What are the best ways to make the Alliance more popular and interesting?

[Tanaria]

And what exactly do you so like about Maiev - I don't believe you would bat an eyelid if she was removed from the game, or if the night elves were all wiped out. But that doesn't mean you may not like what you see of her. I would like to know exactly what that is. Crazy deranged Maiev, broken by the events of the first invasion of the legion when her city, Suramar and the rest of her family were butchered and murdered by the legion.

Archetype and true to her character all the way up to legion when her actions result in the AU Gul'dan managing to open that portal. While I like what she has done since, she is not my gal. I'd like to know what you like about her, knowing full well you don't care for the night elves. And yes, I am fully aware that you can have an opinion and even like characters on races you don't care much about. I like Vol'jin, but don't give a toss about the Darkspears.

Because she's full of issues.
She's not a perfect girl as we've seen. She's been wrote as being racist towards Blood Elves and I loved it!

She is uncaring, ruthless and brings a side to the Night elves that no other race has.

No other elf race has the Wardens. Blood Elves have Farstriders, Nightborne have Nighthunters - neither have a specific and ferocious group like the Night Elven Wardens.
Sylavans' judgement - it was only Maiev that looked the most intimidating because she had her full armor on and you couldn't see her face. Just her owl-crested Helmet, looking at the Banshee as she walked towards her judgement.

Maiev Shadowsong and the Wardens in general, will always be my 3rd favorite character.

And you don't seemingly want me to be a night elf fan because I like a night elf you don't?
How about this - I stick to what I like and you stick to what you like.

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What does such a subjective analysis prove? That the Highborne groups amongst the night elves are less than those that beacme high elves so you can feel more superior t them and knowkc the night elven ones because they are alliance and your enemies?

Really?

Let's see you find a quote where blizzard says Elite doesn't carry the same emphasis as revered" - I mean you ask me to do such silly things too. It's only fair I return the favour.

It's just my opinion - hence why I said "seem to carry." I didn't say, "it doesn't."

Plus, a lot of Highborne were aware of what was going on in Zin-Azshari, but yet - their were many who Azshara didn't tell.

Indeed, with the Shen'dralar not showing any signs of corruption towards fel magic, they could have been the ones (in that regard), who could have easily summoned more of the demons and potentially brought Sargeras into the world. They all could have refused Xavius' offer because they were Azshara's only Highborne who could control fel magic to the extent. Not even Illidan, his Demon Hunters, the Blood Elves or the Nightborne could hide their fel usage.
But that's only going off what we know about one of their feat of canon strengths - no visible signs of fel corruption. I am just speculating because we honestly don't know because they weren't there.

The Shandaral Highborne - again, we don't know anything about them until after the Sundering when they were killed by the Blue Dragons.

[Mace]

And you completely miss the parts regarding the Wardens and Maiev Shadowsong because she doesn't relate to Night Elf Arcane stuff. Read what I have said. The best elite Kaldorei defenders ever.

No, we haven't been talking about them, because you seem to only have a problem when it comes to night elves being masters of the arcane, and this is where you always argue and question - naturally that is what we end up talking about - should i mention Maiev out of the blue? You seem to miss the druids, priests and others when other people mention them, almost always responding to arcane comments that somehow would lead to a favourable view or highlight how good night elves are at this - and challenge them as if to say, no they aren't .. only the horde blood elves and those they consider friends are great.

And I don't see how I can praise things where their is no evidence in the lore.

And yet you do all the time, especially when you talk about the blood elves and start going off on how incredible they are and what should happen or shouldn't happen to them.

The biggest known accomplishment of the Shen'dralar is that they weren't corrupted by the fel nor did they show any signs of fel corruption.

can't see how subjective this is, stating an opinion as fact, and accusing me of always doing this, when I at least phrase my projections, deductions as that. You consider not being corrupted by fel as a great accomplishment. Despite knowing this is the group that engineered the top projects of the Queen - the driving force of the wonders of the kaldorei civilization. Yet you feel their greatest accomplishment is not being fel corrupted?

how could they be fel corrupted - Immol'thar corrupted them, but it wasn't a fel demon, and I'm sure they filtered that out in their pylons if so, because they clearly didn't get corrupted, but it is one of many many things you can deduce about them from what we are told, yet you even turn a positive thing derogatory - framing it as "their greatest accomplishments"

i mean I would certainly count staving off destruction from a full scale legion invasion when every other city fell to it as a bigger accomplishment, not to count the things they would have done for their civilization. But yeh, keep knocking em cause they are alliance and are night elves and so you view them as your enemies because you are a blood elf fan, and on the horde and you bought into blizzard's faction war, but forgot to keep it strictly to in character only.

