What are the best ways to make the Alliance more popular and interesting?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Also the leaders and governments should be seen dealing with the problems that their people face, and bring true solutions to help solve these issues and better the lives and security in their kingdom, rather than be seen mostly to deal with foreign issues and on the endless conflicts with the Horde.

This is especially grave in Stormwind's case with Varian and Anduin barely doing anything to actually rule, defend and better their kingdom.

[Niwes]

One of the major complaints about players regarding the Alliance - and why they favored the Horde, even back in the original game - was the Alliance seemed too bland or uninteresting, while the Horde was much more nuanced and complicated.

For example, many Horde players insist that lots of fantasy games, especially back then, did not allow you play as orcs, trolls or tauren, which was why they felt the Horde in World of Warcraft was so appealing and unique in that regard, the orcs were not simply rampaging monsters, but a conflicted people with an ancient culture and a proud history who struggled with their identity while fighting for survival.

While Stormwind humans were simply the default option for beginner players, the same old human protagonists who fought against monstrous-looking invaders, that were used over and over in most every fantasy franchise. The "traditional" Alliance races of humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves simply seemed much less fascinating and engaging to some people than the opposing races.

I can understand this, to some extent, having an interest in both factions lore-wise - even in Battle for Azeroth, Kul Tiras was a beautiful place, but Zandalar honestly seemed much richer and more deeply fleshed out, and much more original, and far superior even to most of the previous Horde cities. The playable Kul Tirans were basically somewhat more obese humans with a modified Gilnean accent (which is even more confusing, as Jaina, her brothers, her parents, Brother Pike, Lady Waycrest, most of the major Kul Tiran characters were portrayed as in fact fairly slender and thin human characters, so I don't know what they were trying to get at there).

Regarding the other Alliance races:
- The dwarves seemed too generic and even among most Alliance players never seemed that popular. The ever-loyal short human sidekicks with a weird accent.

- The night elves I think were the most interesting part of the Alliance, but their story has been heavily diluted since the Third War, and always seem extremely reliant on the assistance of the other Alliance kingdoms, especially Stormwind. Cenarius no longer cares about them and is friendly to the Horde, most of the Wild Gods are neutral; Nordrassil was nearly destroyed; their immortality is gone; the Temple of Elune and their capital Darnassus itself are both gone; Elune has lost most of her mysterious nature and is the sister of this newly introduced afterlife character, and did nothing to save their people; their race is now all but extinct. They've lost Teldrassil, and much of Darkshore and Ashenvale, and most of their civilian and military forces, and the Horde has them vastly outnumbered and surrounded on all sides.

Look at Wolfheart - in which even Tyrande was not able to help win the battle for the night elves, but Varian Wrynn came charging in at the last moment and saved them - or Mists of Pandaria, in which Varian taught Tyrande lessons in patience against the Horde. Some interesting elements such as the Highborne introduced in the Cataclysm, or the Wardens and demon hunters, seem to be almost never utilized in-game or heavily explored either.
https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...nowledge_seen/

- The gnomes, well...they are interesting, but I think most Alliance and Horde players are divided between those who intensely love them and those who intensely despise them. They also seem to be only in a background supporting role, Gelbin's appearance during that Zandalar cinematic was I think one of the few major appearances of gnome involvement, and they have yet to appear in any major expansion cinematic.

- The draenei also seemed to have been largely skimmed over with the exception of Legion (and I guess Draenor, but those draenei are now fanatics, and that world is long since lost, so I'm not sure if that still counts). Velen and most draenei characters had pretty much no role in Battle for Azeroth (Velen's greatest role was caring for refugees in Elegy), not showing up even for Battle for Darkshore; the Exodar itself was not mentioned whatsoever throughout the expansion and seemingly forgotten by both factions.

- The worgen provided an interesting twist, but they seem to be heavily ignored also after Cataclysm, with the exception of Genn Greymane, the token advisor at Anduin's side - their lands are STILL lost to them, so it's not like worgen players have much to look forward to either.

- The Tushui Pandaren other than Aysa's brief and stationary appearances with other Alliance leaders are not mentioned either.

