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  1. #501
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Well, same can be said about Horde. Name one or two Cool Moment in wow lore from MoP to SL, where Horde players can say something like "F*king YEA! FOR THE HORDE!"
    One thing, that may count, but not quite is ending cinematic of Frostfire. Thats all.

    You have been at least be victors in that game. Our side - do not. Always losing, always face in a dirt.
    "Losing"? Genociding an enemy race and turning them into miserable refugees who will die out due to low birth rate (even if we dont see it in a span of WoW) is not victory enough for you? Horde actually gets to blow up Alliance cities, gas its citizens, kill its civilians and etc, etc, since Cata. BfA was a pinnacle of it and Horde entirely got away with it by piling the blame on Sylvanas after she left the Horde on her own volition. How is THAT a defeat? Not to mention that Horde didnt even withdrew from conquered land, while Alliance apparently entirely left the Lordaeron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Well, same can be said about Horde. Name one or two Cool Moment in wow lore from MoP to SL, where Horde players can say something like "F*king YEA! FOR THE HORDE!"
    One thing, that may count, but not quite is ending cinematic of Frostfire. Thats all.

    You have been at least be victors in that game. Our side - do not. Always losing, always face in a dirt.



    Well, they are at least alive - and can change - Jaina in MoP as example, Malfurion and Tyrande. Horde characters in other hand - just been killed. 1 character that denied that fate - is VolJin, but he will be in stasis like 5-10 years, if devs even remember about him.

    Name 2 more character in Darkspear aside Rokhan and Vanira (3th grade troll character afk since Cata)?
    Maybe famous taurens aside Runetotem and Baine (both afk since Cata)
    Maybe goblin aside Gazlow and that madman doctor from bfa campain?
    Or even orc aside Thrall that are alive?
    Same with most of allied races. Highmountain have Mayla and that it. Maghars have only Geyara. Even famous Zandalari mostly dead or killable.

    Can you say the same about Alliance characters?
    I can name one or two prominent characters for Alliance race, and it goes one for all of gnomes and only 3 for dwarves because of three clans of which Falstadt is barely touched upon.

    Despite what you may think there is no deep and immersive pool of characters on Alliance side, and they only change for the worst as time goes by.

    Every time the plot breaks them to forgive the Horde YET AGAIN and SCREW THEMSELVES OVER to do so. Fuck it, Tyrande would be better off dead then living in this fucken shame.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    "Losing"? Genociding an enemy race and turning them into miserable refugees who will die out due to low birth rate (even if we dont see it in a span of WoW) is not victory enough for you? Horde actually gets to blow up Alliance cities, gas its citizens, kill its civilians and etc, etc, since Cata. BfA was a pinnacle of it and Horde entirely got away with it by piling the blame on Sylvanas after she left the Horde on her own volition. How is THAT a defeat? Not to mention that Horde didnt even withdrew from conquered land, while Alliance apparently entirely left the Lordaeron.
    So that is victory to you? Murdering civilians, burning world tree? blow up Alliance cities, gas its citizens? Well, that some nazi way of thinking. Horde dont get cool moments, just villian bats all over from WotLK to BfA.

    And for "Horde didnt even withdrew from conquered land" is false. In Darkshore there are no Horde. In Ashenvale Horde in a corner. Tirisfal was gased to death even for Forsaken. And we didn't get our lands back, Silverpine is under Worgens, Arathi under Stormwind, Plaguelands are under paladins, half of Hillsbrad under Alliance. But you can dream, yea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    I can name one or two prominent characters for Alliance race, and it goes one for all of gnomes and only 3 for dwarves because of three clans of which Falstadt is barely touched upon.

    Despite what you may think there is no deep and immersive pool of characters on Alliance side, and they only change for the worst as time goes by.