Yes, they wielded it and had to wean themselves off it once the Horde exiled them, but unlike Orcs, Blood Elves, Draenei and Nightborne - they were no visible signs of fel corruption. That is an accomplishment.
Now they had to wean themselves off it, so fel - like for everyone else, had an impact on them and not in a good way.

Quite an achievement, hardly the greatest. Want to praise their magical accomplishments? I thought so.

The Highborne as a whole created a huge empire, but this wasn't down to this one group in Dire Maul. We have no evidence because "revered" appears so much during that era for Eldre'Thalas, Vashj'ir, Suramar - whereas in Zin-Azshari, we see the word "Elite" used. Personally, I put "elite" above "revered."

Oh so now, revered is meaningless or cheap now, because it giving the Shen'dralar importance upsets you, because they are the most revered arcanist. So now you seek to undermine them by making revered seem insignificant.

or does it fail to occur to you how incredibly remarkable a people or group would have been to survive both the 1st invasion of the legion and the sundering, when it felled Azeroth's greatest civilization by a humanoid race to date. A civilization that 10,000 years on is still regarded as matchless and unequalled. You damn right revered used for any surviving night elf group would mean they are damn special. Tag most revered, and it shows you the calibre, but did they end there? No, the ones who engineer the top projects of the Queen who comes out with the greatest feats - showing you they were the ones behind them, the ones who also kept the most powerful tomes and scrolls of magic - which they would know all of them, added to the fact they've had an additional 10,000 years to learn more since that knowledge, craved by but lost and forgotten to the known world is sitting in their heads.

And you think they're an insignificant group with not much to them - Fully aware that without the aid of an impregnable shield or thousands of years of research managed to figure out how to use the arcane power up their city and have it detection free from both the magic of very smart mage turn druid night elves, dragons and wild gods in Kalimdor, not to mention the legion, a feat the high elves only achieved much later on with the Ban'dinoriel.


You seem to have a problem with them being great, it's that simple, I chalk it down to some weird rivalry jealousy, and I think it's silly to have in this situation, especially since you are a blood elf fan. If you were a human fan or say an ardent Eredar fan, i might understand, even though in the larger scheme of things, still find it silly seeing this is just a video game and they are all make- believe.


But you just seem to resent that the kaldorei are night elves. Highborne are night elves, Nightborne are night elven, and all blood/high elves are descended from night elves. You should be celebrating with me, not feeling undermined, threatened and certainly not jealous. The accomplishments aof the blood elves are astounding. No they're not greater than the kaldorei in terms of level, scope, power and achievement - but in terms of effort and tenacity, cunning - they outsttrip.

THe high elves accomplished what they did under much more difficult circumstances, and operating at reduced capacity - just because what they built isn't s great as their night elven counterparts in scope you shouldn't feel threatened.. for what they had - a small well based off a vial, diminished capacity when devolving into high elves, constant threats from trolls and others in a conflict ridden 7,000 year period. to establish, protect Quel'Thalas, still oppose and hide from the demons, fight them, teach humans, police the opening of Azeroth to demons as well as they did - is incredible.

Sure the night elves may have done more, but I consider the high elves to be the greater because of what they did with a lot less. If they had had the WEll of Eternity resources and not devolved to high elves, they'd have likely outstripped the kaldorei empire in every way, and would have dealt more easily with those that challenged them.

But what you want , is not what the story shows, you want the blood elves kingdom to be the biggest and most powerful and most beautiful , most magically advanced and it isn't, the kaldorei one was, and the blood elven ancestors played a part in that, so you can feel proud of the kaldroei accomplishments. No Silvermoon and Quel'thalas was not as spectacular or accomplished as the kaldorei civilization. They lost 90% of thier knowledge after the sundering. The Shen'dralar and Nightborne did not. But for such losses look at what they accomplished..this is what is impressive, not how big their wonders were or the extent of their cities or scope of their empire.

