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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    RACIALS literally DO NOT MATTER. They have not mattered for years and years. Anyone who thinks the faction imbalance is from racials is a moron. It is psychological, that's just fact.

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    People who keep yapping about racials have no.clue about anything. Racials have not mattered since before legion.
    And i already said that it dosent matter if racials are balanced NOW. The “big migration” happened when they were unbalanced as fuck and so all top guilds switched Horde.

    Of course nobody will switch factions now because it COSTS A LOT OF MONEY. So in order to incentivise people to switch they should repeat what they did in BC but for Alliance.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    Yes, in many cases it's that or outright character derailment. There are cases that are just too big and/or stupid for it to just be because of informations the characters don't have.
    Sounds like you're just reinforcing my point. "The characters made a totally stupid play that I'd never make cause I know the plot therefore the writing is bad."
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Sounds like you're just reinforcing my point. "The characters made a totally stupid play that I'd never make cause I know the plot therefore the writing is bad."
    Thats not what he said and you know that.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    And i already said that it dosent matter if racials are balanced NOW. The “big migration” happened when they were unbalanced as fuck and so all top guilds switched Horde.

    Of course nobody will switch factions now because it COSTS A LOT OF MONEY. So in order to incentivise people to switch they should repeat what they did in BC but for Alliance.
    And again no it did not. It happened slowly over time as the players who enjoy wows endgame are drawn more to the horde and those who play alliamce are generally a lot more casul which is why they prefer that faction and playing ff14.

    9.2.5 cross faction raiding has made it super clear. 100% of guilds I have pugged with have been the single most casual groups I have ever seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    Always hear Alliance have better in terms of RP but idk I've been having a lot more fun with FF14 RP personally, lot of really nice people probably helps the game doesn't promote tribalism like WoW does.
    The term fun and ff14 is on oxymoron. It does not make logical sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    The faction shift was caused by racials and happened well before Legion. Top guilds went Horde and openly stated it was for the superior racials. The crowd followed, and only after the avalanche of faction transfers did Blizzard take any action. The problem is that they did nothing to entice players to return to the Alliance.

    Goblin rocket belt on Mythic Kil'Jaeden says hi.
    .05% of players cared about rocket belt. It had no cause for any factio. Changes.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    And again no it did not. It happened slowly over time as the players who enjoy wows endgame are drawn more to the horde and those who play alliamce are generally a lot more casul which is why they prefer that faction and playing ff14.

    9.2.5 cross faction raiding has made it super clear. 100% of guilds I have pugged with have been the single most casual groups I have ever seen.

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    The term fun and ff14 is on oxymoron. It does not make logical sense.

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    .05% of players cared about rocket belt. It had no cause for any factio. Changes.
    Wrong again. Even Blizz admitted that most hardcore guilds moved Horde. Why? Racials were better and hardcore players looking for every single 0.5% crunch.

    Of course Alliance remaining playerbase was more casual because people who follow the meta switched factions.

    Denying it wont do any good, since even devs does not bother denying anymore.

    And crossfaction is dogshit solution, actually balancing factions through another racials skew and then “freezing” them is.

    Also i dont know why are you so mad about FF14… and you ARE absolutely mad about it, no need to play coy, but most Alliance players left are those who mostly only play WoW alone, since once they find an alternative game they leave.

  6. #466
    Warchief Progenitor Aquarius's Avatar
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    There is many good guilds still on Alliance but the thing is they like to play with themselves as a close group. Pugging is impossible and literally unbearable there which is why I moved horde to play casually and being able to actually do anything. Haha

  7. #467
    If faction changes were only $5-$10, the alliance player count would increase at least 25%.

  8. #468
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Let's not bring game vs. game derailment to this thread (e.g WoW vs. FF14), pivot back to the actual topic of the thread.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Greasygob View Post
    If faction changes were only $5-$10, the alliance player count would increase at least 25%.
    You want to take the bonus money from them, how they will afford the nose whitening and “party girls”.
    I think the devs give up on balance, thats the reason the cross faction introduces. Easy solution.

  10. #470
    The alliance is already interesting. The faction unbalance was caused by player power and player power or a merge would be the only ways to fix it.

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    stop making overpowered alliance characters and always making the alliance win?

    Alliance = superman = boring
    Horde = dude with no powers = interesting
    The reason the alliance always wins is because the horde's goal is always world domination or the purgation of the alliance. The alliance's is just 'survive'.

    The game needs smaller scale conflicts like actually fighting over a continent or something. Then one faction can actually win without meaning the end of the other.
    Last edited by Myradin; 2022-07-12 at 04:33 PM.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    The reason the alliance always wins is because the horde's goal is always world domination or the purgation of the alliance. The alliance's is just 'survive'.

    The game needs smaller scale conflicts like actually fighting over a continent or something. Then one faction can actually win without meaning the end of the other.
    "Fighting over a continent" is not exactly a small scale. Also for example losing a continent is a "death sentence" to races like Forsaken, Blood elves and Night elves, who are basically "all about" staying where they are.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    "Fighting over a continent" is not exactly a small scale. Also for example losing a continent is a "death sentence" to races like Forsaken, Blood elves and Night elves, who are basically "all about" staying where they are.
    I mean a newer place like pandaria. Or dragon isles

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    I mean a newer place like pandaria. Or dragon isles
    The issue is that aside there has to be something really important to win in those fights.