    Every time the plot breaks them to forgive the Horde YET AGAIN and SCREW THEMSELVES OVER to do so. Fuck it, Tyrande would be better off dead then living in this fucken shame.
    We can even count, as bringing info from wowpedia or any other site. Can count live Horde characters and Alliance. I mostly sure that only humans are having more than entire Horde. Oh, and Night Elves too, even with burning - any major NE character was not killed. And they are going strait to Ardenweald either to ressurect or to be seeds to new world tree. Look at countless dead Horde and nonNE Alliance characters that stays in the Maw. NE will be fine, with such attention from devs.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    So that is victory to you? Murdering civilians, burning world tree? blow up Alliance cities, gas its citizens? Well, that some nazi way of thinking. Horde dont get cool moments, just villian bats all over from WotLK to BfA.

    And for "Horde didnt even withdrew from conquered land" is false. In Darkshore there are no Horde. In Ashenvale Horde in a corner. Tirisfal was gased to death even for Forsaken. And we didn't get our lands back, Silverpine is under Worgens, Arathi under Stormwind, Plaguelands are under paladins, half of Hillsbrad under Alliance. But you can dream, yea.
    YES! Its a VICTORY as far as it goes. I can fucken feel the small confetti bombs popping as that happens. Its only villainous if you hang for it, otherwise its a victory. And Horde shoved all its acts of genocide and evil on Sylvanas and called it a day and now Alliance characters are forced to shake their hands and smile while Horde still smells vaguely of smoke from Teldrassil.

    Horde is back to Tirisfal in force and Alliance is gone from there as per the Forsaken scenario. Hell, only Undercity is still gassed, the surface is clear and liveable. Teldrassil is fucken gone as a zone entirely, a reminder of Alliance impotence and weakness.

    Worgens not even mentioned in Silverpine aside from now "half not canon" Exploring book. Also dont fucken pile paladins of Silver Hand with Alliance, when they officially rejoin them in force and we have a declaration of it in written lore then it will be Alliance, same as Cenario Circle being bunch of race traitors and collaborators, betraying the very nature they serve by colluding with Horde which destroys nature through multitude of ways from napalm to Blight gas.

    And there shouldnt even BE any Horde in Ashenvale! The fuck they thinking being there? With one hand they claim that whole war was purely on Sylvanas and they "wuz tricked" and yet remain in land that is not theirs by the agreement they signed in MoP in exchange for Azshara.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    So that is victory to you? Murdering civilians, burning world tree? blow up Alliance cities, gas its citizens? Well, that some nazi way of thinking. Horde dont get cool moments, just villian bats all over from WotLK to BfA.

    And for "Horde didnt even withdrew from conquered land" is false. In Darkshore there are no Horde. In Ashenvale Horde in a corner. Tirisfal was gased to death even for Forsaken. And we didn't get our lands back, Silverpine is under Worgens, Arathi under Stormwind, Plaguelands are under paladins, half of Hillsbrad under Alliance. But you can dream, yea.

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    We can even count, as bringing info from wowpedia or any other site. Can count live Horde characters and Alliance. I mostly sure that only humans are having more than entire Horde. Oh, and Night Elves too, even with burning - any major NE character was not killed. And they are going strait to Ardenweald either to ressurect or to be seeds to new world tree. Look at countless dead Horde and nonNE Alliance characters that stays in the Maw. NE will be fine, with such attention from devs.
    Also screw that point in particular.

    1) Fuck this attention. Turning a race into permanent victim of the Horde is shit.

    2) We dont know if they get resurrected, so far we know they "sacrificed" themselves to make a fucken seed for Nu-Teldrassil.

    3) Again, fuck that noise, night elves dont need new tree, they need dead Horde heads on pikes through whole Ashenvale and Horde civilians tortured in most grotesque ways and then hanged from the trees to show what happens when you push the war from resource conflict into a race war of extinction.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Well, same can be said about Horde. Name one or two Cool Moment in wow lore from MoP to SL, where Horde players can say something like "F*king YEA! FOR THE HORDE!"
    One thing, that may count, but not quite is ending cinematic of Frostfire. Thats all.

    You have been at least be victors in that game. Our side - do not. Always losing, always face in a dirt.
    Well we have the initial missions of Forsaken fighting alongside Sylvanas vs... Malfurion holding a tornado?