To date, if the blood elves had the same means, they'd have done more. BUt they didn't get the same means, and now the night elves, who had given up on all that to either fight the legion (Darnassians) or just research magic (Shen'dralar) or get drunk on it (Nightborne) have now all emerged and now quite keen on developing themselves once again, which they weren't. And lest you forget, that the blood elves come from the same stock, these groups come from. Night elves.

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Because she's full of issues.
She's not a perfect girl as we've seen. She's been wrote as being racist towards Blood Elves and I loved it!

She is uncaring, ruthless and brings a side to the Night elves that no other race has.

What maniacal and crazy? is that the side no other "race" has?

Uncaring and ruthless - is not MAieve, Maiev does care a lot, but she can be ruthless - so have other night elves proven - or did you forget the opeiniong introduction in WC3 - when they simply slaughtered every human or orc that came into the forest - because the goal of protecting the well from others was that important to them, a people like that would not hesitate to kill treaspassers, especially ones stinking of fel corruption like the orcs were.


But fair enough, you like her ruthless edge, a side the night elves always had, but it just wasn't shown that often in wow - it is supposed to be juxtaposed on their super caring benevolent side - as a character dichotomy of the race. It's part of what makes them them. By design. Do not take the lack of seeing htis side in WoW as proof that it isn't htere or has been retconned.

However thank you for telling me your thoughts. Fair enough

No other elf race has the Wardens. Blood Elves have Farstriders, Nightborne have Nighthunters - neither have a specific and ferocious group like the Night Elven Wardens.

This is what I love about Warcaraft and Warhammer, when they make races have unique thigns. No other races has star aracne magic either, or calls down stars and moon in powerulf ways, has this star orientated and celestial focus either.

No other fel using group actually is like the demon hunters, night elves who use fel to destroy demons, use deons, consume demons all to destroy the legion. Unlike warlocks, they are not fascinated by the power to rule and dominate, but rather to destory the legion utterly in vengeance and retribution for destroying their homeland

That's unique.

Want me to on about how unique is a society where females are warriors/hunters and it is a female led priesthood that leasd such a society?

or do you need me to o on about how unique the night elven interpretation of druidism is, let alone the arcane and it's tsar association. Until the night leves, nature love was viewed through tlens of our modern world interpretation or the tribal expression in shamanistic societies in wow. The night elves brought a completely new expression to this never before seen in wow.

WAs it only druidism that was to be unique? Was it only unique aspects in this race? No there were things that they had other races had too, in fact, they were the first to have done civilziation and magic. Many races have this too, but tha't snot mean that their version isn't important or unique. And their version of it was incredible, the lore says, the best ever done by any race.. and the first of its kind to that extent anyway.

What are you trying to say? Spit on them all you like, the elves were really thought out and made unique. That dark elf/forest elf combination with a star/moon focus is quite unique rendition of elves, and good dark elves too - even for the fantasy brand.

Why you only like the savage parts of them, but spit on the benevolence, ignore or undermine the arcane side - I find difficult ot understand if I didn't know the mentality of fans, and human emotions like jealousy and rivalry.

Sylavans' judgement - it was only Maiev that looked the most intimidating because she had her full armor on and you couldn't see her face. Just her owl-crested Helmet, looking at the Banshee as she walked towards her judgement.

Maiev Shadowsong and the Wardens in general, will always be my 3rd favorite character.

And you don't seemingly want me to be a night elf fan because I like a night elf you don't?
How about this - I stick to what I like and you stick to what you like.

For your thrid fave character you don't seem to talk about her much at all, but fair enough, if you say you like her, I can't argue with you.

It's just my opinion - hence why I said "seem to carry." I didn't say, "it doesn't."

Yes, so you do know the meaning of words like that. But let's not try to diminish what revered means so we can make the shend'ralar seem less important.

Plus, a lot of Highborne were aware of what was going on in Zin-Azshari, but yet - their were many who Azshara didn't tell.

