Dragonborne Class Concept 2022

[Teriz]

I definitely think that making them members of the Chromatic dragonflight would be the right choice, as chromatics are essentially hybrid dragons that are the result of the twilight cult's magical experiments. There are plenty of examples of chromatics using the breath & powers of 2 or more other flights (e.g. Chromaggus, Gyth) but I think the class should always be considered a member of the chromatic dragonflight due to actually being a chromatic dragon. Rather than able to just switch between the other flights (i.e. broods and/or species of dragon), they are just able to either change colors and/or powers.

It's also worth noting that the majority of chromatic drakes are experimental failures, considered by Deathwing and the TH cult to be defective mutants. The first and only successfully created chromatic dragon atm is the hydra-like Chromatus, who had a separate head for each of the 5 main colors. Even more noteworthy is the fact that the Chromatic Dragonflight has access to more than just sand/fire/arcane/poison breath. Some of them can also breathe magma and lightning.

That is an interesting perspective, and definitely a possibility. I would be fine with the concept of a class solely based on Chromatic dragons.

In terms of successful Chromatic dragons, there's also Chromitus who first appeared in BFA.

[username993720]

The gameplay reflects the lore. If the lore CLEARLY SHOWS that dragons can perfectly shapeshift into mortal races, then the gameplay reflection would be dragons having the racial traits of the races they can shapeshift into.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

Ok, tell me. Why would a dragon possess an ability belonging to another race? Have they been freed from the lich king? Blessed by the naaru? Been forged by the titans from stone?

Except all the requisites and evidence you're bringing to the table are also empty words.

Nothing that you're bringing up is evidence that a Dragon can not adopt racials, or that races even need to exhibit Player Character Racial Traits to be defined as being of that race.

I'm not the one making the claim, so the burden of proving is not on me.

Not every Dark Iron Dwarf has the ability to summon a Mole Machine, and it isn't what defines them as a Dark Iron Dwarf. Why would we subject that to Dragons who pose as Dark Iron?

Posing as? Definitely. Being that race? Questionable.

No, we haven't actually. You just linked Zeliek and didn't discuss it at all.

That's empty words.

Huh? That's taken from a WoWpedia page. Me throwing it into the air would be empty words. And, by the way, you acknowledged it, saying it is somehow supporting your argument.

And if that's the case, what's the difference with addressing Dragons posing as mortal champions who are fighting alongside the Alliance and Horde? No one needs to assume they are 100% of that race they choose to disguise as.

I agree. But, Teriz claims they would be granted their racials. To which i am skeptic right now.

When we're talking Player Character Racial Traits, there doesn't need to be any lore to support why a Dragon posing as a Goblin would have Rocket Boots and a Hobgoblin minion, any more than you need lore to support why a Death Knight who has been serving the Scourge would also be retaining these same things from a past life that they've thrown away.

Thrown away? Where is it said? Can they throw it away? A Tauren body structure remains the same, as well as his knowledge in herbalism.

There being no example of a Dragon clearly using racials is akin to there being no Death Knights clearly using racials prior to Wrath. You couldn't point to any Death Knight NPC and say that the Taurens kept their Tauren racials or the Dwarfs kept their Dwarf racials. They were simply Death Knight NPCs who used Death Knight abilities, with no indication they have any racials at all. They have completely adopted a new culture entirely, that of the Scourge.

You are right. We can only assume that just like how Zeliek and Morgraine retained their Paladin abilities, they also retained their racials.

The only reason Player Character DK's have Racial traits of their former races is purely gameplay reasons. There is actually no lore that supports them retaining racials after death, they're simply game mechanics that exist and even contradict their lore.

While i agree, it is arguable.

Why would a Death Knight retain diplomacy with all other races and reps just because they're a human corpse?

Because they're still good at talking? Not a good example...

Why would they keep 'will to survive' when they have died, and their continued existence is filled with constant torment and pain? It makes no sense.

Well, it was called Every Man to Himself before. It, basically, shows humanity's will to survive and triumph over their foes. Death Knights still can die a second time, you know.

And it doesn't have to. Same applies to Dragons. Or if you want, Demons too.

I don't think there's reasoning behind retaining the racial traits, but you'll have to do more than that to convince me that Dragons assume the racials of the race they are pretending to be.

[Teriz]

Ok, tell me. Why would a dragon possess an ability belonging to another race? Have they been freed from the lich king? Blessed by the naaru? Been forged by the titans from stone?

For the umpteenth (and final) time; It would be a gameplay reflection of the lore.

[Triceron]

Ok, tell me. Why would a dragon possess an ability belonging to another race?