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    YES! Its a VICTORY as far as it goes. I can fucken feel the small confetti bombs popping as that happens. Its only villainous if you hang for it, otherwise its a victory. And Horde shoved all its acts of genocide and evil on Sylvanas and called it a day and now Alliance characters are forced to shake their hands and smile while Horde still smells vaguely of smoke from Teldrassil.

    Horde is back to Tirisfal in force and Alliance is gone from there as per the Forsaken scenario. Hell, only Undercity is still gassed, the surface is clear and liveable. Teldrassil is fucken gone as a zone entirely, a reminder of Alliance impotence and weakness.

    Worgens not even mentioned in Silverpine aside from now "half not canon" Exploring book. Also dont fucken pile paladins of Silver Hand with Alliance, when they officially rejoin them in force and we have a declaration of it in written lore then it will be Alliance, same as Cenario Circle being bunch of race traitors and collaborators, betraying the very nature they serve by colluding with Horde which destroys nature through multitude of ways from napalm to Blight gas.

    And there shouldnt even BE any Horde in Ashenvale! The fuck they thinking being there? With one hand they claim that whole war was purely on Sylvanas and they "wuz tricked" and yet remain in land that is not theirs by the agreement they signed in MoP in exchange for Azshara.

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    Also screw that point in particular.

    1) Fuck this attention. Turning a race into permanent victim of the Horde is shit.

    2) We dont know if they get resurrected, so far we know they "sacrificed" themselves to make a fucken seed for Nu-Teldrassil.

    3) Again, fuck that noise, night elves dont need new tree, they need dead Horde heads on pikes through whole Ashenvale and Horde civilians tortured in most grotesque ways and then hanged from the trees to show what happens when you push the war from resource conflict into a race war of extinction.
    Well that escalated quickly. If I dont call genoside victory - I am bad horde player?
    Or even ever can be so - genoside never be VICTORY.
    Or you are russian to be so angry, cruel and brutal? Than that game is not for you man. There will be no heads on pikes, no genoside to call that victory.

    And for second part I'll answer you with your words - "screw that point in particular". Attention was not over yet. NE will have their time to shine. Every, I repeat, every expansion has NE lore or NE characters. No other race aside humans have so much. And once for a while they have bad part - and with that HOWLS of Alliance players still comes after like 4-5 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Well we have the initial missions of Forsaken fighting alongside Sylvanas vs... Malfurion holding a tornado?
    You can call that war of thorns - cool moment of Horde history?

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Well that escalated quickly. If I dont call genoside victory - I am bad horde player?
    Or even ever can be so - genoside never be VICTORY.
    Or you are russian to be so angry, cruel and brutal? Than that game is not for you man. There will be no heads on pikes, no genoside to call that victory.

    And for second part I'll answer you with your words - "screw that point in particular". Attention was not over yet. NE will have their time to shine. Every, I repeat, every expansion has NE lore or NE characters. No other race aside humans have so much. And once for a while they have bad part - and with that HOWLS of Alliance players still comes after like 4-5 years.

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    You can call that war of thorns - cool moment of Horde history?
    Well according to the metrics you are. Not into genocide = Alliance lapdog, go switch to Alliance or play FF14. I mean... this what was going on during BfA launch on forums. And also War of Thorns was probably the most decisive win any faction had ever had. And it was on Horde's side.

    Horde HAD heads on pikes, brutality and genocide so WHY THE HELL NOT the same for Alliance? Just why?

    And yes i am russian, so what? Russians are up there in terms of how many times we got genocided and then had "grudge match" wars to avenge that, and in terms of raw population numbers lost i think only China had worse devastations.

    "Every expansion has NE content"? CENARION CIRCLE IS NOT NE CONTENT. I can repeat it as many times as it takes. And if having a quest chain based on a race makes it "race had expansion content" then almost every race gets expansion content, since multiple races get quest chains dedicated to characters of their origin every expansion. Hell, blood elves get tons of content even in places they dont really fit in but they still do.