- The Kingdom of Stromgarde seemed to have been rebuilt, but again, we saw nothing of this reflected in-game or in that novel.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._war/?sort=new

Even the new allied races, such as the Lightforged and void elves, don't really seem to be expounded too much, just a couple new fodder NPCs for Horde players during Faction Assaults perhaps, but not much more. For example, why is the Vindicaar entirely absent from the Fourth War, and how did the void elf population grow significantly in such a short period of time?

How do most Stormwind humans view the Kul Tirans, positively or negatively, and how do most Alliance races actually regard the dark iron dwarves and mechagnomes? Why are there next to no interactions between any of those allied races themselves? Why can't most Alliance players visit 3 of 5 Allied race zones? In fairness, the Horde has full and constant access to the entirety of Highmountain and Suramar, in addition to all of Zandalar, and the only inaccessible zone for most Horde players is the time-displaced Draenor for the Mag'har orcs.

Even during Battle for Azeroth - the Horde players at Level 120 still heavily outnumbered the Alliance players, both in guilds and individually, leading to a major gameplay imbalance between the two factions. Are there any ways to better address this to even the playing ground perhaps - and perhaps to improve and diversify the Alliance in general, such that it might appeal more broadly and deeply to most players?

the time to do something for Alliance is over, since a good while. here is why:

years (many) ago, Blizz had the chance to make the Alliance racials same good as the Horde ones. but they did not. the resulting effect was: many (also new or returning) people joined the Horde. even if Blizz would had changed it years later and gave Alliance better racials than Horde, it had changed nothing, because:

after a while Horde was the dominating faction (cause of above reason). most ppl, even when not interessted in min/maxing and therefore not care about racials, joined the Horde. because „there are the…“

- „…bigger servers“
- „…better players“
- „…the most ppls. all ppl play Horde, so do i.“

regardless how true or not this is, it’s in the mind of players. if you are new to wow, you look left and right and do what the majority does. and this leaded to an effect Blizz can not turn back.

so, imo, the simple truth is: Blizz missed the moment, when they still had the chance to turn things. after that moment it’s no more possible. because if they want to turn it back later, they had to make Alliance racials that absurd overpowered, to make many ppls leave Horde, just for that. after a while they can balance it again and have 50/50 factions then. but till this point they have to absurdly overpower Alliance. and this is something Blizz just can not do balance wise.

or in other words: what do you think Blizz can do in such an absurd size (regardless if attracting in values, dps, size, design, story, or whatever), so ppls embedded in the Horde faction would turn to Alliance, WITHOUT completely sacrificing balance (in value, dps, style, design, story or whatever) between the factions for a while? Blizz HAS to imbalance the factions, in an absurd way, to achieve this. and they will not do this.

result: they missed the moment and there is no turning back.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Show and use correctly the tensions and distrust that other Alliance races should feel toward the Worgens, both because of Grey Greymane and Gilneas' actions toward the Alliance and because of the Worgens' monstruous lupine appearance, aggressivity and bestiality; and toward the Dark Iron Dwarves due to them being long-time arch-enemies of the other dwarven clans, of them being also past enemies of the gnomes and humans, of their past affiliation with Ragnaros, of their use of dark magics and because of their backstabbing and scheming ways.

[geco]

Show and use correctly the tensions and distrust that other Alliance races should feel toward the Worgens, both because of Grey Greymane and Gilneas' actions toward the Alliance and because of the Worgens' monstruous lupine appearance, aggressivity and bestiality; and toward the Dark Iron Dwarves due to them being long-time arch-enemies of the other dwarven clans, of them being also past enemies of the gnomes and humans, of their past affiliation with Ragnaros, of their use of dark magics and because of their backstabbing and scheming ways.

The problem is that it's too late for that. Almost all races are late to show that they have some interesting theme. Because there was no good reason why it was not shown until today.

What is the point of the Void Elves showing their usefulness if when Nzoth came they didn't contribute anything?
How can the Alianz be useful to the Kaldorei not going to see another Teldrazzil?
Why after 10 years of trust are they only now distrusting the Warguens?

Many races of the alliance had something interesting with issues that have already passed or with the faction war that has already ended. (Or rather clearly WoW is not going to survive another)

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

The problem is that it's too late for that. Almost all races are late to show that they have some interesting theme. Because there was no good reason why it was not shown until today.

