What are the best ways to make the Alliance more popular and interesting?

[Nerovar]

the time to do something for Alliance is over, since a good while. here is why:

years (many) ago, Blizz had the chance to make the Alliance racials same good as the Horde ones. but they did not. the resulting effect was: many (also new or returning) people joined the Horde. even if Blizz would had changed it years later and gave Alliance better racials than Horde, it had changed nothing, because:

after a while Horde was the dominating faction (cause of above reason). most ppl, even when not interessted in min/maxing and therefore not care about racials, joined the Horde. because „there are the…“

- „…bigger servers“
- „…better players“
- „…the most ppls. all ppl play Horde, so do i.“

regardless how true or not this is, it’s in the mind of players. if you are new to wow, you look left and right and do what the majority does. and this leaded to an effect Blizz can not turn back.

so, imo, the simple truth is: Blizz missed the moment, when they still had the chance to turn things. after that moment it’s no more possible. because if they want to turn it back later, they had to make Alliance racials that absurd overpowered, to make many ppls leave Horde, just for that. after a while they can balance it again and have 50/50 factions then. but till this point they have to absurdly overpower Alliance. and this is something Blizz just can not do balance wise.

or in other words: what do you think Blizz can do in such an absurd size (regardless if attracting in values, dps, size, design, story, or whatever), so ppls embedded in the Horde faction would turn to Alliance, WITHOUT completely sacrificing balance (in value, dps, style, design, story or whatever) between the factions for a while? Blizz HAS to imbalance the factions, in an absurd way, to achieve this. and they will not do this.

result: they missed the moment and there is no turning back.

Remember when they randomly nerfed Every Man for Himself in Legion to shit on the only niche racial Alliance had?

Thematically, the Alliance has always been underutilized. From the POV of humans WoW is a post apocalyptic setting. Humanity was basically reduced to Stormwind, its colonies and Kul Tiras while being beleaguered from all sides. This was never properly reflected in the world building apart from Classic. Didn't help that the more interesting factions like the Scarlet Crusade immediately got wiped out every time they played a role in the story. The appeal of the Alliance was further weakened because Blizzard turned a lot of their iconic subfactions and characters into neutrals in order to further cater to Horde players.

[Kehego]

Remember when they randomly nerfed Every Man for Himself in Legion to shit on the only niche racial Alliance had?

Thematically, the Alliance has always been underutilized. From the POV of humans WoW is a post apocalyptic setting. Humanity was basically reduced to Stormwind, its colonies and Kul Tiras while being beleaguered from all sides. This was never properly reflected in the world building apart from Classic. Didn't help that the more interesting factions like the Scarlet Crusade immediately got wiped out every time they played a role in the story. The appeal of the Alliance was further weakened because Blizzard turned a lot of their iconic subfactions and characters into neutrals in order to further cater to Horde players.

recall that they nerfed wotf at the same time because, lol double cc removal trinket?

and yes thanks for admitting that the alliance are colonizers.

[Nerovar]

recall that they nerfed wotf at the same time because, lol double cc removal trinket?

and yes thanks for admitting that the alliance are colonizers.

Lakeshire, Darkshire, Westfall are simply referred to as colonies in game. That has zero to do with being "colonizers" which refers to the modern system of colonialism. The comparison is asinine.

[Mace]

Also I wouldn't make humans, even those of Dalaran, the main mages and warlocks for every situation. Dwarven, elven, gnomish and draenei magi should have their own moments to shine and show their power and usefulness.

Also there should be some specificities and unique qualities and flaws for each race in terms of magic mastery, knowledge and specializations.

Yeh. The alliance far too human is and does everything. While everyone else fills a niche to support humans rather than feeling like their own people which they were when they were originally produced.

Eg. Night elves got progenies holed into tree huggers Druids only - they forgot about their apriesthood order of Elune, their hunters, their mages and arcane side, and their demon hunters. Oh these were all there but you only saw night elves play important roles as Druids not as priests, mages, hunters or DHs - till much later.