    Alliance players "howl" because of how UTTERLY fucked they faciton is. Ending a genocidal war with a limp dicked peace treaty and then also letting Sylvanas do community service for genocide? Really? "Time to shine" that will matter can only come from Alliance hitting the Horde in the face with brutality equal to that of the Horde. Otherwise we can kill as many kobols, Jailers and Nzoths as can be stuffed into one expansion and it still changes nothing.
    Last edited by VladlTutushkin; 2022-08-01 at 09:01 PM.

  7. #507
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    You can call that war of thorns - cool moment of Horde history?
    Nope.
    I mean in Cata. The Forsaken vs Guilneas missions.

    The Horde's missions there were about conquering and getting things right and the Kaldorei-Warguen's were between drawing and losing.

    (I did not do more Alliance lore. The other races bore me)

    PS: BFA It's a plot error. Where both sides lose.

    ____
    theme two. I samo content of a race when that content gives something of value to the race.

    Druidic content is as much content to the Kaldorei as it is evil Random Orc content to the Horde.
    Last edited by geco; 2022-08-01 at 08:59 PM.

  8. #508
    Pandaren Monk Cloudmaker's Avatar
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    Stop with the genocide talk and borderline nation bashing. Stay on topic.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    And yes i am russian, so what? Russians are up there in terms of how many times we got genocided and then had "grudge match" wars to avenge that, and in terms of raw population numbers lost i think only China had worse devastations.
    Its just your opinion man.

    For NE content - there was not only cenarion circle stuff fo NE. And NE had more progress story than any other race. They have joined mages, that was fogbidden for 10k years, Illidary, have whole zones about NE, as Hyjal and Ardenweald (yes, that was zone for NE). You have quests in BfA, that is logical btw. Yo had quests even in Draenor, where you shouldnot even have been. Nagas, Satyrs, Worgens - its all NE stories.

    And for reference - i dont think that doing genicide is decisive win, you know. Maybe you are learnt by other books than other world, but massmurdering civilians and combatants are really bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by geco View Post
    Nope.
    I mean in Cata. The Forsaken vs Guilneas missions.

    The Horde's missions there were about conquering and getting things right and the Kaldorei-Warguen's were between drawing and losing.

    (I did not do more Alliance lore. The other races bore me)

    PS: BFA It's a plot error. Where both sides lose.

    ____
    theme two. I samo content of a race when that content gives something of value to the race.

    Druidic content is as much content to the Kaldorei as it is evil Random Orc content to the Horde.
    In Cata there was a draw. Forsaken was hit hard from Worgens, as they have no power to fully occupy Gilneas. But Worgens too have no power to force forsaken out. And that position war lasted from Cata to BfA, and hopefully will be ending in DF/11.0

    >BFA It's a plot error. Where both sides lose.
    Glad not only me think that. If we deleted faction war stuff from expansion - there had been far better story.

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    For NE content - there was not only cenarion circle stuff fo NE. And NE had more progress story than any other race. They have joined mages, that was fogbidden for 10k years, Illidary, have whole zones about NE, as Hyjal and Ardenweald (yes, that was zone for NE). You have quests in BfA, that is logical btw. Yo had quests even in Draenor, where you shouldnot even have been. Nagas, Satyrs, Worgens - its all NE stories.
    Yes "Nagas, Satyrs, Worgens" are Warguen stories. So Ogre Stories are Orc stories.

    The real issue with "NE Content" is that it doesn't end up being NE content.
    Take for example Azhara at BFA. Yeah that was supposed to be a strongly NE sona... but it ended up being a ride with Jaina.
    You have Ardenweald where it is a sona of Life not Kaldorei and all the Kaldorei Plot there is Good "everything you achieved in BFA and SL was useless and apart from that your goddess treats you like garbage". Actually in this story Voljin achieves much more than Tyrande.

