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  1. #21
    More internal drama would be a start. Stop making everything revolve around Saint Anduin and let the races and their characters do their whole thing. Have the Alliance start to drift apart now that its primary opponent is no longer an active threat. Have the Lightforged take issue with having to side with Void Elves, Warlocks and other Light-forsaken abominations. Have Dwarves actually do something for a change. Have the Night Elves claim greater independence from the Alliance at large due to plainly seeing they can't be there to help every time. Have Anduin and Turalyon butt heads over the course of the faction. Doesn't mean it has to end in a civil war at all, but make the faction's internal politics more than Anduin and Friends.

    This could also be helped by having some among their races become more assertive. NEs wanting to retake all of Ashenvale. Humans wanting Lordaeron back. The reclamation of Gilneas. Again this doesn't have to lead to a massive HvA war, it can be a source of tensions and smaller-scale local conflicts where the Alliance reasonably wants territory they lost barely a decade ago back, and Horde reasonably doesn't want to just give it away.

    But Blizzard really seems to push the idea that you can only ever be a psychotic warmonger or a peacenik doormat in this setting. So I doubt they'll have the patience to actually flesh out Alliance characters and races, unless they decide to villain bat a couple of them in turn and have, say, Turalyon become a 40K Inquisitor overnight or something.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I would say the best way to make the Alliance more popular and interesting would be to give them some strong internal drama and conflict that is reflected in the overarching story-arc for a given expansion. An example that's been brought up many times now in this subforum would be to have Turalyon's regency cause a leadership crisis within the Alliance - have popular support for Anduin at a low ebb (due to his actions as the Jailer's puppet in Shadowlands), and perhaps have even Anduin unsure if he should take up the mantle of High King once more. Reflect this central schism in the narrative as a whole, with the Alliance having internalized factionalization as different groups rally behind Turalyon and Alleria or Anduin as their preferred leaders, perhaps regardless of how any of those figures feel about the situation.

    It would also be an interesting reversal and contrast to see the Horde's leadership solidify under this new Council approach, whereas the traditionally staid and unchanging Alliance undergoes internal conflict and a degree of breakdown as its client-states are unsure about which direction they should take. Kind of an exchange of roles, and gives the Alliance a chance to be the primary mover and conflict-generator of a given story.
    As much as I would like to see some Alliance focus of this flavor, particularly the bit about having them or their characters driving the story rather than merely reacting to our (horde) characters for a change, I'd have to wonder- Aren't his actions as the jailers puppet largely unknown to Azeroth at large? Would the populace, or even the house of nobles, or really anyone outside of Alliance leadership know about his actions unless someone spilled the beans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    make them a shade of grey instead of boring lawful good
    Seeing this sentence with Richard as your avatar is just mm *cheffs kiss*. thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  3. #23
    Hoof Hearted!!!
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    IMHO, the best way to make the Alliance more popular and interesting is to make some of their faction leaders the villains of an expac just like they have done with the Horde. Horde has lost Vol'jin, Thrall, and Cairne as faction leaders, and Garrosh and Sylvannus as villains. Alliance has only lost Varian and partially Anduin until he is rescued later.
    when all else fails, read the STICKIES.

  4. #24
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    As much as I would like to see some Alliance focus of this flavor, particularly the bit about having them or their characters driving the story rather than merely reacting to our (horde) characters for a change, I'd have to wonder- Aren't his actions as the jailers puppet largely unknown to Azeroth at large? Would the populace, or even the house of nobles, or really anyone outside of Alliance leadership know about his actions unless someone spilled the beans?
    I'd assume Turalyon would get the low-down in the pre-expansion story for 10.0 as all the Alliance heroes return from the Shadowlands to report in, essentially. From there, word spreads throughout the court of Stormwind and filters down into the taverns and laypersons, where it perhaps undergoes the requisite alterations and embellishments as a matter of course.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  5. #25
    Just remove Blood Elves from the Horde. Instantly the Alliance would have more players than the Horde.