Draenei played the priest role supplementing humans, so we didn’t see night elf priesthood or much of the dwarves etc. and then didn’t see Draenei shamanism or magecraft - despite the latter in particular being huge part of them and their technology - but outside their introduction and back lore you see little to nothing. Almost always showing up as priests for alliance stuff. Often behind humans.


This is the problem. Also they don’t really do much for the races in particular outside their introduction. They treat the alliance like it is one race. A human race. Which doesn’t help either. It makes the world feel boring, less interesting and gimmicky. Plus you don’t explore anything.


Every race has several interests, several areas of expertise. They also have competing interests, internal conflicts and differences of opinions within themselves.

In a wider society, this lends itself to all kinds of interesting interactions.

Draenei technology should be an issue, we should see much more nuance with the Eredar, blood elves and night elves too.

Surely they can’t react to all alliance races the same way. How about humans either having an awe and wonder approach to them or fear and terror with some perceiving them as near angelic and others demons.

Some night elves should still struggle to see them as not the same Eredar that came with the Legion when their civilisation was destroyed. While others embrace them.

But the story is so human focused we see nothing.

Every alliance race interacts only with humans. And they just use them as NPV substitutes and ignore them while the alliance story is entirely how humans do this or that.

It’s been changing recently. But even now, Tyrande is really a side story compared to say Jaina or Sylvanas. And where is Velen or Gelbin? Genn plays a lot, but then he is human too.

[Kehego]

Lakeshire, Darkshire, Westfall are simply referred to as colonies in game. That has zero to do with being "colonizers" which refers to the modern system of colonialism. The comparison is asinine.

ah, not very well versed in the lore, are we?

did you know that south of dun morogh were troll lands?

mutant titanic offspring murdering local populations sounds pretty much like manifest destiny tbh

[Nerovar]

ah, not very well versed in the lore, are we?

did you know that south of dun morogh were troll lands?

mutant titanic offspring murdering local populations sounds pretty much like manifest destiny tbh

Poor Hakkar-worshipping Gurubashi trolls got their asses handed to them by a defensive Kingdom of Stormwind. Sad story.

[Kehego]

Yes, they made colonies. And of course they came into conflict with the local fauna. But they didn't subdue any races under them. In fact humanity on WoW spread organically, and there weren't any challenges to them until the orcs came through the portal. You had trolls to the south in ZG and north in ZA, but they spread over the rest of the EK uncontested. And they befriended the Elves in the north. The dwarves/earthen were "hibernating" to lick their wounds. And gnomes didn't travel outside Gnomeregan.

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This never happened. The northern EK were settled first and they spread south. They fought alongside the elves and reduced the trolls to only ZA. The humans never fought against ZG before world of warcraft.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Gurubashi_War

lol ok

[Nerovar]

This never happened. The northern EK were settled first and they spread south. They fought alongside the elves and reduced the trolls to only ZA. The humans never fought against ZG before world of warcraft.

I think the Gurubashi War is something they retconned in with Chronicles. Don't remember any mention of such an event in Classic. Back then it was only mentioned that humans wanted to establish trade there and were chased out by the trolls.

[Combatbutler]

the humans didn't "colonize" them.

Yeah they wiped them out as they spread their nations, every last piece of land the humans have today was troll land. Humans did pretty much what the orcs intended to do during the first war, just slower.

[Kehego]

I think the Gurubashi War is something they retconned in with Chronicles. Don't remember any mention of such an event in Classic. Back then it was only mentioned that humans wanted to establish trade there and were chased out by the trolls.

yeah thats how colonizer history works

[Aucald]

This thread isn't about trolls or the various human/troll wars that have occurred - it's about the Alliance and ways to improve its standing and/or make it more popular. Let's pivot back to the actual topic of the thread.