    What I'm going to do is not because a Zone has Trees, life magic or comments from Elune is a Kaldorei zone. That's like saying that any character that has Undead, Arthas or Death magic themes is a Forsaken character... and I don't think anyone believes that Death Knight Quests are Forsaken content.

    But if I can accept you that the Kaldorei can become the third race with the most content (After Orcs and Humans) But almost all the content of the Kaldorei is about things that they lose or completely Useless content like the "Night War". Or is it "you have to save these Kaldorei from something they should be able to do on their own. Praise the Human Hero of the day."

    PS: I leave you a prediction. In the next expansion we will have the story of how the Kaldorei recover their tree or something like that... But Spoiler. The Kaldorei could have retrieved it since they could possibly have created 2 or 3 trees in the "Time Skip".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    In Cata there was a draw. Forsaken was hit hard from Worgens, as they have no power to fully occupy Gilneas. But Worgens too have no power to force forsaken out. And that position war lasted from Cata to BfA, and hopefully will be ending in DF/11.0
    That the fight is Equal or Equal only makes it better Content.
    That is the content that is good. Killing Civilians is not something to be proud of.

    But back in Cata their counterpart was Malfurion's Quests. That they were a great nonsense.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    Its just your opinion man.

    For NE content - there was not only cenarion circle stuff fo NE. And NE had more progress story than any other race. They have joined mages, that was fogbidden for 10k years, Illidary, have whole zones about NE, as Hyjal and Ardenweald (yes, that was zone for NE). You have quests in BfA, that is logical btw. Yo had quests even in Draenor, where you shouldnot even have been. Nagas, Satyrs, Worgens - its all NE stories.

    And for reference - i dont think that doing genicide is decisive win, you know. Maybe you are learnt by other books than other world, but massmurdering civilians and combatants are really bad.

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    In Cata there was a draw. Forsaken was hit hard from Worgens, as they have no power to fully occupy Gilneas. But Worgens too have no power to force forsaken out. And that position war lasted from Cata to BfA, and hopefully will be ending in DF/11.0

    >BFA It's a plot error. Where both sides lose.
    Glad not only me think that. If we deleted faction war stuff from expansion - there had been far better story.
    What? Naga, satyr, illidari and etc ARE NOT NIGHT ELF CONTENT. If you use that metric then trolls are the most content rich race in entire fucken Horde!

    Night elf content is content involving and expanding upon CURRENT night elves , in the Alliance, identifying as kaldorei.

    Everything else is neutral content that can be traced to the origins of night elves, but so are Nightborne and they are decisively NOT night elf content.

    Same as undead night elves are not night elf content.

    Also if new content is shit that just buries the race deeper into the ground then i would rather go without.

    Take a look at the core issue of NE - they always worfed to prop up the Horde. In Cata they basically had “War of Thorns light” by Garrosh. In BfA Blizz doubled down on it. Why? Why the fuck they thought it was a good idea to take already bad plot beat and repeat it but many times more egregious?

    And again - genocide is bad but in WoW its not bad since Horde keeps avoiding any responsibility for it!