    Blizzard's mistake was giving the monster faction the most beautiful race and then go on to let them factually win all conflicts (not on paper, but in terms of land accusition and influence over the world).

    Apart from having the more beautiful low level zones and capitals, the Alliance has nothing to show for.

  6. #26
    Dreadlord sunxsera's Avatar
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    I played 5 years alliance and 7 years horde. And it allways felt to be on the losing side as alliance.
    I still remember when voljin became warchief in SoO and varian said "we will end you" ... and a developer praised it as the "alliance moment"
    - which felt like a joke after the bombing of theramore etc.
    This was also the time ( + WoD ) when horde had better racials and player migration began.
    At the time the server i played on went from 50/50 to 90% horde in just 2 expansions. ( Azshara-EU )

    It allways felt like a lot more development time went into horde - starting when they made azhara the horde logo while stormwind got a broken city.
    Or when the devs had the cannibal corpse lead singer say "fuck these alliance f*ggots".

    Best way to make alliance more popular?
    Well, maybe give them some interresting and unique races to begin with.

    While horde got unique races added like nightborne, zandalari trolls & vulpera the alliance got burning dwarfs, mechagnomes & thick humans.
    It's just not exciting enough.
    For nearly 15-17 years male nightelfes looked like they smell a fart at all times & humans like they have a harelip.

  7. #27
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunxsera View Post
    burning dwarfs

    The best Alliance race, really
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  8. #28
    Stop writing the Alliance as victims and stop giving them dead end stories where they can't reciprocate when their enemy fights below the belt would be a good start.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Revert the humans and dwarves to Vanilla characterization. Moira through her now teenage son who has a claim on rulership over all dwarves takes a prominent role in resuming the imperial mandate from Vanilla. Humans, after the end of a war with few dividends ending in a white peace have Anduin return but be unable to resume his duties properly due to his trauma. Turalyon and the House of Nobles are instead the main groups who politick within the mess. The Night Elves, despite Tyrande's change of heart still do not follow the treaty. The throughline of all these things is that it allows for the Alliance to have internal dynamics, both within the races and between them rather than entropically circling around Anduin.

    This along with bringing the Bloodfang back into bigger prominence in a Gilnean storyline, offering more friction between the still human Gilneans and the cursed Gilneans that revel in it. Make Tess the new queen after Genn's departure since his old age I feel makes him not long for the story, and represent a prejudice towards the curse that's softly reminiscent of Godfrey, whereas Bloodfang takes leadership of the Worgen by dint of earning their respect over his military accomplishments and shows of strength during the Fourth War, having captured key locations. Could lead to a tug of war between the two leaders on whether it is better to be a human or to be a worgen, with both pro's and cons given their due focus.

    Also write Gilneans less like Stormwind humans in top hats and bring back their haughty, arrogant, and nationalistic attitude, it doesn't have to be the same extent that got them in the troubles they were originally in in the first place but it ought to be enough that they are their own distinct kingdom with their own personality and moral structure that aren't just a carbon copy of everything Stormwind save for the gothic horror aesthetic.

  9. #29
    Herald of the Titans Aurabolt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Hire people who actually like Alliance.
    ...This x 1000.

    The Devs and other longtime Blizz employees have been pretty open and candid about the fact they all roll Horde and like the Horde the most. It's the real reason why despite all the evil things the Old Horde did in WC1 and WC2 they got a redemption story in WCIII. It's also why despite all the evil things The New Horde did under Thrall, Garrosh, Vol'Jin and Sylvanas "There must always be a Horde" and "The Horde's problems should be solved by The Horde and only The Horde" basically. Meanwhile, the Alliance is expected to overlook and forgive everything no matter what.

    ...Enough of that shit.