How does it belong to another race? Clarify.

Humans have Diplomacy, does this mean all diplomacy belongs to Humans?

Gnomes have Engineering specialization. Does this mean only Gnomes can specialize in Engineering?


Racial Traits are not mutually exclusive to the races that have them. That is why it doesn't matter whether Dragons in mortal form display having racials or not, because cultures and races are not defined by Racial Traits alone.

I'm not the one making the claim, so the burden of proving is not on me.

No claim is being made. We are merely pointing out possibilities for a class that does not exist.

Posing as? Definitely. Being that race? Questionable.

And gameplaywise, it doesn't matter whether your Dragon is posing as a race. That is the point of a mortal visage.

Having Racials does not change this whatsoever. You do not have to be a Gnome to play as a Dragon that takes up Gnome form and has its racials. The end result is the same; a Player character who is represented as a Gnome through gameplay mechanics; whether they are a Gnome, an undead Gnome (DK) or a Dragon taking up a Gnome's visage.

I agree. But, Teriz claims they would be granted their racials. To which i am skeptic right now.

And it's not a claim, it's a possibility. He has been pretty clear about this in previous posts.

We're all regarding a concept that does not exist. Any talks of what can happen are merely in context of the hypothetical class, not of existing lore.

There is no Dragon class in existing lore, so we can't make claims about anything regarding its existence. You can apply this to any Class concept. How can you prove a Priestess of the Moon could be playable? You can't, because it's not actually playable. All you can do is suggest that they can be playable (hypothetical), but in no way actually prove it.

You are right. We can only assume that just like how Zeliek and Morgraine retained their Paladin abilities, they also retained their racials.

And as such, we can assume that Dragons also take on racials of the forms they take on. It can not be proven, only assumed. There is nothing wrong with posing this hypothetical any more than you are applying it to Zeliek and Mograine. The only way it would be proven is if it actually happened, like having a Death Knight playable class.

Because they're still good at talking? Not a good example...

Neither is any racial trait. They are not good examples, because they have never been mutually exclusive to races, nor do they exclusively define any race/culture. They are culturally flavoured gameplay mechanics, that's all.

Well, it was called Every Man to Himself before. It, basically, shows humanity's will to survive and triumph over their foes. Death Knights still can die a second time, you know.

And you can apply this to any Death Knight beyond the Human ones.

Like, is there a reason why Forsaken DK's can hold their breath longer under water than any other DK? They're all undead aren't they?

I don't think there's reasoning behind retaining the racial traits, but you'll have to do more than that to convince me that Dragons assume the racials of the race they are pretending to be.

The same reason you assume Zeliek retains his racials. There's no reason to, but you allow yourself to assume it, right? So why do I have to convince you of something you're already applying to other NPCs that do not have any reason or proof to suggest that they do?

This all boils down to a subjective opinion of whether you want to recognize Dragons adopting racials or not. There's no proof behind it. There's no reason to be convinced if you choose not to be. At the end of the day, racials aren't even bound to the lore, and some are clearly inconsistent to established lore.

That being said, I'd love to see Jaina lay down some haymakers regardless of what the lore says.

[username993720]

For the umpteenth (and final) time; It would be a gameplay reflection of the lore.

It can't be a gameplay reflection of the lore if there is no lore. For the umpteenth (and final) time, show me a case of a Dragon exhibiting a racial trait in game or lore.

How does it belong to another race? Clarify.

Humans have Diplomacy, does this mean all diplomacy belongs to Humans?

Gnomes have Engineering specialization. Does this mean only Gnomes can specialize in Engineering?


Racial Traits are not mutually exclusive to the races that have them. That is why it doesn't matter whether Dragons in mortal form display having racials or not, because cultures and races are not defined by Racial Traits alone.

While Black Dragons have somewhat presented a "diplomacy" (manipulation) trait by nature, they can't just acquire Engineering knowledge over night because of their transformation.
I'm talking about racial thay heavily tied to the lore of a race, like Will of the Forsaken or Gift of the Naaru.

No claim is being made. We are merely pointing out possibilities for a class that does not exist.

You may see it that way. You partner sees it otherwise.

And gameplaywise, it doesn't matter whether your Dragon is posing as a race. That is the point of a mortal visage.

Having Racials does not change this whatsoever. You do not have to be a Gnome to play as a Dragon that takes up Gnome form and has its racials. The end result is the same; a Player character who is represented as a Gnome through gameplay mechanics; whether they are a Gnome, an undead Gnome (DK) or a Dragon taking up a Gnome's visage.

I beg to differ. Racials make all the difference. That's why Glyph of Disguise, Illusion and Masquerade do not provide them.

