What are the best ways to make the Alliance more popular and interesting?

[Tanaria]

This is precisely the biggest problem of the alliance. I can have this discussion about Kaldorei, Trolls, Oros, Forsaken, Taurens and maybe humans. But about almost no Alliance race.

Almost every race in the Alliance has a single point of view and sometimes not even that.

There are more negotiations and Alliances within the Kaldorei than in all of the rest of the Alliance.

The potential for the Alliance to be interesting is there.

But when their story just revolves around 2 races, whilst the Horde includes all the races - then "Houston we have a problem"

If you were to ignore the Humans and Night Elves (Tyrande mainly) for one expansion, I guarantee the Alliance story could be vastly more interesting.

[Loreth88]

The potential for the Alliance to be interesting is there.

But when their story just revolves around 2 races, whilst the Horde includes all the races - then "Houston we have a problem"

If you were to ignore the Humans and Night Elves (Tyrande mainly) for one expansion, I guarantee the Alliance story could be vastly more interesting.

No Alliance or night elf fan wanna that many expansion "around them". We wanna a proper representation in one expansion, not a punching bags for the Horde, so they can feel superior, or for humans so they show how the night elf so incompetent but the Humans are so great in every possible way. Or a druid expansion or patch use the night elf mounts and architectures, but not for them, but for the neutral group so every horde races can use it to and call it for their own.
Everything they got took it away, or getting humiliated.
They get the mages back, but the horde have more quest and interact with the new kaldorei mages then the kaldorei themselves . (mostly to kill them ofc.)
Get the wardens in Legion the new buildings and style with it and instant call them neutral. etc.
Get to Access to The Temple of the Moon in legion (tomb of sargeras) and yet no night elf have getting there ant interact with the ghost or going to reclaim the old library, objects or anything.
Getting many, but the only reason Blizz take them in game to use for anyone, but not for the race who have the connection with this things.

[geco]

The potential for the Alliance to be interesting is there.

But when their story just revolves around 2 races, whilst the Horde includes all the races - then "Houston we have a problem"

If you were to ignore the Humans and Night Elves (Tyrande mainly) for one expansion, I guarantee the Alliance story could be vastly more interesting.

It's just that even those races are pretty little explored.
The Kaldorei are interesting... if they are interesting because of things we know about W3. Not because of anything that happened during WoW.

While the Horde has races that are born 100% in the Wow. For example the Forsaken.

[Tanaria]

It's just that even those races are pretty little explored.
The Kaldorei are interesting... if they are interesting because of things we know about W3. Not because of anything that happened during WoW.

While the Horde has races that are born 100% in the Wow. For example the Forsaken.

It's the narratives that were created for the factions back in 2004.

The Horde has that "band of people, coming together. Those who were hunted, abandoned and attacked by the Alliance." With this, you create an interesting dynamic between the Horde and it's people.

The Alliance started out as a bunch of nobles coming together and that hasn't changed, but when something is made out to be "perfect", then changing that status quo is hard and then, perfect becomes boring very quickly.

[geco]

It's the narratives that were created for the factions back in 2004.

The Horde has that "band of people, coming together. Those who were hunted, abandoned and attacked by the Alliance." With this, you create an interesting dynamic between the Horde and it's people.

The Alliance started out as a bunch of nobles coming together and that hasn't changed, but when something is made out to be "perfect", then changing that status quo is hard and then, perfect becomes boring very quickly.

It's not just 2004. The alliance in 2004 had flaws and interesting things and interesting conflicts that WoW actively ignored.
Maiev and Tyrande were in a conflict to the death that was resolved with a dialogue.

The Forsaken or the Trolls had evolved in the history of WoW to a more humane and more noble character but without completely losing their roots.
The dwarfs and Genomes are there.

The "Improvement" of the Kaldorei was to go back to being the Kaldorei of W3. Every step they took in WoW was bad.

[Tanaria]

It's not just 2004. The alliance in 2004 had flaws and interesting things and interesting conflicts that WoW actively ignored.
Maiev and Tyrande were in a conflict to the death that was resolved with a dialogue.

The Forsaken or the Trolls had evolved in the history of WoW to a more humane and more noble character but without completely losing their roots.
The dwarfs and Genomes are there.

The "Improvement" of the Kaldorei was to go back to being the Kaldorei of W3. Every step they took in WoW was bad.