    When Varian came back between TBC and Wrath, Alliance players/fans were hopeful this would mean an end to the status quo and story-driven character development for the Alliance moving forward. Gilneas rejoining the Alliance in Cataclysm was nice but no one cares if the Pandaren of either faction still exists or not. No one cares about what happened with the Iron Horde on Draenor but the Warrior King's death on The Broken Shore changed nothing. Tyrande's Heel Turn after The Burning of Teldrassil marked the first time a non-Human Alliance member not named Velen, Genn or Magni got significant develoment first and went at the Horde with surgical precision second. Don't even get me started on the events of Shadowlands.

    Politically, the Alliance has been about maintaining or restoring the Status Quo since the Horde showed up in WC1. The Old Horde blew up their homeworld and the Alliance is at an impasse by the beginning of WCIII. When the Scourge devastates Lordaeron, the Humans' seat of power moves to Stormwind City to the south. The city had been sacked by the Horde at the end of The First War but is restored by the time Lordaeron falls to the Scourge. Post WCIII, Stormwind City not only becomes the new capital city for Humans but the Alliance as a whole. Ironforge to the north is a secondary city but the focus is Stormwind. Darnassus is the Alliance's only major foothold on Kalimdor...until it's burned down by Sylvanas. Exodar is easy to forget it exists as is Kul'Tiras post-BFA. The return of Turalyon and the introduction of the Vindicaar at the end of Legion raised hope finally, the Alliance would start doing interesting things. BFA and Shadowlands say "PFFT! LOL!" so...yeah.

    Aside from new races joining (or rejoining in the cases of Gilneas and Kul'Tiras) and 3 faction leader changes (Bolvar to Varian, Varian to Anduin and Magni to Council of Three Hammers), the Alliance has not done anything really significant since WCII. It's crazy given they're far more stable as a faction than the Horde in comparison and always have been. We haven't seen Varian try to kill Jaina or Anduin try to kill Tyrande over disagreements for example. In comparison, the Horde got so much development every expansion you'd think they were the only faction. This is to say nothing of two Horde Civil Wars (MoP and BFA), a city getting wiped out (Undercity) and three fairly quick Warchief changes (Garrosh to Vol'Jin to Sylvanas) to name a few things. One thing that should have gotten way more attention than it did though was


    Now, the Devs claim Shadowlands marks the end of Part 1 of their longterm plans for WoW and the expansion to follow marks the beginning of Part 2. The Alliance is boarderline irrelevant compared to the Horde. That's the problem. Not just Lorewise but Gameplaywise too. Both need to change.
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  10. #30
    Herald of the Titans Rendark's Avatar
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    Removing void elves would make me want to play alliance more.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    - Ignoring their playerbase.


    The rest, you need to basically go back to the way factions worked before mop, but that is hard to do when the writers put themselves into a corner. Alliance should be trying by all means get lordaeron and guilneas back, as well revive the other lost human kingdoms, Tyrande and malfurion need to die and be replaced by people of action, game should be once again trade of blows and not peace and renewal or whatever bs danuser want to shove n the narrative
    Its like you been playing a different game lol,nonsensical conflict has been the norm forever

  12. #32
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I would say the best way to make the Alliance more popular and interesting would be to give them some strong internal drama and conflict that is reflected in the overarching story-arc for a given expansion. An example that's been brought up many times now in this subforum would be to have Turalyon's regency cause a leadership crisis within the Alliance - have popular support for Anduin at a low ebb (due to his actions as the Jailer's puppet in Shadowlands), and perhaps have even Anduin unsure if he should take up the mantle of High King once more. Reflect this central schism in the narrative as a whole, with the Alliance having internalized factionalization as different groups rally behind Turalyon and Alleria or Anduin as their preferred leaders, perhaps regardless of how any of those figures feel about the situation.

    It would also be an interesting reversal and contrast to see the Horde's leadership solidify under this new Council approach, whereas the traditionally staid and unchanging Alliance undergoes internal conflict and a degree of breakdown as its client-states are unsure about which direction they should take. Kind of an exchange of roles, and gives the Alliance a chance to be the primary mover and conflict-generator of a given story.
    They could have done that...but instead we got SL.