[Kehego]

This thread isn't about trolls or the various human/troll wars that have occurred - it's about the Alliance and ways to improve its standing and/or make it more popular. Let's pivot back to the actual topic of the thread.

i mean if handouts won't work, what will?
if you don't get a dwarf faction change tryhard from the alliance you're getting a worse group. atp i don't even get mad at "horde only" groups cus whew

just dissolve them atp

[Aucald]

i mean if handouts won't work, what will?

if you don't get a dwarf faction change tryhard from the alliance you're getting a worse group. atp i don't even get mad at "horde only" groups cus whew

just dissolve them atp

This is the Lore forum, so the expectation of suggestions would be from the standpoint of lore and story elements, not cross-faction gameplay and/or raid/group composition.

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Didnt see this until after my last post. But they were supposing that Humans are evil because of some equivalency to real world colonialism, and that isn't the case.

That's an acceptable subjective position to hold, but it's not relevant to this thread - if you want to continue the topic I suggest taking it to PMs or bringing it up in another more relevant thread.

[Kehego]

This is the Lore forum, so the expectation of suggestions would be from the standpoint of lore and story elements, not cross-faction gameplay and/or raid/group composition.

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That's an acceptable subjective position to hold, but it's not relevant to this thread - if you want to continue the topic I suggest taking it to PMs or bringing it up in another more relevant thread.

fair, but lorewise I don't think anything can be done because the alliance is about as interesting as boiled potatoes. Not even with salt.
In-game (lorewise) because they've been coddled... umbric and that entire faction is a huge asspull just to appease people who won't give up on high elves, bland supporting characters

MANDUIN

idk my position on that still holds. Even in the dragonflight leaks the entire alliance spirit is "oh let's wait till anduin comes back"
"mah king"

No seasoning.

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Also, I think in the complete whitewashing of the alliance through the past 15+ years of the video game and 25+ years of the franchise doesn't really offer them any way to be interesting.

Conflict makes fantasy interesting. The alliance is a faction void of conflict. Noone cares about a good boy cuddle party. Greymane had the potential to make the alliance interesting but he's a bootlicker.

[Aucald]

fair, but lorewise I don't think anything can be done because the alliance is about as interesting as boiled potatoes. Not even with salt.
In-game (lorewise) because they've been coddled... umbric and that entire faction is a huge asspull just to appease people who won't give up on high elves, bland supporting characters

MANDUIN

idk my position on that still holds. Even in the dragonflight leaks the entire alliance spirit is "oh let's wait till anduin comes back"
"mah king"

No seasoning.

So the next question I would be inclined to ask would be "what makes a faction great in your opinion from a story-based or narrative standpoint?" From the above, I gather you think the composition of the Alliance is jumbled or inconsistent, and you dislike Anduin as a character? So a valid response would be you think the Alliance could be improved by expelling the Void Elves from their ranks and taking on a new group or playable race more fitting for the faction identity. And if you think Anduin should be replaced, who do you think would be a fitting ruler of Stormwind or High King of the Alliance in his stead? Do you think Turalyon should remain in the role even if Anduin were to return, do you think another client nation's rulers should step up and lead?

[Progenitor Aquarius]

fair, but lorewise I don't think anything can be done because the alliance is about as interesting as boiled potatoes. Not even with salt.
In-game (lorewise) because they've been coddled... umbric and that entire faction is a huge asspull just to appease people who won't give up on high elves, bland supporting characters

MANDUIN

idk my position on that still holds. Even in the dragonflight leaks the entire alliance spirit is "oh let's wait till anduin comes back"
"mah king"

No seasoning.

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Also, I think in the complete whitewashing of the alliance through the past 15+ years of the video game and 25+ years of the franchise doesn't really offer them any way to be interesting.

Conflict makes fantasy interesting. The alliance is a faction void of conflict. Noone cares about a good boy cuddle party. Greymane had the potential to make the alliance interesting but he's a bootlicker.

To solve this problem, we just need to be somewhat more creative and remember that pessimism is the enemy of original thought. Simply said, both Ironforge and Gnomeragan have a ton of potential for cool features. Since the plot so far has only included the Night Elves and Humans. Even Mechagon might potentially be included as a major Alliance city. Traveling to new lands and exploring the stories of new races like the Voild Elves or Lightforged Draenei would be exciting as well.