  12. #512
    as people have said: put the war back in warcraft

    to be blunt, lots of people play wow to wargame. they are not here to be lectured on how war is wrong and to embrace shades of gray en route to a peaceful Azeroth. they are here to spill blood.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Dancaris View Post
    How about no?
    1. That means Dalaran? Back in the time it was strongly blue flavored with crazy Jaina as a leader. She even murdered blood elves - where are consequences? Or Divine Bell, that was stollen by NE, than restollen by Horde?
    2. Yea, Nzoth is Sylvanas fault, totally. And Focusing Iris was far from worldending thing. Oh, and Legion invasion case was brilliant. It wasnot Garrosh fault - he just start run from trial. Kairoz let all of this happen. Khadgar let Guldan escape, twice! So by your logic - him to be blamed. Or Wrathion who told Kairoz to do so, or even Anduin - who tell Garrosh that his meal was poisoned. No Garrosh - no problem, yes? Or we forgot that Benedictus dude that start End of Times? Archbishop of Stormwind churche btw. Or by that logic we could blame Arthas and Kelthuzad for all of this starting, and they were humans back in a day.
    3. And again - nope. Horde clean after itself, Alliance just helping them. Sorry lad.
    1)For number 1 you are missing the Chronological Order. By the time we reached Dalaran which was a neutral city there have been many events that led to Jaina dismantling the Sunreavers from Dalaran (Garrosh's spies inside Kirin Tor sabotaging Theramore, more Garrosh's spies using Dalaran's portals to get the Bell after Dalaran tried to secure the Bell in order not to get into the Hands of a Madman). Also let's not lie anymore please. The official lore is that Jaina imprisoned those who resisted and killed only those who attacked her. The rest is headcanon. But I'm not talking mostly about Dalaran. I'm talking about the Bombing of that Cenarion Circle Tree, the murder of the Blue Dragonflight who were transporting the Iris to the Nexus and the attack on the Vale. All of these were neutral factions that were attacked because they had something Garrosh needed and the weapons he gained had capabilities of tearing the planet asunder. The Focusing Iris according to Malygos could end Azeroth 10 times over. The Horde were helping him during all of that till he turned against them.
    2)As with number 1 Sylvannas is not the scapegoat here. The Horde helped her free Nzoth by giving her the dagger.The Horde helped her plan to empower the Jailer and try to unmake all reality. They are directly or indirectly responsible. The Legion invasion was a direct or indirect consequence from the Horde helping Garrosh gather all that power and reach till the trial and then escaping instead of ending him before he even started all this as Saurfang promised. The signs were there. Blaming Kairoz, Wrathion or Anduin is petty since so many events preceeded those.
    3)And again nope sorry. The Horde has to do a lot to clean themselves after puting not Azeroth but reality to danger two times.

    My take on the whole series is that the Horde as a faction should start to clean up their mess and not needing the Alliance clearning up their mess all the time. The Horde Council is a good first step.

  14. #514
    @Darth-Piekus No headcanon is too extreme, no mental gymnastics too torturous when it comes to Horde fans trying to exonerate the Horde.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    @Darth-Piekus No headcanon is too extreme, no mental gymnastics too torturous when it comes to Horde fans trying to exonerate the Horde.
    My point though was to criticise Blizzard and their choices of what they present us and the three things I mentioned are whats happening. I believe that the Council was the first good step in a good direction. Personally I don't want any more of this shitty war scenario if only one side are allowed to do what they do and escape the consequences even when their actions help reality enders. It's enjoy it a lot now that they are singing kumbaya in a Council that picks flowers.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    My point though was to criticise Blizzard and their choices of what they present us and the three things I mentioned are whats happening. I believe that the Council was the first good step in a good direction. Personally I don't want any more of this shitty war scenario if only one side are allowed to do what they do and escape the consequences even when their actions help reality enders. It's enjoy it a lot now that they are singing kumbaya in a Council that picks flowers.
    Exactly this is Blizzard's fault not the Horde.
    This isn't that Voljin didn't fire a laser beam and kill Azhara.

    This is Varock who should declare a Mack-Gora to Sylvanas as soon as he was without honor and that he said it in war crimes and he says it in the novel of the beginning of BFA. He doesn't make it to the end of BFA.

    Blizzard writes the Horde out of character so they can be the bad guys to the point that his character becomes just the bad guys.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Never winning and never actually feeling like a hero is a big issue for Alliance, sure.

    Game keeps telling you that you are a hero , but you never actually see it. You just lose, suffer, “win” bitter pyrrhic victories and then suffer more in the aftermath. Even Horde dosent have to go through that much anguish in every story.

    I know that hero needs a “hardship moment” to overcome but Alliance feels like one endless , agonising struggle without end or any light in it and not a heroic overcoming.
    Alliance issues - I wonder if the horde feel their issues are better - because despite the principal focus for the last decade and a half in wow, it's not exactly been optimal for al ot of people - but it has been eventful and dramatic - which is what writing would give you. If alliance was the focus, you'd get similar things - like you did in WC2 where they were.