    The aftermath of BFA would have been perfect, certain races could have been for war and stand with Tyrande and the Night Elves...instead we got everyone blindly following Anduin, even the Dark Iron and Moira were instantly for peace.

    I don't know if story will help anymore, many people are Horde for the powerful racials and uniqueness...some for the pretty Belves lol. Half the races of the alliance are pink skins of various heights. Most of the allied races are basically just recolors of current races with less interesting racial abilities (I know that goes for almost every allied race...but once again some of the horde allied races have some okay racials)

    Items are another thing, Horde has some really cool stuff...but Alliance is horse this and horse that. Stormwind was wrecked by Deathwing but it took them forever to fix it...yet Orgrimmar has gotten a remodel and after siege didn't take a lick of damage

    Alliance races keep losing land...only Horde land lost was self inflicted. Two homeless races

    There just isn't anything unique or to be proud of with the Alliance...

  13. #33
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    Its like you been playing a different game lol,nonsensical conflict has been the norm forever
    it hasn't being nonsensical.

  14. #34
    WoW has a general lack-of-story problem.

    We have a main storyline, but that's effectively just the same few characters all realizing that they should team up against the Big Expansion Baddie - every. single. time.

    There's no appreciable storylines for the actual faction members. It's the whole "Warcraft is about Orcs vs. Humans" bullshit again that they cling to for no good reason. Tauren? Forget it. The old faction leader's major storyline death WE DIDN'T EVEN GET TO SEE IN GAME. Dwarves? Irrelevant, the only one who shows up is Magni and he's not even really part of the factions anymore and might as well be any race whatsoever. It's a complete waste of massive potential that they squander for their cinematic marketing moments centered around Anduin and Sylvanas, as Thrall and Jaina stand somewhere in the background with shocked looks and Tyrande is squatting in the corner, sulking.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    it hasn't being nonsensical.
    It has been a parody of nonsense actualy,im not against faction conflict,but it was simply writen poorly,i get its not easy in an mmo,heck even in star wars you have sith and jedi working against common enemies

  16. #36
    Dreadlord sunxsera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    They could have done that...but instead we got SL.

    The aftermath of BFA would have been perfect, certain races could have been for war and stand with Tyrande and the Night Elves...instead we got everyone blindly following Anduin, even the Dark Iron and Moira were instantly for peace.

    I don't know if story will help anymore, many people are Horde for the powerful racials and uniqueness...some for the pretty Belves lol. Half the races of the alliance are pink skins of various heights. Most of the allied races are basically just recolors of current races with less interesting racial abilities (I know that goes for almost every allied race...but once again some of the horde allied races have some okay racials)

    Items are another thing, Horde has some really cool stuff...but Alliance is horse this and horse that. Stormwind was wrecked by Deathwing but it took them forever to fix it...yet Orgrimmar has gotten a remodel and after siege didn't take a lick of damage

    Alliance races keep losing land...only Horde land lost was self inflicted. Two homeless races

    There just isn't anything unique or to be proud of with the Alliance...
    All of alliance's allied races could have been customization options for allready existing races tbh. It's just like the BfA mounts. Alliance = low dev effort.

    Adding another recollored horse mount could solve this problem.

  17. #37
    Just delete factions entirely and let each race be its own thing. Night elves had a lot of interesting culture and lore but in the alliance the ten thousand year old immortal warriors were subservient to a teenage human boy.

    Let each race have their strengths and, more importantly, flaws.

    Of course in a fantasy game where the term 'greenskin' is too offensive we cant expect much in the way of interracial conflict. This game would never allow conflict between nuanced groups that look out for their own interests that sometimes naturally come into conflict with others interests, now every race lives in perfect harmony with one another and anyone that doesnt instantly turns into a genocidal racist psychopath that wants to destroy the entire planet.

    Political correctness in a fantasy setting is utter garbage and completely kills the setting. You cant expect equality between races of giant ox people and demon juiced 'greenskins' and a race of infantile midgets or foxkin.