Well the issue with the whole Maiev/Tyrande thing is that after Illidan was taken down in TBC, Maiev disappeared and we didn't know if she was an Alliance affiliated character or...what actually happened to her. She just left.

It wasn't until a novel, where we find out she returned to Kaldorei lands and then...started killing shen'dralar.

I am happy that Maiev is part of the Alliance because at the moment, she is one of very few characters who could shake things up and make the Alliance interesting.

[geco]

Well the issue with the whole Maiev/Tyrande thing is that after Illidan was taken down in TBC, Maiev disappeared and we didn't know if she was an Alliance affiliated character or...what actually happened to her. She just left.

It wasn't until a novel, where we find out she returned to Kaldorei lands and then...started killing shen'dralar.

I am happy that Maiev is part of the Alliance because at the moment, she is one of very few characters who could shake things up and make the Alliance interesting.

The Conflict you mention starts when Tyrande kills Maiev's Wardens. (W3)
Then you continue as you say and then it is forgotten by Blizzard for BFA.

I'm not saying Maiev and Tyrande get along badly. I say you had a good story there that was not used. Instead of having 3 zones for humans and more humans. In BFA you could have an internal plot of Tyrande recruiting Maiev or a Tyrande-Anduin Conflict.

Instead we have a conflict and internal plot of the Horde and the Alliance has to well… what did it have?

[Tanaria]

The Conflict you mention starts when Tyrande kills Maiev's Wardens. (W3)
Then you continue as you say and then it is forgotten by Blizzard for BFA.

I'm not saying Maiev and Tyrande get along badly. I say you had a good story there that was not used. Instead of having 3 zones for humans and more humans. In BFA you could have an internal plot of Tyrande recruiting Maiev or a Tyrande-Anduin Conflict.

Instead we have a conflict and internal plot of the Horde and the Alliance has to well… what did it have?

But then we go back to the whole "noble" idea again.

The issue we have is that Alliance fans, beyond this site, are extremely quick to point out how the Alliance would act and this creates another array of issues because how they believe the Alliance would act is often boring, perfect and "noble."

If we just had Maiev marching into Azshara so the Alliance could claim the Port Nendis from W3 to re-start the Kaldorei Navy and slaughters any Goblin, Orc or Horde elf that gets in her way, then that is positive story. Blizzard would only need to listen to the fans of Maiev in this and know she is completely in-character. Ignore the Alliance fans, who'd kick off because Maiev isn't a character that "represents the good Alliance!"

[Mace]

It's just that even those races are pretty little explored.
The Kaldorei are interesting... if they are interesting because of things we know about W3. Not because of anything that happened during WoW.

While the Horde has races that are born 100% in the Wow. For example the Forsaken.

Night elves had an incredible story and a culmination in wc3.

The introduction had so much lore to it, an entire pre sundering history, the sundering, how magic came about, where the elves came from and their true nature, the incredible state of both the pre sundering era, and the long vigil era and the events that start and end both.

So much detail, they had 3 books to tell and 1 video game they play a huge role in - it was quite a bang and quite the package - truly epic scale if the kind they just don't do any longer.


Wow stagnated them greatly, their story wasn't advanced much, they were often ignored, synonymous, in stark contrast to the type of race that was showcased.

They did get advancement, but in dribs and drabs, most of the time they were ignored and boring purple skinned humans like every other alliance race.

Still they did get some advancement, but even Legion that was supposed to visit their story again as a primary focus, abandoned them after the Nighthold raid despite the humongous ramifications of Legion, they were completely ignored then used as the victims for the 3rd time in a row to write tragedy and spin a horde story.

All that potential and diversity and richness largely ignored.


They should be a huge and powerful faction incapable of being confined nor limited by the alliance and often seizing initiatives and whipping their allies into taking responsible action as well as callin g them to account for their behaviour - (but off course who would have thought blizzard would just blend the alliance), and this should cause no small amount of tension, having haters within their own faction as well as abroad, perceived as fussy, bossy know it alls who oretend not to interfere but are there in everyone's faces demanding action against global threats, and threatening others too if they shape up or don't fall in line

At least that is one direction they could have gone with rather than the barely relevant role and whipping boys role they got

[geco]

But then we go back to the whole "noble" idea again.