Who knows, The Azsuna quests helps us understand why places like Eldre'thalas were so reluctant to join the fight, yet..every city was assaulted, with the queen's consent, except Zin'Azsahri. Half of Suramar survived and all of Eldre'thalas. The rest were destroyed.

Highborne or no, aware or no. One thing that seems clear though is that many Highborne outside the capital were not in agreement with the queen. WotA trilogy also shows us many night elves, Highborne included were alarmed at the use of the well during that period too, there were concerns. The Azsuna quest line does show that those further away from the influence of the queen had some sense to them. It helps explains another reason why she didn't spare the other cities even though her Highborne class would have been rulers in every single one of them. (well likely rulers - there were non Highborne rulers and aristocrats, like Lord Ravencrest - alluding to a far more complex society than the simplified Highborne/non Highborne we have.)

Indeed, with the Shen'dralar not showing any signs of corruption towards fel magic, they could have been the ones (in that regard), who could have easily summoned more of the demons and potentially brought Sargeras into the world. They all could have refused Xavius' offer because they were Azshara's only Highborne who could control fel magic to the extent. Not even Illidan, his Demon Hunters, the Blood Elves or the Nightborne could hide their fel usage.
But that's only going off what we know about one of their feat of canon strengths - no visible signs of fel corruption. I am just speculating because we honestly don't know because they weren't there.

The Shandaral Highborne - again, we don't know anything about them until after the Sundering when they were killed by the Blue Dragons.

You should recognise that every elf, Highborne or not that rebelled against the queen and fought her were remarkable.. and before anyone looks down on the non-Highborne night elves, they should remember that a good chunk of the army that fought the legion were Moonguard and Highborne too, even if the palace and capital sided with the Queen. they should remember both Farondis and Eldre'thalas who also rebelled in addition to Suramar's Highborne who didn't stand with the Queen. Finally Menaar 's Highborne, which may have been the origin town/city of the Sunstrider line.

[Tanaria]

SNIP

Ok whatever.

I'm done with this elf talk now because this is about ways to make the Alliance better.
Not "lets talk about night elves!" Because the fact is - every thread either devolves into arguments about sylvanas and night elves.

[geco]

Ok whatever.

I'm done with this elf talk now because this is about ways to make the Alliance better.
Not "lets talk about night elves!" Because the fact is - every thread either devolves into arguments about sylvanas and night elves.

This is precisely the biggest problem of the alliance. I can have this discussion about Kaldorei, Trolls, Oros, Forsaken, Taurens and maybe humans. But about almost no Alliance race.

Almost every race in the Alliance has a single point of view and sometimes not even that.

There are more negotiations and Alliances within the Kaldorei than in all of the rest of the Alliance.

[Tanaria]

This is precisely the biggest problem of the alliance. I can have this discussion about Kaldorei, Trolls, Oros, Forsaken, Taurens and maybe humans. But about almost no Alliance race.

Almost every race in the Alliance has a single point of view and sometimes not even that.

There are more negotiations and Alliances within the Kaldorei than in all of the rest of the Alliance.

The potential for the Alliance to be interesting is there.

But when their story just revolves around 2 races, whilst the Horde includes all the races - then "Houston we have a problem"

If you were to ignore the Humans and Night Elves (Tyrande mainly) for one expansion, I guarantee the Alliance story could be vastly more interesting.

[Loreth88]

The potential for the Alliance to be interesting is there.

But when their story just revolves around 2 races, whilst the Horde includes all the races - then "Houston we have a problem"

If you were to ignore the Humans and Night Elves (Tyrande mainly) for one expansion, I guarantee the Alliance story could be vastly more interesting.

No Alliance or night elf fan wanna that many expansion "around them". We wanna a proper representation in one expansion, not a punching bags for the Horde, so they can feel superior, or for humans so they show how the night elf so incompetent but the Humans are so great in every possible way. Or a druid expansion or patch use the night elf mounts and architectures, but not for them, but for the neutral group so every horde races can use it to and call it for their own.
Everything they got took it away, or getting humiliated.
They get the mages back, but the horde have more quest and interact with the new kaldorei mages then the kaldorei themselves . (mostly to kill them ofc.)
Get the wardens in Legion the new buildings and style with it and instant call them neutral. etc.
Get to Access to The Temple of the Moon in legion (tomb of sargeras) and yet no night elf have getting there ant interact with the ghost or going to reclaim the old library, objects or anything.
Getting many, but the only reason Blizz take them in game to use for anyone, but not for the race who have the connection with this things.