    Warcraft 3 had great thematics with the alliance and horde where each races contribution played to their strengths with tauren warriors, troll berserkers, elven mages and dwarven moartars, in wow everyone is interchangable. If factions were instead stripped into races we might see some interesting development for each factions races, without that though i dont expect much.

    Anyway as to the original question next xpac might be promising if anduin is sidelined and we have some timeskip. Genn and turalyon tearing shit up and going on a crusade against the horde would be awesome. They have the right to do it considering all the hordes insanity, having some leaders with balls driving conflict would be excellent. Maybe that could lead into factions being fragmented as certain races want to quit but i could see turalyon, worgen and night elves going ham on the horde.

    A personality like anduin or baine (cow anduin) simply cannot exist in a leadership role in a fantasy setting. I really get the impression anduin is some self righteous writers self insert.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    One of the major complaints about players regarding the Alliance - and why they favored the Horde, even back in the original game - was the Alliance seemed too bland or uninteresting, while the Horde was much more nuanced and complicated.

    For example, many Horde players insist that lots of fantasy games, especially back then, did not allow you play as orcs, trolls or tauren, which was why they felt the Horde in World of Warcraft was so appealing and unique in that regard, the orcs were not simply rampaging monsters, but a conflicted people with an ancient culture and a proud history who struggled with their identity while fighting for survival.

    While Stormwind humans were simply the default option for beginner players, the same old human protagonists who fought against monstrous-looking invaders, that were used over and over in most every fantasy franchise. The "traditional" Alliance races of humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves simply seemed much less fascinating and engaging to some people than the opposing races.

    I can understand this, to some extent, having an interest in both factions lore-wise - even in Battle for Azeroth, Kul Tiras was a beautiful place, but Zandalar honestly seemed much richer and more deeply fleshed out, and much more original, and far superior even to most of the previous Horde cities. The playable Kul Tirans were basically somewhat more obese humans with a modified Gilnean accent (which is even more confusing, as Jaina, her brothers, her parents, Brother Pike, Lady Waycrest, most of the major Kul Tiran characters were portrayed as in fact fairly slender and thin human characters, so I don't know what they were trying to get at there).

    Regarding the other Alliance races:
    - The dwarves seemed too generic and even among most Alliance players never seemed that popular. The ever-loyal short human sidekicks with a weird accent.

    - The night elves I think were the most interesting part of the Alliance, but their story has been heavily diluted since the Third War, and always seem extremely reliant on the assistance of the other Alliance kingdoms, especially Stormwind. Cenarius no longer cares about them and is friendly to the Horde, most of the Wild Gods are neutral, Nordrassil was destroyed, their immortality is gone, their race is now all but extinct. Look at Wolfheart - in which even Tyrande was not able to help win the battle for the night elves, but Varian Wrynn came charging in at the last moment and saved them - or Mists of Pandaria, in which Varian taught Tyrande lessons in patience against the Horde. Some interesting elements such as the Highborne introduced in the Cataclysm, or the Wardens and demon hunters, seem to be almost never utilized in-game or heavily explored either.

    - The gnomes, well...they are interesting, but I think most Alliance and Horde players are divided between those who intensely love them and those who intensely despise them. They also seem to be only in a background supporting role, Gelbin's appearance during that Zandalar cinematic was I think one of the few major appearances of gnome involvement, and they have yet to appear in any major expansion cinematic.

    - The draenei also seemed to have been largely skimmed over with the exception of Legion (and I guess Draenor, but those draenei are now fanatics, and that world is long since lost, so I'm not sure if that still counts). Velen and most draenei characters had pretty much no role in Battle for Azeroth (Velen's greatest role was caring for refugees in Elegy), not showing up even for Battle for Darkshore; the Exodar itself was not mentioned whatsoever throughout the expansion and seemingly forgotten by both factions.

    - The worgen provided an interesting twist, but they seem to be heavily ignored also after Cataclysm, with the exception of Genn Greymane, the token advisor at Anduin's side - their lands are STILL lost to them, so it's not like worgen players have much to look forward to either.

