What are the best ways to make the Alliance more popular and interesting?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Gnomes could have had a so much more important role in the story and in the Alliance getting successes. For example they could have heavily contributed to the fight against the Forsaken and Sylvanas by finding antidotes and counters to the Blight and to many other biological weapons used by the Forsaken, to foil Sylvanas' plans and to help decontaminate plagued settlements and bases in Gilneas and Lordaeron. They could have helped create weapons against the Iron Horde and the Burning Legion during WOD and Legion. Their magical and alchemical abilities also could have been highlighted at least several times.

[Friedrich]

I do agree that the Alliance need more negatives, but I think neither faction should be the "undisputed" baddie. It didn't really do the Horde any favors in War of Thorns and BfA. The Alliance has done some awful things, just not on the same scale as the Horde. I think it was pretty balanced in Cata, where the massacre at Camp Taurajo can be balanced against the bombing of Thal'darah Grove, for instance. Only once we got into MoP, starting with the indiscriminate destruction of Theramore, did the Horde really start getting shown in a negative light, with tensions increasing with Vol'jin's attempted assassination and the troll rebellions. But even then, that was mostly the Horde dealing with itself; there wasn't really anything the Horde did to the Alliance that caused the Horde to question its path during that time.

A theoretical ending of MoP with Varian rejecting diplomacy, gutting Thrall, and continuing the conflict could have been an interesting turn of events, but it would've undermined the entire expansion theme. Honestly just swapping the order of Lordaeron and Teldrassil, with Anduin attacking the Horde after seeing Sylvanas' behavior in Arathi, would've proved a more interesting narrative with better tones than what we ultimately got in BfA (though it would've completely ruined Saurfang's arc, to the point where I don't know where the Horde story would've gone in that path).

For people who know the lore, and you seem to be up to date with it, the overall picture starts from the opening of the Portal, right?

Let`s step into Varian`s place for a moment. When you were just a kid you have this whole war and your kingdom wiped off the map, then comes a continental war that involved almost all humans, a lot of the Dwarves and the High Elves in their region.

Than comes the Thrid War, all Human kingdoms bar Kul`Tiras get wiped off the map letting Stormwind to take up the mantle of leadership of the Alliance (Stormwind didn`t really have the necessary time to rebound population wise in 20 or so years so the dominant power in the Alliance would actually be the Dwarves of Khaz Modan, but this in another topic).
Than Daelin dies in Kalimdor to the orcs, you hear all kinds of reports that he was responsible for the attack. You travel to Kalimdor at the behest of Jaina to meet this Thrall character, but events land you in their savage arenas and you barely escape in time to join a world crusade against the Lich King.

The first steps of the invasion against the Scourge go well....than disaster strikes at the gate of Icecrown when the allies of the Horde, the Forsaken betray you all and get Bolvar killed in the process.
Your forces are also struck from behind at one of the Wrath Gates by an over zelous Horde commander.

You but heads with a young and hot headed orc commander, Garrosh, the Lich King is delt with.

Cataclysm comes around, the cool headed Thrall is off doing shamanic rituals you care little about and Garrosh steps up.

A) You get PTSD from the First and Second Wars and mobilise to take the Horde down before they, invitably attack you in your opinion due to prior history.

B) You become a Powerpuff Girl with DBZ hair smocking Troll Weed and hoping for peace.

Keeping the all history in mind, and current events with Putriss in Undercity, in my opinion, it would have been more organic to have the Alliance start a punitive war against the Horde. And they would have all the rasons to do so, the logical reasoning is there.

On the other hand, the Horde would get to be the noble savages that BADED together in a world that WANTED them GONE.

You would have the Alliance initiate a conflict due to prior history and a Horde who actually DID change and wanted to be left alone. The story would have been far more natural and organic rather than lapse into a more coloured version of Gondor Vs Mordor Blizzard edition.

[Eggroll]

That's a very interesting point, but again, it's not really about what I am talking, which is what should be the narrative focus of the alliance in terms of the story itself.

Don't let the Alliance lose everytime. Even if they win. Losers do not attract.

[sam86]

"Roflstomped"? When did "losing cities, being genocided and only "winning" because Horde got into a civil war" is "roflstomp"? Its winning because your enemy got too distracted to finish you off.

Orgrimmar was besieged and what we see for it? A single plaque in the tunnel near brazier where nobody can see it anyway cause of how smoggy it is down there.

Garrosh went on a campaign of victories after victories all over Azeorth, same as Sylvanas... And Sylvanas also got away with it.