What is the point of the Void Elves showing their usefulness if when Nzoth came they didn't contribute anything?
How can the Alianz be useful to the Kaldorei not going to see another Teldrazzil?
Why after 10 years of trust are they only now distrusting the Warguens?

Many races of the alliance had something interesting with issues that have already passed or with the faction war that has already ended. (Or rather clearly WoW is not going to survive another)

Yes I know, it's how I would have done the integration of these races into the Alliance starting from Cataclysm, itself not the best story time for WOW, instead of having just Varian distrusting them in a single novel and then moving on with no one else having problems with it.

[Ogren]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonf...328434?webhook

As for changes to the world that have been discussed or foreshadowed, such as the resettlement of Gilneas, those will not be happening during the fast-forward. As cool as it is to show locations and populations evolving because of story progression, we want events of this importance to be in-game questing that our players experience for themselves (as with the reclaiming of the Ruins of Lordaeron in the 9.2.5 update) rather than having it happen off-camera.

Not sure where else this fits but I love the fact Worgen help Undead get their land back before they get anything related to getting theirs back and probably never will.

Just reinforces my opinion that Alliance are a weird zombie faction with retconned/phoned in races the writers don't know what to do with. Super useless and ineffectual at everything.

[PaladinBash]

Make the Alliance predominantly Light-aligned or at least have a major Light-aligned presence that constantly pushes it to stomp the Horde and counters the other elements of the Alliance that are okay with shadier things. The Horde had a lot of these influences in reverse (ie bad elements that encouraged the more neutral or merely pragmatic parts of the Horde to go along with bad shit) and it worked for a time until those eventually became the norm. Having that happen to the Alliance in turn would work out better than the current direction of absolutely nothing mixed in with baffling incompetence and excuse-making.

[Biomega]

Just reinforces my opinion that Alliance are a weird zombie faction with retconned/phoned in races the writers don't know what to do with. Super useless and ineffectual at everything.

That's because the Alliance is mostly written AGAINST things - against the Scourge, against the Burning Legion, against the Horde...

They have no real, inherent motivator. The Horde at least has the whole "we're the people who don't really have homes anymore/whose homes have been destroyed" shtick, which at least gives them a goal in finding a path for themselves. The Alliance, though, never really played on that - even though they could have, with the Worgen, Draenei, etc. Instead, they're always coming from the place of "the Alliance" already being a thing, and everyone just slotting into that thing - whereas the Horde is in constant redefinition of itself.

That makes everything the Alliance does forever petty, because they're effectively always coming across as the hegemonic power in this entire dynamic (regardless of how true that actually is). It makes it really hard to write them powerfully without it seeming condescending or oppressive, and it makes it nigh-on impossible to see them as the underdog you actually want to root for.

I don't know a good solution that wouldn't just be something like aping the Horde entirely by having Stormwind blow up or whatever. It's just really, really hard to make the Big Guy interesting; that's why the Empire in Star Wars is boring, too, and all stories focus either on the Rebels, or skirt the issue by focusing on a minority within the Emprie like the Sith. It would be really, really hard to write a story about the Empire's military that would make them interesting or make you want to root for them.

[Culex]

Delete them.

[VladlTutushkin]

Delete them.

Only if they refund all the subscription at least since Cata. For every month. Then they can delete pretty much anything they want.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonf...328434?webhook



Not sure where else this fits but I love the fact Worgen help Undead get their land back before they get anything related to getting theirs back and probably never will.

Just reinforces my opinion that Alliance are a weird zombie faction with retconned/phoned in races the writers don't know what to do with. Super useless and ineffectual at everything.

Alliance is only reason Azeroth still exists because if they were not being Horde’s punching bag, Horde’s shoulder to cry into, Horde’s disputes mediator, Horde’s fucken nanny to change their diapers Horde would have first taken over the world, ruined it and then imploded onto itself in a Warcraft version of a nuclear war/apocalypse.

Blizz shit on faction so hard that they dont realise they also make other faction look like absolute retards.

[Grazrug]

Only if they refund all the subscription at least since Cata. For every month. Then they can delete pretty much anything they want.

