth - the Horde players at Level 120 still heavily outnumbered the Alliance players, both in guilds and individually, leading to a major gameplay imbalance between the two factions. Are there any ways to better address this to even the playing ground perhaps - and perhaps to improve and diversify the Alliance in general, such that it might appeal more broadly and deeply to most players?

hmm, maybe 1 of 2 options ?

1) give em same strong racials ?
2) remove em from game ?

[VladlTutushkin]

I'd actually love to see this.

Its not nearly as enjoyable from the other side’s perspective.

[OwenBurton]

Its not nearly as enjoyable from the other side’s perspective.

Well, Tyrande and the night elves are already doing so according to Exploring Kalimdor, and seem to be pushing against the Horde hard in both Ashenvale and Azshara. I doubt their efforts could last though, their population was again extremely low after the Burning of Teldrassil, and even lower still after their massive losses in the Fourth War, the Battle for Lordaeron, the Battle for Darkshore, losing lots of their rangers and Wardens to the Horde, their casualties at Zandalar and the various Faction Assaults, etc.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

More lore about the races, more and true politics and internal tensions and divergences, give a much bigger role to dwarves, gnomes, draenei and other non-human members of the Alliance, scrap the High King title, allow the Alliance to be more protactive, not using the Night Elves as punching balls unlike what the official writers have done for so long and in such an extreme way, etc...

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Also more focus on relations, common ground, work together and cultural clashes between the races and subraces of the Alliance.

Make the Alliance more of a true alliance with members having more freedom to disagree and to actually do things without asking the other members, with Stormwind still being the most powerful and influential member but not ruling over the others and being in a difficult spot when most other allies or that both Ironforge and Darnassus agree to oppose Stormwind's views.

Actually retake and restore Gnomeregan and Gilneas, with Sicco Thermaplugg and most Troggs being eliminated by the time of Cataclysm.

Have the gnomes find counters to the Forsaken's Blight, thus riding the Forsaken and Sylvanas of a trump card that should have lost its value years ago.

Have the Night Elves being able of using real and competent guérilla warfare against the Horde to defend their homeland, not the crap from Wolfheart and BFA.

Have an exotic race such as the Arakkoas or someone else to join the faction.

[VladlTutushkin]

Well, Tyrande and the night elves are already doing so according to Exploring Kalimdor, and seem to be pushing against the Horde hard in both Ashenvale and Azshara. I doubt their efforts could last though, their population was again extremely low after the Burning of Teldrassil, and even lower still after their massive losses in the Fourth War, the Battle for Lordaeron, the Battle for Darkshore, losing lots of their rangers and Wardens to the Horde, their casualties at Zandalar and the various Faction Assaults, etc.

If we talking “same shit horde kept doing” then for no good reason they will suddenly wipe the floor with the horde troops and humiliate you for several expansions. Because thats how horde wins. Not only crushingly but also through bullshit plot power.

[OwenBurton]

If we talking “same shit horde kept doing” then for no good reason they will suddenly wipe the floor with the horde troops and humiliate you for several expansions. Because thats how horde wins. Not only crushingly but also through bullshit plot power.

I think the Horde was actually stronger than the Alliance in terms of brute force and strength in the three wars, or at least they seemed to vastly outnumber them, the Alliance only won through strategy and the Horde destroying itself from within.

[Feanoro]

I think the Horde was actually stronger than the Alliance in terms of brute force and strength in the three wars, or at least they seemed to vastly outnumber them, the Alliance only won through strategy and the Horde destroying itself from within.

The writers are very pleased that you didn't notice the retcons and tying the Alliance's hands behind its back.