[geco]

The potential for the Alliance to be interesting is there.

But when their story just revolves around 2 races, whilst the Horde includes all the races - then "Houston we have a problem"

If you were to ignore the Humans and Night Elves (Tyrande mainly) for one expansion, I guarantee the Alliance story could be vastly more interesting.

It's just that even those races are pretty little explored.
The Kaldorei are interesting... if they are interesting because of things we know about W3. Not because of anything that happened during WoW.

While the Horde has races that are born 100% in the Wow. For example the Forsaken.

[Tanaria]

It's just that even those races are pretty little explored.
The Kaldorei are interesting... if they are interesting because of things we know about W3. Not because of anything that happened during WoW.

While the Horde has races that are born 100% in the Wow. For example the Forsaken.

It's the narratives that were created for the factions back in 2004.

The Horde has that "band of people, coming together. Those who were hunted, abandoned and attacked by the Alliance." With this, you create an interesting dynamic between the Horde and it's people.

The Alliance started out as a bunch of nobles coming together and that hasn't changed, but when something is made out to be "perfect", then changing that status quo is hard and then, perfect becomes boring very quickly.

[geco]

It's the narratives that were created for the factions back in 2004.

The Horde has that "band of people, coming together. Those who were hunted, abandoned and attacked by the Alliance." With this, you create an interesting dynamic between the Horde and it's people.

The Alliance started out as a bunch of nobles coming together and that hasn't changed, but when something is made out to be "perfect", then changing that status quo is hard and then, perfect becomes boring very quickly.

It's not just 2004. The alliance in 2004 had flaws and interesting things and interesting conflicts that WoW actively ignored.
Maiev and Tyrande were in a conflict to the death that was resolved with a dialogue.

The Forsaken or the Trolls had evolved in the history of WoW to a more humane and more noble character but without completely losing their roots.
The dwarfs and Genomes are there.

The "Improvement" of the Kaldorei was to go back to being the Kaldorei of W3. Every step they took in WoW was bad.

[Tanaria]

It's not just 2004. The alliance in 2004 had flaws and interesting things and interesting conflicts that WoW actively ignored.
Maiev and Tyrande were in a conflict to the death that was resolved with a dialogue.

The Forsaken or the Trolls had evolved in the history of WoW to a more humane and more noble character but without completely losing their roots.
The dwarfs and Genomes are there.

The "Improvement" of the Kaldorei was to go back to being the Kaldorei of W3. Every step they took in WoW was bad.

Well the issue with the whole Maiev/Tyrande thing is that after Illidan was taken down in TBC, Maiev disappeared and we didn't know if she was an Alliance affiliated character or...what actually happened to her. She just left.

It wasn't until a novel, where we find out she returned to Kaldorei lands and then...started killing shen'dralar.

I am happy that Maiev is part of the Alliance because at the moment, she is one of very few characters who could shake things up and make the Alliance interesting.

[geco]

Well the issue with the whole Maiev/Tyrande thing is that after Illidan was taken down in TBC, Maiev disappeared and we didn't know if she was an Alliance affiliated character or...what actually happened to her. She just left.

It wasn't until a novel, where we find out she returned to Kaldorei lands and then...started killing shen'dralar.

I am happy that Maiev is part of the Alliance because at the moment, she is one of very few characters who could shake things up and make the Alliance interesting.

The Conflict you mention starts when Tyrande kills Maiev's Wardens. (W3)
Then you continue as you say and then it is forgotten by Blizzard for BFA.

I'm not saying Maiev and Tyrande get along badly. I say you had a good story there that was not used. Instead of having 3 zones for humans and more humans. In BFA you could have an internal plot of Tyrande recruiting Maiev or a Tyrande-Anduin Conflict.