The issue we have is that Alliance fans, beyond this site, are extremely quick to point out how the Alliance would act and this creates another array of issues because how they believe the Alliance would act is often boring, perfect and "noble."

If we just had Maiev marching into Azshara so the Alliance could claim the Port Nendis from W3 to re-start the Kaldorei Navy and slaughters any Goblin, Orc or Horde elf that gets in her way, then that is positive story. Blizzard would only need to listen to the fans of Maiev in this and know she is completely in-character. Ignore the Alliance fans, who'd kick off because Maiev isn't a character that "represents the good Alliance!"

Or is that another problem. But you're right that most Alliance PCs just aren't cut out for a good story anymore.

Night elves had an incredible story and a culmination in wc3....

And as our friend points out. Of the two important races of the Alliance. It really is only one.
Humans.

The Kaldorei are a W3 story that Blizzar consciously doesn't want to tell.
____________

Conclusion according to me. The Alliance is a single race, with all the interesting conflicts removed and all of its characters are boring and repetitive.

I see 3 problems to solve XD

[Tanaria]

Or is that another problem. But you're right that most Alliance PCs just aren't cut out for a good story anymore.



And as our friend points out. Of the two important races of the Alliance. It really is only one.
Humans.

The Kaldorei are a W3 story that Blizzar consciously doesn't want to tell.
____________

Conclusion according to me. The Alliance is a single race, with all the interesting conflicts removed and all of its characters are boring and repetitive.

I see 3 problems to solve XD

Do you think, that the problem with this is the WoTLK story for the Alliance?

Let me explain - the Alliance story in WoTLK was primarily Human and we can't lie, it was one of the best stories in WoW to date. Their were lots of connections to Stormwind, Lordaeron, Dalaran for quite obvious reasons.
Due to the success of this Human-driven story - do you think this is where Blizzard went slightly off-the-rails when it came to the Human-driven story in the expansions that followed Wrath?

[geco]

Do you think, that the problem with this is the WoTLK story for the Alliance?

Let me explain - the Alliance story in WoTLK was primarily Human and we can't lie, it was one of the best stories in WoW to date. Their were lots of connections to Stormwind, Lordaeron, Dalaran for quite obvious reasons.
Due to the success of this Human-driven story - do you think this is where Blizzard went slightly off-the-rails when it came to the Human-driven story in the expansions that followed Wrath?

I will not lie. At that time I was "poor" I couldn't play that story XD

But from what I know. I don't think it's a bad thing that you have a race-centric story. But um...since Woltk how many non-human centered alliance stories have we had?

Yes, you may be right in what you say. I'd say it's Varian's fault.

[Tanaria]

I will not lie. At that time I was poor I couldn't play that story XD

But from what I know. I don't think it's a bad thing that you have a race-centric story. But um...since Woltk how many non-human centered alliance stories have we had?

Yes, you may be right in what you say. I'd say it's Varian's fault.

It's not really the characters' fault per say.

It's that Blizzard focused so much time into Varian, Jaina, Anduin etc - that now, the others have been totally neglected.
Due to the success of WoTLK with Varian and Jaina's involvement, I'd say this could have been the start of things going downhill for the Alliance narrative.

Even though the players are screaming "enough with the Humans" the writers are just not listening. To me, it's like they see WoTLK as a success and the characters involved in that as a success, that they think every expansion, narrative-wise will be a success because of them.

Now this doesn't just apply to the Alliance as we've suffered Sylvanas for the past 2 expansions and she was a big character in WoTLK as well.

[geco]

It's not really the characters' fault per say.

It's that Blizzard focused so much time into Varian, Jaina, Anduin etc - that now, the others have been totally neglected.
Due to the success of WoTLK with Varian and Jaina's involvement, I'd say this could have been the start of things going downhill for the Alliance narrative.

Even though the players are screaming "enough with the Humans" the writers are just not listening. To me, it's like they see WoTLK as a success and the characters involved in that as a success, that they think every expansion, narrative-wise will be a success because of them.

Now this doesn't just apply to the Alliance as we've suffered Sylvanas for the past 2 expansions and she was a big character in WoTLK as well.

Exact. Varian was written taking things away from the other races. Due to the lack of capacity of the writers.

I still remember when Malfurion says that he is happy because Varian will be there to take care of his race when he dies....

Anduin and his children will die before Malfurion.