How exactly did Garrosh 'win'? Or Sylvannas for that matter
What game are u playing? Seriously where did they win? I'm asking for real
U do know that official lore answer and literally game events (Garrosh lost since over 10 years now) show how alliance won every single conflict with horde, and story (how sh8t it became) advances based on that
so how did Garrosh or Sylvanas win?
And why exactly did u ignore the fact that anyone can see on official wow channel that alliance dominate both pve and pvp competitions? if anything this shows how horribly broken OP alliance racials are in last 8 years since they decided to record and upload their tournaments, and only reason live server isn't pure alliance is because players don't want to abandon all their progress for new toon because of slight racial advantage (If i have over year playtime on my toon and i stopped playing hardcore since decade, how many playtime have the top players of wow on their toons?)

- - - Updated - - -

Don't let the Alliance lose everytime. Even if they win. Losers do not attract.

when did they LOSE!??
This is like crying ur enemy scratched u while he is a corpse, twice!
U lost a skirmish but won the war, and to WIN the war that means u gained everything u lost AND more!

[Polygons]

The answer is simple: Ethereals.

[Eggroll]

How exactly did Garrosh 'win'? Or Sylvannas for that matter
What game are u playing? Seriously where did they win? I'm asking for real
U do know that official lore answer and literally game events (Garrosh lost since over 10 years now) show how alliance won every single conflict with horde, and story (how sh8t it became) advances based on that
so how did Garrosh or Sylvanas win?
And why exactly did u ignore the fact that anyone can see on official wow channel that alliance dominate both pve and pvp competitions? if anything this shows how horribly broken OP alliance racials are in last 8 years since they decided to record and upload their tournaments, and only reason live server isn't pure alliance is because players don't want to abandon all their progress for new toon because of slight racial advantage (If i have over year playtime on my toon and i stopped playing hardcore since decade, how many playtime have the top players of wow on their toons?)

- - - Updated - - -


when did they LOSE!??
This is like crying ur enemy scratched u while he is a corpse, twice!
U lost a skirmish but won the war, and to WIN the war that means u gained everything u lost AND more!

Yeah, we "win" on paper. But look at the game. Night elves lost everything. Are near extinction canonically. Horde didn't have to give back ANYTHING. Not Aszhara, not Hillsbrad, not Darkshore, not Ashenvale - nothing.
Horde also did not pay for their crimes.
So they say Alliance "wins" - but never actually gets anything out of it. How is that "winning"?

Horde was allowed to destroy TWO Alliance capitals without repercussions.
I'm telling you, it doesn't feel much like winning.

[VladlTutushkin]

Yeah, we "win" on paper. But look at the game. Night elves lost everything. Are near extinction canonically. Horde didn't have to give back ANYTHING. Not Aszhara, not Hillsbrad, not Darkshore, not Ashenvale - nothing.
Horde also did not pay for their crimes.
So they say Alliance "wins" - but never actually gets anything out of it. How is that "winning"?

Horde was allowed to destroy TWO Alliance capitals without repercussions.
I'm telling you, it doesn't feel much like winning.

Fixation on the fact Garrosh died does not make him winning all the way till SoO less true. People just dont want to see it.

[OwenBurton]

Yeah, we "win" on paper. But look at the game. Night elves lost everything. Are near extinction canonically. Horde didn't have to give back ANYTHING. Not Aszhara, not Hillsbrad, not Darkshore, not Ashenvale - nothing.
Horde also did not pay for their crimes.
So they say Alliance "wins" - but never actually gets anything out of it. How is that "winning"?

Horde was allowed to destroy TWO Alliance capitals without repercussions.
I'm telling you, it doesn't feel much like winning.

Well, Southshore is seemingly being reconstructed at least, so some of Hillsbrad is Alliance territory. That being said, Lordaeron is essentially restored in a matter of hours while Darkshore is still destroyed. Even from the most anti-Alliance perspective, it is difficult to not feel sorry for the night elves in their current state.

Fixation on the fact Garrosh died does not make him winning all the way till SoO less true. People just dont want to see it.

I do think that Blizzard is...well, perhaps not necessarily "Horde-biased" per se, but they do seem to invest more resources and energies on developing the Horde narrative than they do the Alliance. We cannot deny that most Blizzard employees are proudly Horde players (Christie Golden might be slightly Alliance-leaning, but I think even she plays on both factions).

For example, the recent Lordaeron questline was fascinating. But it was basically giving the Forsaken their home (Tirisfal), their capital (Lordaeron Keep and Undercity), and their ruling leaders (Desolate Council) back, with the Alliance player just randomly tagging along, to learn in the end that most Forsaken night elves are still proudly Horde, with only a very small group breaking away. And that was after the Horde received another very well-developed and fleshed-out questline regarding the blood elves, which rewarded all Horde players with a brand-new mount.

For night elf fans...what did they receive in the end? Basically, the few night elf souls which were saved by the Maw going into a seed of some kind (perhaps sacrificing their existence in the process), Ysera staying in the Shadowlands, and Tyrande and Shandris returning to Azeroth to await an unknown future. No mount, no new questline, no new capital or home, just more uncertainty and vague promises of "renewal". That is hardly satisfying for most kaldorei players, I would imagine.