    Not a resource or territory that is never mentioned again.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    The faction shift was caused by racials and happened well before Legion. Top guilds went Horde and openly stated it was for the superior racials. The crowd followed, and only after the avalanche of faction transfers did Blizzard take any action. The problem is that they did nothing to entice players to return to the Alliance.

    Goblin rocket belt on Mythic Kil'Jaeden says hi.
    U can even go more recent then that again with Goblin's rocket belt on Mythic Painsmith

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    The issue is that aside there has to be something really important to win in those fights.

    Not a resource or territory that is never mentioned again.
    I'm not saying its easy, I mean, there's a reason why Blizz doesn't do it.

    But in order for the HvA conflict to be interesting, there has to be something to actually gain or lose. But if every conflict is just one side going genocidal, its extremely boring, and makes it less and less resonable for neutral factions, much less the other side, to ever put up with them.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoSul View Post
    U can even go more recent then that again with Goblin's rocket belt on Mythic Painsmith
    When there was an opportunity for an Alliance race to have a blatant advantage in raid content during Castle Nathria, Blizzard was quick to nip it in the bud.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    When there was an opportunity for an Alliance race to have a blatant advantage in raid content during Castle Nathria, Blizzard was quick to nip it in the bud.
    In beta in fact. While they never once did the same for the Horde races. Trolls could skip whole phase on Jaina due to that, their passive "washing away" her ice stacks faster and somehow gaming the system.

  19. #479
    The solution is very simple.

    1)Have a deep dive on what is defining each sub faction. Set up their internal politics, needs, priorities as a nation. Make conflicting politics inside of Alliance. The Dark Iron Business is different to Worgen. Don't make them all happy, cooperative and holding hands, that is boring and completely unrealistic even for a fantasy genre.

    2)I think it would be great to set a story where you follow one narrative and see how it is developing.
    In example choice A) Join the night elves in their efforts to rebuilt B) Join the humans and help them in Westfall because that zone is beyond broke.
    Whatever choice you'll make you have to stick to it, and provide different rewards. Let there be one meaningful choice in game at least.

    3) Give more shady characters, and get them all from just gray to completely amoral and vindictive. Alliance can still be "the good faction" but everywhere are black sheeps, and having some dark clouds inside would still invoke lots of interest. Let's use House of the Nobles again, still some political drama to takeover Stormwind

    4) Make players lose at times - similar fashion like in Vash'ir in Cataclysm. I think it was the most compelling way to show that no matter what player did, against impossible odds you can still lose. But from each loss there has to be lesson learned, it has to give you some clue on what is next and how to work around it. I'm not talking about BfA-scale like loss. But something more bearable and something that can be used as a way to build up new NPCs, New Heroes and get some fresh blood. (Altho I'd say Horde needs new heroes far more right now).
    I miss Mists of Pandaria

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramz View Post
    The solution is very simple.

    1)Have a deep dive on what is defining each sub faction. Set up their internal politics, needs, priorities as a nation. Make conflicting politics inside of Alliance. The Dark Iron Business is different to Worgen. Don't make them all happy, cooperative and holding hands, that is boring and completely unrealistic even for a fantasy genre.

    2)I think it would be great to set a story where you follow one narrative and see how it is developing.
    In example choice A) Join the night elves in their efforts to rebuilt B) Join the humans and help them in Westfall because that zone is beyond broke.
    Whatever choice you'll make you have to stick to it, and provide different rewards. Let there be one meaningful choice in game at least.

    3) Give more shady characters, and get them all from just gray to completely amoral and vindictive. Alliance can still be "the good faction" but everywhere are black sheeps, and having some dark clouds inside would still invoke lots of interest. Let's use House of the Nobles again, still some political drama to takeover Stormwind

    4) Make players lose at times - similar fashion like in Vash'ir in Cataclysm. I think it was the most compelling way to show that no matter what player did, against impossible odds you can still lose. But from each loss there has to be lesson learned, it has to give you some clue on what is next and how to work around it. I'm not talking about BfA-scale like loss. But something more bearable and something that can be used as a way to build up new NPCs, New Heroes and get some fresh blood. (Altho I'd say Horde needs new heroes far more right now).
    I agree with you, this lack of layers in the Alliance characters, with characters being either good or bad, with opponents becoming corrupt and evil (such as Fandral, Maiev, Benedictus) most of the time is dragging the story and faction quality down.

    Not counting the lacks of proper internal politics, progress in the races' story with them staying stuck in the same status quo, and interactions between the races, especially non-human ones.

    Also I think that the Alliance should have more and deeper storylines that don't involve the Horde, and where the faction and its races are actually progressing toward something, such as taking back homes or bettering the lives of the peoples or developping relations with neutral races and factions.

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