[Kehego]

So the next question I would be inclined to ask would be "what makes a faction great in your opinion from a story-based or narrative standpoint?" From the above, I gather you think the composition of the Alliance is jumbled or inconsistent, and you dislike Anduin as a character? So a valid response would be you think the Alliance could be improved by expelling the Void Elves from their ranks and taking on a new group or playable race more fitting for the faction identity. And if you think Anduin should be replaced, who do you think would be a fitting ruler of Stormwind or High King of the Alliance in his stead? Do you think Turalyon should remain in the role even if Anduin were to return, do you think another client nation's rulers should step up and lead?

I don't think the void elves should be expelled, I think they shouldn't have been forced into the game to appease people.

Blood elves existing is a powerful statement. Blood elves are the former allies of the grand alliance standing up to them being completely ignored in their *several* times of need. Void elves go against all of that. Void elves say that no matter what the alliance do, they'll be forgiven and have the narrative made to where they are the good guys. That's not really "interesting" int he slightest

and no, the composition of the alliance isnt jumbled or inconsistent. its very consistent. Anduin >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, and that the position of high king means both nothing and everything at the same time.

I neither like nor dislike anduin as a character, because the character doesn't have any depth to like or dislike. Anduin Wrynn is a boiled chicken breast to the boiled potatoes of the alliance.

Turalyon is an opinionless bootlicker. Think of greymane but with even less balls. I don't think it would matter who stewards the chair of stormwind because none of the potential regents have any opinions for themselves, and even less so, the narrative power to act on their own ambition.

[Myradin]

Honestly how humans got their lands in the past is largely irrelevant to humans not being interesting now. No human alive was there for it.

I think this thread is sort of running out of things to discuss though. The problem is the alliance doesn't really embrace its diversity as a faction. Its humans and their buddies. It doesnt feel like an alliance due to the high king. Instead of relying on the specializations of its allies, humans always seem to be the ones in charge of everything. Its subfactions get along too perfectly. It forgives the horde too easily.

Everyone who doesn't conform to the alliance as it is either turns evil swiftly or drinks the koolaid.

[Nyel]

The Alliance should be more militaristic and less "peace and love". The Alliance should be ruled by Tyrande and Genn and not by the Stormwind fools (after Varian died everything went downhill there). Give Tyrande the lead over Kalimdor and Genn over Eastern Kingdoms and the Alliance maybe can shine again. Anduin was the biggest blow to the Alliance ever, he was and still is an utter joke of a King. Thank god he is not part of Dragonflight (as of now).

[Kehego]

Honestly how humans got their lands in the past is largely irrelevant to humans not being interesting now. No human alive was there for it.

I think this thread is sort of running out of things to discuss though. The problem is the alliance doesn't really embrace its diversity as a faction. Its humans and their buddies. It doesnt feel like an alliance due to the high king. Instead of relying on the specializations of its allies, humans always seem to be the ones in charge of everything. Its subfactions get along too perfectly. It forgives the horde too easily.

Everyone who doesn't conform to the alliance as it is either turns evil swiftly or drinks the koolaid.

eh it matters because its crazy that colonizers are now the "peaceful" ones
like the horde and the alliance are just as bloodthirsty as each other, difference being that the way one is portrayed gives them... character.

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The Alliance should be more militaristic and less "peace and love". The Alliance should be ruled by Tyrande and Genn and not by the Stormwind fools (after Varian died everything went downhill there). Give Tyrande the lead over Kalimdor and Genn over Eastern Kingdoms and the Alliance maybe can shine again. Anduin was the biggest blow to the Alliance ever, he was and still is an utter joke of a King. Thank god he is not part of Dragonflight (as of now).

its also pretty crazy that the alliance isn't seen as militaristic when stormwind has legions of soldiers and war machines just parked up