    - The Tushui Pandaren other than Aysa's brief and stationary appearances with other Alliance leaders are not mentioned either.

    - The Kingdom of Stromgarde seemed to have been rebuilt, but again, we saw nothing of this reflected in-game or in that novel.

    Even the new allied races, such as the Lightforged and void elves, don't really seem to be expounded too much, just a couple new fodder NPCs for Horde players during Faction Assaults perhaps, but not much more. For example, why is the Vindicaar entirely absent from the Fourth War, and how did the void elf population grow significantly in such a short period of time?

    How do most Stormwind humans view the Kul Tirans, positively or negatively, and how do most Alliance races actually regard the dark iron dwarves and mechagnomes? Why are there next to no interactions between any of those allied races themselves? Why can't most Alliance players visit 3 of 5 Allied race zones? In fairness, the Horde has full and constant access to the entirety of Highmountain and Suramar, in addition to all of Zandalar, and the only inaccessible zone for most Horde players is the time-displaced Draenor for the Mag'har orcs.

    Even during Battle for Azeroth - the Horde players at Level 120 still heavily outnumbered the Alliance players, both in guilds and individually, leading to a major gameplay imbalance between the two factions. Are there any ways to better address this to even the playing ground perhaps - and perhaps to improve and diversify the Alliance in general, such that it might appeal more broadly and deeply to most players?
    There is one thing that the Alliance certainly lacks and that is something between down to earth, brutal yet effective creatures.
    For some reason all alliance races are made far more fanciful than necessary.

    Gnomes? Could've been intellectual powerhouses, geniusses and wizards, instead they are comic relief mad inventors.

    Dwarves? Could be down to earth in the most literal sense, instead they are sooner under it with their background role.

    Night elves? Criminally monotonical caricatures that somehow manage to seem utterly generic as well, whiletheir soirce material really isn't.

    Draenei? Quirky and unique, alsocompletely outof place most of the time and thus quietly stored away in a cupboard.

    Humans? Basically generic™. The Worst Offenders.
    What makes humans interesting in other settings? Oh right, diplomacy, interaction, endless ambition and expliration. How convenient that diplomacy is unneeded as there is only one major human faction left, and for some reason all other races instinctually bow their heads to them. It doesn't help that Gilneans have slunk to the shadows mostly, also with the introduction of more believable ethnicities it becomes even weirder; where do they come from? So many opportunities to expand, bring up more sources of human varieties. Instead they opt for pretending that what i presume to be the Californian standard of randomly having a homogenously diverse mix of ethnicities for no reason is somehow a baseline of existence, when everyone who has travelled even a little bit knows the opposite is true.

    Ugh.
    Summary is that they lack genuine rounded personality due to piss poor writing (on this particular part mind you) over more than a decade, as well as having suffered from poor story-direction choices. I mean they kinda rob themselves of options by callously destroying so much of each race; Gnomeregan, Gilneas, Theramore (there goes a nascent *other* human factoon...), Blackrock Mountain & Grim Batol, Lordaeron in general, The Entire Night Elven Civilization. oh and the draenei, mechagnomes, void elves and lightforged were simply never numerous enough to be notable. Kul Tiras was/is nice but we haven't really seem them have any proper interaction with the rest of the world outside of BfA and WC3, also it does not help that they went with "strong" fat so you feel like you're playing a fat oversized hairless panda, inhibiting their popularity.

    Honestly they should just add vrykul, it would give the alliance a credible warrior race without need to rely on a gimmick twist (i.e. worgen curse, light-demon-things known as draenei, nature hippy stuff like the night elves, fatman Kul Tirans).
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
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    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  19. #39
    Brewmaster SunspotAnims's Avatar
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    I cringe every time someone suggests that the Alliance could be made more interesting by adding internal conflict. Clearly the writers did such a good job every time it happened to the Horde, and clearly it made people more invested in the Horde identity rather than driving them away from it. Oh wait, it didn't. Please think about what you're asking for and what you're probably going to get when you bring up the idea of internal faction conflict. And furthermore please ask yourself if you think it will actually make the Alliance more interesting to a degree that more people will identify with the faction.