    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post

    Night elves need to just take over Hyjal and officially throw the Horde out and bar them access to the Nordrassil, druid or not.
    NElves need some several things truly amazing to happen to them - they have 3 major wars and two genocides they suffered greatly and don't seem to have improved. The emergence of that wondrous age, is in lore, but not been witnessed by players - we've just seen the destruction

    First was the first invasion of the legion when they lost most of their world, civilization, population and the sundering that followed.
    Second was WC3 - where they lost their immortality and a lot of their power, while still having the restrictions of the long vigil era in place
    Third was the WoT in the BFA pre-event - where they had a second genocide, lost their tree etc

    We witnessed all of these as players, even part of the first - through the Well of Eternity instance - but not witnessed any of the grwoth nor the wonder - which is terrible for a night elf fan. WoW was the post sundering and post long vigil era we expected to see a start, but they instead knocked them hard twice, once in Cataclysm, and then again, even harder in WoT.

    They need more than a new home. They need a new forest, a new city, and regain of their powers and immortality. Should see the best of night elf civilization in the city, the most beautiful forest with at least no devastation or corruption in it for a change, regain their immortality, and let's see all their legendary lore groups be and do amazing things - Priestesses of Elune, Highborne/Moonguard, Druids (night elf druids specifically not druids of other races), Demon Hunters (some bad ass Illidan replacements like Vandin?), Wardens, Sentinels, Black moon and Ravencrest/Dark ranger undead

    I mean if each of these got some serious mjo power ups - the Priestess tapping into the font of Elune, both her light side and dark side (see the ToS Moon sisters encounter), the Moonguard/Highborne tapping into the Well of Eternity again, the night elf druids able to weaponize the Emerald dream magic, the Wardens and Sentinels just being total badass the black moon sect mastering the new Night warrior power Tyrande can now control, and some lore development for the undead Ravencrest faction - this is what you need you need a wholesale improvement.

    Druids can be beatuifying and fixing incredible amounts of power with the Emerald dream magic, Highborne leaders, the Shen'dralar were the wonder makers and architects of the kaldorei empire, they would ensure a new city is stunning with a level of wonder to eclipse the old. The Priestess should have a stunning Cathedral to Elune - how about the CoEn, uncorrupted? - meanwhile I'd like to see another Fortress citadel like Black Rook hold be a power house.

    Make the remnants so powerful, no one can fuck with them in their land despite their much depleted numbers, and show it, have a few invasion scenarios where they totally own .

    Then restore their immortality as the heart of their identity, and their star culture as their principal culture eclipsing both their arcane and nature magic identity. It's the stars /moon that make them most unique anyway, and in the lore this ties into both their arcane and nature legacy - focus on what that means how it plays out in both night elf civilization and druidic culture.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    as people have said: put the war back in warcraft

    to be blunt, lots of people play wow to wargame. they are not here to be lectured on how war is wrong and to embrace shades of gray en route to a peaceful Azeroth. they are here to spill blood.
    Whose blood?

    Because everybody HATED whenever we went into Horde vs. Alliance stuff outside of PvP. What people really want, it seems, is to bash big dragons and big demons with some friends, and not give too much of a hoot about the whole Orcs vs. Humans legacy of the original WarCraft.

  19. #519
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    I think its more about the races then lore whatever.
    People just want more diversity in their screen or own char.
    I main alliance but compared to horde they are all resized humans.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    and with strange Aeons even Death may die.

  20. #520
    @VladlTutushkin and everyone else

    (Note: I'm not saying NElves are alone in suffering, or in needing improvements: but they've quite the story, and for a race that has continuously being used as punching bag in the wow story telling with 0 upswing they are due several big ones.