- - - Updated - - -



Alliance is only reason Azeroth still exists because if they were not being Horde’s punching bag, Horde’s shoulder to cry into, Horde’s disputes mediator, Horde’s fucken nanny to change their diapers Horde would have first taken over the world, ruined it and then imploded onto itself in a Warcraft version of a nuclear war/apocalypse.

Blizz shit on faction so hard that they dont realise they also make other faction look like absolute retards.

Lmao the Alliance are literally evil imperialists who stole their land from other races and built their kingdoms on the corpses of people who used to live there before them. The World owes the alliance nothing.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Lmao the Alliance are literally evil imperialists who stole their land from other races and built their kingdoms on the corpses of people who used to live there before them. The World owes the alliance nothing.

...so just like the Old Horde of Draenor. Got it.

[Ogren]

Lmao the Alliance are literally evil imperialists who stole their land from other races and built their kingdoms on the corpses of people who used to live there before them. The World owes the alliance nothing.

I know you're trolling but I wish that were true, it would be less pathetic portrayal of them than what's actually canon right now.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonf...328434?webhook



Not sure where else this fits but I love the fact Worgen help Undead get their land back before they get anything related to getting theirs back and probably never will.

Just reinforces my opinion that Alliance are a weird zombie faction with retconned/phoned in races the writers don't know what to do with. Super useless and ineffectual at everything.

Worgens helping the Forsaken, their worst enemies who invaded and plagued their kingdom and killed their prince and many of their brethren, ressettle Lordaeron ?

Man, each time I think WOW writers can't go any lower, they manage to surprise me.

[Varodoc]

Worgens helping the Forsaken, their worst enemies who invaded and plagued their kingdom and killed their prince and many of their brethren, ressettle Lordaeron ?

Man, each time I think WOW writers can't go any lower, they manage to surprise me.

I was the only one who realized that it wasn't just Sylvanas who was going to get white-washed, it was her entire race of murderers, mad scientists, and monsters.

Now Blizzard will simply use the excuse "oh nyoooo :// their souls were stoled by fwostmourne!!! they didnt mean to be evil!!! it was all the janitor's fault!!!!" to white-wash the Forsaken race as a whole. The Alliance will be forced to accept it and will not seek reparations of any kind for all the shit the Forsaken have been pulling since WC3. We already see the Worgen helping the Forsaken rebuild Lordaeron.

[Cynical Asshole]

Make factions purely ideological and remove race-faction restrictions.

Keep faction conflict, it's just instead of humans vs orcs, it will be humans and orcs vs humans and orcs.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

I was the only one who realized that it wasn't just Sylvanas who was going to get white-washed, it was her entire race of murderers, mad scientists, and monsters.

Now Blizzard will simply use the excuse "oh nyoooo :// their souls were stoled by fwostmourne!!! they didnt mean to be evil!!! it was all the janitor's fault!!!!" to white-wash the Forsaken race as a whole. The Alliance will be forced to accept it and will not seek reparations of any kind for all the shit the Forsaken have been pulling since WC3. We already see the Worgen helping the Forsaken rebuild Lordaeron.

That's even more retarded after Blizzard itself made it a point so many times that the Orcs weren't simple slaves and tools of the Burning Legion and were still largely responsible and guilty of the crimes they commited as the Old Horde.

[VladlTutushkin]

Lmao the Alliance are literally evil imperialists who stole their land from other races and built their kingdoms on the corpses of people who used to live there before them. The World owes the alliance nothing.

Only humans with trolls, and only because high elves put them up to that. Aka the blood elves, lol.

Also Horde is the only faction that ACTUALLY ruined their homeworld and genocided their neighbor species.

[Ardenaso]

Worgens helping the Forsaken, their worst enemies who invaded and plagued their kingdom and killed their prince and many of their brethren, ressettle Lordaeron ?

not all Forsaken joined the war in Gilneas though

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

not all Forsaken joined the war in Gilneas though

Many of them took part in it, and none of them opposed it. And the Forsaken haven't done anything to atone and make amends for what they did to gilneans, humans of Lordaeron or the Night Elves.

Realistically there's no way gilneans would accept to help their nemesis go back to Lordaeron, especially when they haven't their own homeland back (thanks to the laziness of the writers and devs).