Instead we have a conflict and internal plot of the Horde and the Alliance has to well… what did it have?

[Tanaria]

The Conflict you mention starts when Tyrande kills Maiev's Wardens. (W3)
Then you continue as you say and then it is forgotten by Blizzard for BFA.

I'm not saying Maiev and Tyrande get along badly. I say you had a good story there that was not used. Instead of having 3 zones for humans and more humans. In BFA you could have an internal plot of Tyrande recruiting Maiev or a Tyrande-Anduin Conflict.

Instead we have a conflict and internal plot of the Horde and the Alliance has to well… what did it have?

But then we go back to the whole "noble" idea again.

The issue we have is that Alliance fans, beyond this site, are extremely quick to point out how the Alliance would act and this creates another array of issues because how they believe the Alliance would act is often boring, perfect and "noble."

If we just had Maiev marching into Azshara so the Alliance could claim the Port Nendis from W3 to re-start the Kaldorei Navy and slaughters any Goblin, Orc or Horde elf that gets in her way, then that is positive story. Blizzard would only need to listen to the fans of Maiev in this and know she is completely in-character. Ignore the Alliance fans, who'd kick off because Maiev isn't a character that "represents the good Alliance!"

[Mace]

It's just that even those races are pretty little explored.
The Kaldorei are interesting... if they are interesting because of things we know about W3. Not because of anything that happened during WoW.

While the Horde has races that are born 100% in the Wow. For example the Forsaken.

Night elves had an incredible story and a culmination in wc3.

The introduction had so much lore to it, an entire pre sundering history, the sundering, how magic came about, where the elves came from and their true nature, the incredible state of both the pre sundering era, and the long vigil era and the events that start and end both.

So much detail, they had 3 books to tell and 1 video game they play a huge role in - it was quite a bang and quite the package - truly epic scale if the kind they just don't do any longer.


Wow stagnated them greatly, their story wasn't advanced much, they were often ignored, synonymous, in stark contrast to the type of race that was showcased.

They did get advancement, but in dribs and drabs, most of the time they were ignored and boring purple skinned humans like every other alliance race.

Still they did get some advancement, but even Legion that was supposed to visit their story again as a primary focus, abandoned them after the Nighthold raid despite the humongous ramifications of Legion, they were completely ignored then used as the victims for the 3rd time in a row to write tragedy and spin a horde story.

All that potential and diversity and richness largely ignored.


They should be a huge and powerful faction incapable of being confined nor limited by the alliance and often seizing initiatives and whipping their allies into taking responsible action as well as callin g them to account for their behaviour - (but off course who would have thought blizzard would just blend the alliance), and this should cause no small amount of tension, having haters within their own faction as well as abroad, perceived as fussy, bossy know it alls who oretend not to interfere but are there in everyone's faces demanding action against global threats, and threatening others too if they shape up or don't fall in line

At least that is one direction they could have gone with rather than the barely relevant role and whipping boys role they got

[geco]

But then we go back to the whole "noble" idea again.

The issue we have is that Alliance fans, beyond this site, are extremely quick to point out how the Alliance would act and this creates another array of issues because how they believe the Alliance would act is often boring, perfect and "noble."

If we just had Maiev marching into Azshara so the Alliance could claim the Port Nendis from W3 to re-start the Kaldorei Navy and slaughters any Goblin, Orc or Horde elf that gets in her way, then that is positive story. Blizzard would only need to listen to the fans of Maiev in this and know she is completely in-character. Ignore the Alliance fans, who'd kick off because Maiev isn't a character that "represents the good Alliance!"

Or is that another problem. But you're right that most Alliance PCs just aren't cut out for a good story anymore.

Night elves had an incredible story and a culmination in wc3....

And as our friend points out. Of the two important races of the Alliance. It really is only one.
Humans.

The Kaldorei are a W3 story that Blizzar consciously doesn't want to tell.
____________

Conclusion according to me. The Alliance is a single race, with all the interesting conflicts removed and all of its characters are boring and repetitive.

I see 3 problems to solve XD

[TriHard]

Allow only alliance players to use mods, ez

Solved it, u can thank me later

[Tanaria]

Or is that another problem. But you're right that most Alliance PCs just aren't cut out for a good story anymore.