Just as the Alliance is 80% human and Kaldorei doesn't help Blizzard change either.
Perhaps all you have to do is try those two races and give up on the others.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/

I mean seriously 15 humans 11 Kaldorei. 14 the other four races together.

[Mace]

Or is that another problem. But you're right that most Alliance PCs just aren't cut out for a good story anymore.



And as our friend points out. Of the two important races of the Alliance. It really is only one.
Humans.

The Kaldorei are a W3 story that Blizzar consciously doesn't want to tell.
____________

Conclusion according to me. The Alliance is a single race, with all the interesting conflicts removed and all of its characters are boring and repetitive.

I see 3 problems to solve XD

Stories are meant to end and then new ones start, despite such an impactful introduction and back story, with 3 novels in the bag, little to nothing was done.

And they were a very very popular race, they just ignored...I suspect because they were alliance and they didnt want the alliance more popular, so ditched them larger

[geco]

Stories are meant to end and then new ones start.

Not in WoW. In WoW the stories are canceled and they take away your desire to start a new one.

Personally, I'm tired for my bad. I'm not interested in reading the next one until the Kaldorei revenge story is finished.

[Tanaria]

Not in WoW. In WoW the stories are canceled and they take away your desire to start a new one.

Personally, I'm tired for my bad. I'm not interested in reading the next one until the Kaldorei revenge story is finished.

A story which could have ended in Shadowlands, with the night elf home being fully established on Hyjal.

Alliance players do that.
Horde players go back to Lordaeron.

Both quests unlock the Darkfallen skin with Delaryn returning to the Alliance and being welcomed back by Tyrande. Her undeath though, will forever remain.

[Mace]

A story which could have ended in Shadowlands, with the night elf home being fully established on Hyjal.

Alliance players do that.
Horde players go back to Lordaeron.

Both quests unlock the Darkfallen skin with Delaryn returning to the Alliance and being welcomed back by Tyrande. Her undeath though, will forever remain.

@geco WotA trilogy - The Sundering was the end of one story for the kaldorei
Wc3 was the end of another story (think of it like Stsr Wars, this race is introduced to you in the middle , then the prequels are released I the War of the Ancie ts trilogy
WoW - then starts the story of the sequel - which is the main story that continues it's a rolling story even though a genocide happens in war of thorns, we wre still in the same age..

However you could conclude Legion ends a story
War of Thorns begins a new one for the kaldorei as part of this new age.


The hope is that it will end up being the best age of the kaldorei, combining the best of the pre sundering and the best of the long vigil era as characterising the best of the dark elf fantasy and the best of the forest elf fantasy that the night elves are created to be, but which the players havent fully experienced.

They've experienced the kaldorei fall 3 times, but never experienced them rise.


Well, we have seen the humans rise, the orcs rise, the blood elves rise, the tauren too, the dwarves, the darkspears - many races that had experience falls have been rising in wow, some with knockbacks. Even the gnomes have progressed.


So let's hope the night elves get something remarkable, no, several remarkable thing. Let each expansion bring growth and increase where we see them have positive and exciting developments enough to surpass the devastating losses theyve given to the fans since the1st invasion of the Legion

[Tanaria]

So let's hope the night elves get something remarkable, no, several remarkable thing. Let each expansion bring growth and increase where we see them have positive and exciting developments enough to surpass the devastating losses theyve given to the fans since the1st invasion of the Legion

I hope that come 11.0, it's a total Azeroth (Kalimdor + Eastern Kingdoms update) for all races.

Night Elf fans have the new night elf home.
Blood Elf fans have the long awaited, Quel'Thalas update
Draenei fans have the long awaited, Azuremyst Isles update
Forsaken fans have Lordaeron updated.

We of course get more updated for Humans, Dwarves, Orcs, Tauren etc.

Further racial developments like Draenei/Lightforged, Night Elf/Void Elf, Blood Elf/Darkfallen/Nightborne, Forsaken/Darkfallen Elves involved in the new starter zones for the races.

Example: The Sin'dorei sanctums channel the leyline energy across Quel'Thalas - if the Blood Elves were to lose the Sunwell to the Void and have it replaced by a large Arcane/Blood Crystal, Arcanist Valtrois could be a lead character in channeling the leyline energy throughout Eversong and the Sanctums - connecting it to the new source of power, in place of the permanently lost Sunwell. A small group of Shal'dorei leyline warpcasters are on-hand to help Rommath, Aethas and the Magisters.
To the South - the Farstriders could be working with the Thalassian Dark Rangers in dealing with a rising Amani threat, that has resurfaced. The Zandalari have kicked the Amani out of their lands due to hostility and they have returned in greater numbers, led by an evil High Priestess of the Amani, who channels dark void-like powers.