[sam86]

Yeah, we "win" on paper. But look at the game. Night elves lost everything. Are near extinction canonically. Horde didn't have to give back ANYTHING. Not Aszhara, not Hillsbrad, not Darkshore, not Ashenvale - nothing.
Horde also did not pay for their crimes.

so ur problem is they didn't update the old game to reflect that
I bet u feel pissed when Varian suddenly vanish after u finish wrath exp -.-
Old content is stuck in old time, cata zones show horde invasion, in Hillsbrad u see both Sylvanas and Garrosh as warchief, then in SL u see everyone hunting here, and if u ever feel pissed go solo raid SoO and punch Garrosh, something we have no equal for
So u get to enjoy weekly looting while we get to enjoy 1 time lvl zone at best... so much win, i seriously wish we 'lose' as much as alliance
And again that also ignore how alliance dominate all tournaments since years
Honestly i don't see alliance ever recover in numbers of players thanks to introduction of faction change in wrath and blizz 'promise' of 'keeping eye on it' (my server Ghostlands turned pure alliance by Cata, and generally pve servers became alliance and pvp horde), unless they make alliance racials even more broken than they are now, and honestly even then doubt it will fix numbers because live servers average player probably have years of investment in their toon to just suddenly change faction, because even payed transfer doesn't move all ur progress
anyway blizz decided to fuck it and fuck lore and just make alliance and horde best buddies teaming for pve content, yay

- - - Updated - - -

For night elf fans...what did they receive in the end?

u get neither Sylvannas nor Garrosh, which is a win
but yeah nelf specially are f8cked, and prior to this exp wow was basically orcs vs humans and rest are supports
also quality of undead quest is highly questionable, u do know that for many ppl Calia is a /who meme, my friend who plays wow since wc2 days don't know her

[Eggroll]

For night elf fans...what did they receive in the end? Basically, the few night elf souls which were saved by the Maw going into a seed of some kind (perhaps sacrificing their existence in the process), Ysera staying in the Shadowlands, and Tyrande and Shandris returning to Azeroth to await an unknown future. No mount, no new questline, no new capital or home, just more uncertainty and vague promises of "renewal". That is hardly satisfying for most kaldorei players, I would imagine.

Exactly my thought, thank you.

[Loreth88]

Exactly my thought, thank you.

And they get dark ranger customization option and no one really ask for, why not give them Tyrande night warrior makeup? They will forgot many sh*t they going through (not all of them)

[Raven]

Yeah Forsaken is back in the horde like nothing ever happened, get a titel, dark ranger customization, and a city back, Night elfs got a seed that will probably be their new city in a expansion or 2 and seem to be located on a Island out in nowhere far from any of their lands they had for thousands of years, so not only lost Darnassus but seem to loose Kalimdor also if the new main city isnt there.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Better developp and use the secondary leaders and characters, and the internal opponents of the rulers. Developp the culture and unique traits of each kingdom and races.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Operation Gnomeregan should have ended with Sicco Thermaplugg and his Troggs being defeated for good and Gnomeregan being finally retaken by gnomes.

Cataclysm should then have seen the start of Gnomeregan's rebuilding and the city would have been repopulated by MOP.

[Iain]

Better developp and use the secondary leaders and characters, and the internal opponents of the rulers. Developp the culture and unique traits of each kingdom and races.

BfA Alliance was great in that sense. So much intrigue.

[Verdugo]

Operation Gnomeregan should have ended with Sicco Thermaplugg and his Troggs being defeated for good and Gnomeregan being finally retaken by gnomes.

Cataclysm should then have seen the start of Gnomeregan's rebuilding and the city would have been repopulated by MOP.

What does that have to do with making Alliance more popular.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

What does that have to do with making Alliance more popular.

To give more development and focus on non-human races, instead of having the humans do things for the other Alliance races, as well as making some real achievements to a race that is treated too much and too often as just the comic-relief and to make some progress in the story instead of the eternal statue quo of WOW.

Less focus on humans, and more lore and real accomplishements and progresses for the other races of the Alliance.

[Verdugo]

To give more development and focus on non-human races, instead of having the humans do things for the other Alliance races, as well as making some real achievements to a race that is treated too much and too often as just the comic-relief and to make some progress in the story instead of the eternal statue quo of WOW.

Less focus on humans, and more lore and real accomplishements and progresses for the other races of the Alliance.

But not gnomes for fucks sake.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

But not gnomes for fucks sake.

Every race should have its development and moments of awesome.

What's your problem with Gnomes anyway ?

[Verdugo]

Every race should have its development and moments of awesome.

What's your problem with Gnomes anyway ?

Look, gnomes are just not really popular. No matter how many "badass" moments you shoehorn in, they will never become popular, so just giving them spotlight will piss off people that want the real Alliance favourites like Night Elves to get spotlight without becoming punching bags.