And as our friend points out. Of the two important races of the Alliance. It really is only one.
Humans.

The Kaldorei are a W3 story that Blizzar consciously doesn't want to tell.
____________

Conclusion according to me. The Alliance is a single race, with all the interesting conflicts removed and all of its characters are boring and repetitive.

I see 3 problems to solve XD

Do you think, that the problem with this is the WoTLK story for the Alliance?

Let me explain - the Alliance story in WoTLK was primarily Human and we can't lie, it was one of the best stories in WoW to date. Their were lots of connections to Stormwind, Lordaeron, Dalaran for quite obvious reasons.
Due to the success of this Human-driven story - do you think this is where Blizzard went slightly off-the-rails when it came to the Human-driven story in the expansions that followed Wrath?

[geco]

Do you think, that the problem with this is the WoTLK story for the Alliance?

Let me explain - the Alliance story in WoTLK was primarily Human and we can't lie, it was one of the best stories in WoW to date. Their were lots of connections to Stormwind, Lordaeron, Dalaran for quite obvious reasons.
Due to the success of this Human-driven story - do you think this is where Blizzard went slightly off-the-rails when it came to the Human-driven story in the expansions that followed Wrath?

I will not lie. At that time I was "poor" I couldn't play that story XD

But from what I know. I don't think it's a bad thing that you have a race-centric story. But um...since Woltk how many non-human centered alliance stories have we had?

Yes, you may be right in what you say. I'd say it's Varian's fault.

[Tanaria]

I will not lie. At that time I was poor I couldn't play that story XD

But from what I know. I don't think it's a bad thing that you have a race-centric story. But um...since Woltk how many non-human centered alliance stories have we had?

Yes, you may be right in what you say. I'd say it's Varian's fault.

It's not really the characters' fault per say.

It's that Blizzard focused so much time into Varian, Jaina, Anduin etc - that now, the others have been totally neglected.
Due to the success of WoTLK with Varian and Jaina's involvement, I'd say this could have been the start of things going downhill for the Alliance narrative.

Even though the players are screaming "enough with the Humans" the writers are just not listening. To me, it's like they see WoTLK as a success and the characters involved in that as a success, that they think every expansion, narrative-wise will be a success because of them.

Now this doesn't just apply to the Alliance as we've suffered Sylvanas for the past 2 expansions and she was a big character in WoTLK as well.

[geco]

It's not really the characters' fault per say.

It's that Blizzard focused so much time into Varian, Jaina, Anduin etc - that now, the others have been totally neglected.
Due to the success of WoTLK with Varian and Jaina's involvement, I'd say this could have been the start of things going downhill for the Alliance narrative.

Even though the players are screaming "enough with the Humans" the writers are just not listening. To me, it's like they see WoTLK as a success and the characters involved in that as a success, that they think every expansion, narrative-wise will be a success because of them.

Now this doesn't just apply to the Alliance as we've suffered Sylvanas for the past 2 expansions and she was a big character in WoTLK as well.

Exact. Varian was written taking things away from the other races. Due to the lack of capacity of the writers.

I still remember when Malfurion says that he is happy because Varian will be there to take care of his race when he dies....

Anduin and his children will die before Malfurion.

Just as the Alliance is 80% human and Kaldorei doesn't help Blizzard change either.
Perhaps all you have to do is try those two races and give up on the others.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...cters-by-race/

I mean seriously 15 humans 11 Kaldorei. 14 the other four races together.

[Mace]

Or is that another problem. But you're right that most Alliance PCs just aren't cut out for a good story anymore.



And as our friend points out. Of the two important races of the Alliance. It really is only one.
Humans.

The Kaldorei are a W3 story that Blizzar consciously doesn't want to tell.
____________

Conclusion according to me. The Alliance is a single race, with all the interesting conflicts removed and all of its characters are boring and repetitive.

I see 3 problems to solve XD

Stories are meant to end and then new ones start, despite such an impactful introduction and back story, with 3 novels in the bag, little to nothing was done.

And they were a very very popular race, they just ignored...I suspect because they were alliance and they didnt want the alliance more popular, so ditched them larger