The player could actually start in the South and they work their way up through Quel'Thalas. The South contains a lot of Farstrider based lore, whilst the North contains a lot of the Magister based lore. The Blood Knights could make a final stand on Quel'Danas, but they ultimately fail in their quest to protect the Sunwell.

Example 2: The Scarlet Crusade is on the rise and with it, both the Deathguard and the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow are called into action. High Priest Sarvonis is in communication with Natalie Seline, who helps the Forsaken player rid Lordaeron of the Light-blinded fools. Lillian Voss is also on-hand who leads the Deathguard in assaulting the Scarlet Point in West Tirisfal, driving the Crusaders to the coast...the general hope is that they find watery graves and nothing more.
Meanwhile, Scourge still populates the land and the Horde Darkfallen Kaldorei, along with Belmont and his Forsaken Rogues go to Silverpine to deal with the uprising threat. A Human Necromancer, trying to rebuild the Cult of the Damned, has taken up residence on Fenris Isle, killing the Alliance locals and raising any he could into mindless ghouls and zombies. Due to the Kaldorei's stealthiness abilities in the forest and Belmont knowing this land - the group are successful and Northern Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken and to the Horde. We also get to see more of Belmont's past, whilst he was living man.

[geco]

I hope that come 11.0, it's a total Azeroth (Kalimdor + Eastern Kingdoms update) for all races.

Night Elf fans have the new night elf home.
Blood Elf fans have the long awaited, Quel'Thalas update
Draenei fans have the long awaited, Azuremyst Isles update
Forsaken fans have Lordaeron updated.

We of course get more updated for Humans, Dwarves, Orcs, Tauren etc.

Further racial developments like Draenei/Lightforged, Night Elf/Void Elf, Blood Elf/Darkfallen/Nightborne, Forsaken/Darkfallen Elves involved in the new starter zones for the races.

Example: The Sin'dorei sanctums channel the leyline energy across Quel'Thalas - if the Blood Elves were to lose the Sunwell to the Void and have it replaced by a large Arcane/Blood Crystal, Arcanist Valtrois could be a lead character in channeling the leyline energy throughout Eversong and the Sanctums - connecting it to the new source of power, in place of the permanently lost Sunwell. A small group of Shal'dorei leyline warpcasters are on-hand to help Rommath, Aethas and the Magisters.
To the South - the Farstriders could be working with the Thalassian Dark Rangers in dealing with a rising Amani threat, that has resurfaced. The Zandalari have kicked the Amani out of their lands due to hostility and they have returned in greater numbers, led by an evil High Priestess of the Amani, who channels dark void-like powers.

The player could actually start in the South and they work their way up through Quel'Thalas. The South contains a lot of Farstrider based lore, whilst the North contains a lot of the Magister based lore. The Blood Knights could make a final stand on Quel'Danas, but they ultimately fail in their quest to protect the Sunwell.

Example 2: The Scarlet Crusade is on the rise and with it, both the Deathguard and the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow are called into action. High Priest Sarvonis is in communication with Natalie Seline, who helps the Forsaken player rid Lordaeron of the Light-blinded fools. Lillian Voss is also on-hand who leads the Deathguard in assaulting the Scarlet Point in West Tirisfal, driving the Crusaders to the coast...the general hope is that they find watery graves and nothing more.
Meanwhile, Scourge still populates the land and the Horde Darkfallen Kaldorei, along with Belmont and his Forsaken Rogues go to Silverpine to deal with the uprising threat. A Human Necromancer, trying to rebuild the Cult of the Damned, has taken up residence on Fenris Isle, killing the Alliance locals and raising any he could into mindless ghouls and zombies. Due to the Kaldorei's stealthiness abilities in the forest and Belmont knowing this land - the group are successful and Northern Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken and to the Horde. We also get to see more of Belmont's past, whilst he was living man.

I have the hope of the same but I would divide it into two expansions.
Because I don't think Blizzar is capable of serving so many races at once.

He would say one from Eastern Kingdoms and one from Kalimndor.