    The real problem, and solution, is far more simple. Long ago a bunch a metalhead dudebros decided that the Alliance would be the generic fantasy faction and Horde would be the inverted, "cooler" fantasy faction. What this basically meant is that there was nothing the Alliance had the Horde couldn't have, but there were things that the Horde had that was exclusively Horde. You will never see Gnomes piloting a zeppelin (the explicitly stolen zeppelin in Westguard being the exception) because it was a machine specifically tied to the goblin identity. Gyrocopters, though? Even though they're a specifically gnomish/dwarven invention, you'll see goblins use them all the time. Since Alliance was treated as the generic fantasy baseline, artists and gameplay designers rarely put much thought into what should be reserved for the Alliance identity and what was just some fantasy toy to give to the Horde if it'd make them look cooler.

    For years too many artists and game designers knew what they wanted Horde to look like, sound like, and feel like, but couldn't bring themselves to think of an Alliance identity other than "not Horde." It honestly isn't hard; Kul Tiras and Gilneas are both technically generic human factions that have distinct and compelling identities, but for Gilneas it was too little and for Kul Tiras it was too late. Gnomes and Dwarves are in my opinion freakin' awesome and have so much potential but just haven't been given many opportunities to shine because they're apparently better served as comic relief. Hiring artists and developers that are as passionate about these identities as the old guys were for spikes and metal is the best solution. All it takes is some effort to realize that the Alliance isn't just "anti-Horde" and can freely have a personality of their own.
    Last edited by SunspotAnims; 2022-02-12 at 05:28 AM.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Regarding the other Alliance races:
    - The dwarves seemed too generic and even among most Alliance players never seemed that popular. The ever-loyal short human sidekicks with a weird accent.

    - The night elves I think were the most interesting part of the Alliance, but their story has been heavily diluted since the Third War, and always seem extremely reliant on the assistance of the other Alliance kingdoms, especially Stormwind. Cenarius no longer cares about them and is friendly to the Horde, most of the Wild Gods are neutral, Nordrassil was destroyed, their immortality is gone, their race is now all but extinct. Look at Wolfheart - in which even Tyrande was not able to help win the battle for the night elves, but Varian Wrynn came charging in at the last moment and saved them - or Mists of Pandaria, in which Varian taught Tyrande lessons in patience against the Horde. Some interesting elements such as the Highborne introduced in the Cataclysm, or the Wardens and demon hunters, seem to be almost never utilized in-game or heavily explored either.

    - The gnomes, well...they are interesting, but I think most Alliance and Horde players are divided between those who intensely love them and those who intensely despise them. They also seem to be only in a background supporting role, Gelbin's appearance during that Zandalar cinematic was I think one of the few major appearances of gnome involvement, and they have yet to appear in any major expansion cinematic.

    - The draenei also seemed to have been largely skimmed over with the exception of Legion (and I guess Draenor, but those draenei are now fanatics, and that world is long since lost, so I'm not sure if that still counts). Velen and most draenei characters had pretty much no role in Battle for Azeroth (Velen's greatest role was caring for refugees in Elegy), not showing up even for Battle for Darkshore; the Exodar itself was not mentioned whatsoever throughout the expansion and seemingly forgotten by both factions.

    - The worgen provided an interesting twist, but they seem to be heavily ignored also after Cataclysm, with the exception of Genn Greymane, the token advisor at Anduin's side - their lands are STILL lost to them, so it's not like worgen players have much to look forward to either.

    - The Tushui Pandaren other than Aysa's brief and stationary appearances with other Alliance leaders are not mentioned either.

    - The Kingdom of Stromgarde seemed to have been rebuilt, but again, we saw nothing of this reflected in-game or in that novel.

    Even the new allied races, such as the Lightforged and void elves, don't really seem to be expounded too much, just a couple new fodder NPCs for Horde players during Faction Assaults perhaps, but not much more. For example, why is the Vindicaar entirely absent from the Fourth War, and how did the void elf population grow significantly in such a short period of time?