    I'm sure fans of other races would like to see more improvements. But:

    • We have seen Orcs and humans greatly improve in wow, though Orcs did take a knock for Garrosh's sins,, netiehr Orgrimmar, the ORcs or any of their established strongholds and gains were lost, Garrosh just failed to secure the things he won in his conquest.
    • We have seen humans take bad knocks, in WC1 and WC3, but they've also not only recovered what was lost, but Stormwind is at the greatest it has ever been.
    • Gnomes haves een hope and light with the return of their royal family and their techno city of Mechagon, though Gnomeragan needs fixing.
    • Draenei are in a bad shape in that respect, sadly we can't claim the many assets of WoD for them - however, while we haven't seen it in game, we are told they've fluorished on Azurmyst.
    • Dwarves have had great improvements, the uniting of the 3 clans, clearing of Grim Batol and Shadowforge /Thaurssian city, the Dark irons are being restored, as are the wildhammers and the Bronzebeards - we haven't seen the assets in game due to lack of updates, but it's there.
    • Pandas off course won the struggle, the sha eliminated, and even now with tthe Rajani Mogu emergence as servants of Ra-den they have powerful allies as a detterrence against other Mogu
    • Trolls suffered Vol'jin's loss, but it was no genocide, looks like he's becoming a loa, the Zandlaari joining in is a huge troll boost, however while it would be nice to see the darksepars gain assets, the loa connection and shadow hutneres offers exciting future forward.
    • Tauren also seemed to have flourished, meeting cousins in Northrend, Pandara and the Broken Isles, no more Genocides too after the Cenataur struggle, they built their first ever city, so you could say they are in the best times ever, learning druidism, power of the light, sun and An'she - massive strides, despite the tragedies of Cairne and the betrayal of Magatha, which arestory developments races should have as it's a story of the struggles and how you over come and get better than before according to your lot.


    We just don't see the night elves overcoming and getting better than before, there is a disparity - but that is not to say others couldn't use more.


    • Worgen ofc had their terrible curse that made them who they are and the invasion fo their land, it wasn't agenocide, and it was a bad thing, but they gdid get empowered, and now it seems they've gotten Gilneas back in the cross faction pluses, so not bad.
    • Goblins lost Kezan, but gained Azshara, well ahven't really lost Kezan, BFA showed that the place is certianly not totally destroyed as the Venture co are mining azerite their, - but they still have lost their home, but gained a lot more in their expansion in the horde as cataclysm show - again an off set to the lost that night elves haven't been so blessed with.
    • Blood elves or High elves, well, we've seen huge strides from them, 2 major tragedies, the exile journey and the scourge invasion, but their story had every hardship followed by massive strides, the new kingdom of Quel'thalas and a high elven civilzation emerged from the exile (unlike the night elves who just went into war/defensive mode after the sundering and stayed there till wc3 to prevent the legion finding the well), then after the Scourge defeat, we as players have witnessed the blood elves grow immensely in power and restoration. WE haven't seen the assets in an update yet, but every expansion has seen gains and wins for the blood elves, some smaller more minor set backs like Dalaran, but they bounced back from that, expanding their magic in blood ctystals, fel , and greatest of all the light as paladins and priests. MAjor friendship in the night elven Nightborne gainign a lot of old highborne lost knowledge -it's been an amazing ride, not without dangers, but lots of nice surprises, boosts and good shows all round whenever they encoutner conflict, it's been amazing if you're a blood elf fan.
    • Even new race Vulpera, or on a new high since joining the horde.
    • Finally Forsaken - i mean the undead thing is possibly one of the worse things that could happen to anyone, no one got it as bad as the humans, but as forsaken, they've actually done quite well, it'snot been easy, but it's been successful, and some of the best stories have come their way. Their first major set back is recently with Sylvanas, whicch quests show they've now overcome, I can't say they've gone through the same ordeal, their greatest ordeal is actually becoming undead, but that goes for every DK too, , as Forsaken though, with innovation , plagues, conquests, they've been strong, and even after Sylvanas, who had let's face it a good decent ending despite all her crimes, it's been pretty strong.


    It's night elves they've really kinda dumped on, so I would expect something major.. no offense coming their way that really catapults them forward.
    Last edited by Mace; 2022-08-02 at 09:02 PM.

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