    How do most Stormwind humans view the Kul Tirans, positively or negatively, and how do most Alliance races actually regard the dark iron dwarves and mechagnomes? Why are there next to no interactions between any of those allied races themselves? Why can't most Alliance players visit 3 of 5 Allied race zones? In fairness, the Horde has full and constant access to the entirety of Highmountain and Suramar, in addition to all of Zandalar, and the only inaccessible zone for most Horde players is the time-displaced Draenor for the Mag'har orcs.

    Even during Battle for Azeroth - the Horde players at Level 120 still heavily outnumbered the Alliance players, both in guilds and individually, leading to a major gameplay imbalance between the two factions. Are there any ways to better address this to even the playing ground perhaps - and perhaps to improve and diversify the Alliance in general, such that it might appeal more broadly and deeply to most players?
    Well, remember the questline in getting the Dark Iron Dwarves to join the Alliance and how there was a whole bunch of radical Dark Irons thatwant to go back to the old days when Ragneros was in control? Why not put some focus on that, where they're convincing other Dark Irons to overthrow Moira for being an illegitimate ruler to the Dark Irons. Most people often forget that the Dwarves had a big civil war between them over who would own Ironforge, but just because they're happy now doesn't mean that there isn't going to be any tension between them.

    The Night Elves didn't only lose a lot of their kin to the fires, but later on in BfA when Darkshore opened up. A lot of these killed Night Elves were raised by Sylvanas to serve her, one of which was a warden named Sira Moonwarden (Whom was the one gave us the orders for Warden World Quests in Legion). There is also the issue of the Night Warrior, which Tyrande used, but she also convinced a few others to become Night Warriors as well... So those Forsaken Night Elves might be something to spark a bit of conflict and interest with the other Night Elves.

    The gnomes have spent nearly 10 years trying to kill Thermaplugg so many times, and it isn't until Shadowlands that we get full confirmation that he's officially dead (and hilariously been reduced to being a Battle Pet) but there isn't any update if the Gnomes have retaken Gnomergan [which probably won't happen because they'll have to get rid of the dungeon or move it somewhere else and make it a gnomish simulation of retaking Gnomergan.] Aside from that because of the Mechagnome storyline, Gelbin isn't just King of Gnomergan, he's now King of ALL gnomes (even Mechagon).

    The Draenei already had plenty of focus in Legion, but I guess Blizzard didn't want them to give them more screen time so they could focus on the Night Elves... which is a poor decision. Although, given that one lore book that came out that nobody liked where Zekhan and Rexxar go to visit Velen to explore the area, the fact that Velen is totally fine with them could spike some potential internal political turmoil over the fact that he might be soft on the Horde compared to the other Alliance leaders.

    The worst part about the Worgen is that a lot of their involvement happens OFF-SCREEN in those Mission Table quests in BfA.. There were questlines for them taking control of Southshore, and even seizing occupation of Feneris Isle as a choke point to capture Lordaeron. A lot of people don't look into this stuff unless they deliberately go into Wowpedia and actually look into this stuff... THIS IS WHAT THEY SHOULD'VE FOCUSED ON. NOT AZSHARA. NOT N'ZOTH. If they wanted to make a believable War they should've gone through with it instead of focusing so much on finding a bigger fish to kill while treating the war story as a side-plot.

    Tushui Pandaren (and even Huojin Pandaren) haven't been relavent since MoP. In fact, Aysa and Jin should've gone back to the Turtle Island to live in peace and away from the War.... Why they came back and became ambassadors to the opposing sides will remain a mystery to me.

    The Allied Races are still new, they've only just joined their respected factions...and even then they're not part of the base game since you have to unlock them. So it remains to be seen if they'll get any development aside from Thalyssra and Lor'themar having a possible relationship together (They probably wanted to do the same for Baine and Myla Highmountain...but didn't.)

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