And it's not a claim, it's a possibility. He has been pretty clear about this in previous posts.

We're all regarding a concept that does not exist. Any talks of what can happen are merely in context of the hypothetical class, not of existing lore.

There is no Dragon class in existing lore, so we can't make claims about anything regarding its existence. You can apply this to any Class concept. How can you prove a Priestess of the Moon could be playable? You can't, because it's not actually playable. All you can do is suggest that they can be playable (hypothetical), but in no way actually prove it.

Then, you need to reread your buddie's comments, because he wholeheartedly believes a Dragonborne class exists in lore and that replication of racials through diguise is a fact.
And, by the way, if you're talking about a concept and expect it to become live, then you need to back it up with some lore and game facts.

And as such, we can assume that Dragons also take on racials of the forms they take on. It can not be proven, only assumed. There is nothing wrong with posing this hypothetical any more than you are applying it to Zeliek and Mograine. The only way it would be proven is if it actually happened, like having a Death Knight playable class.

That is if they gain the abilities of the class they are pretending to be.

Neither is any racial trait. They are not good examples, because they have never been mutually exclusive to races, nor do they exclusively define any race/culture. They are culturally flavoured gameplay mechanics, that's all.

No, actually. Racial traits have lore tied to 'em:
"One of the greatest advantages that humanity possesses is their aptitude for team work and leadership, therefore they are also well known for their skills in [Diplomacy]. Their leaders proposed forming the Alliance, and even ordinary citizens know that the right choice of words means the difference between leaving a good impression and leaving a great one."

And you can apply this to any Death Knight beyond the Human ones.

Like, is there a reason why Forsaken DK's can hold their breath longer under water than any other DK? They're all undead aren't they?

Hmmm... you've brought up a good question.

The same reason you assume Zeliek retains his racials. There's no reason to, but you allow yourself to assume it, right? So why do I have to convince you of something you're already applying to other NPCs that do not have any reason or proof to suggest that they do?

This all boils down to a subjective opinion of whether you want to recognize Dragons adopting racials or not. There's no proof behind it. There's no reason to be convinced if you choose not to be. At the end of the day, racials aren't even bound to the lore, and some are clearly inconsistent to established lore.

Where are you getting this "racials aren't bound to lore"? They definitely are. You think they are arbitrarily chosen?

That being said, I'd love to see Jaina lay down some haymakers regardless of what the lore says.

Again, she doesn't use the Kul Tiran model. Therefore, her punches are likely to be like a wet noodle.

[Triceron]

While Black Dragons have somewhat presented a "diplomacy" (manipulation) trait by nature, they can't just acquire Engineering knowledge over night because of their transformation.

Why are you assuming that the Player Dragon would obtain their racial traits overnight?

We could assume that one possible origin for a Player Dragon could be one that was raised from an egg, by mortals who have raised them in secret. The race you choose is the race of mortals that raises your player character from an egg, and the culture and form you eventually adopt.

This explains most of the inconsistencies with 'adopting' a racial overnight.

You may see it that way. You partner sees it otherwise.

Then prove it. Where has he claimed it outside the context of this hypothetical class? You seem to be mixing up this thread with the other general Tinker and Dragon class thread. Constantly. Keep in mind that we're talking about his Dragonborne concept, which involves a hypothetical Dragon posing as a mortal, and assuming their form and racial traits.

No, actually. Racial traits have lore tied to 'em:
"One of the greatest advantages that humanity possesses is their aptitude for team work and leadership, therefore they are also well known for their skills in [Diplomacy]. Their leaders proposed forming the Alliance, and even ordinary citizens know that the right choice of words means the difference between leaving a good impression and leaving a great one."

And Dragons are magical beings able to not only take the forms of mortals, but integrate themselves seamlessly into their culture, as established by many examples in lore.

You could consider Mimicry to be a Dragon's racial trait.

Where are you getting this "racials aren't bound to lore"? They definitely are. You think they are arbitrarily chosen?

They're gameplay mechanics that can be inconsistent to lore. Just like Jaina not having Haymaker. There's no stipulation that says Haymaker is a racial trait of all Kul Tirans, it's just a gameplay mechanic that befits your specific Kul Tiran Player Race. Same can be said about Dark Irons having Mole Machines, Goblins having Rocketboots and Hobgoblin Bank slaves. These are specific to your player character and its origins. Not every Goblin has a Hobgoblin slave, this is specific to the Bilgewater Goblin Player characters, and specifically as a game mechanic.

Again, she doesn't use the Kul Tiran model. Therefore, her punches are likely to be like a wet noodle.

That illustrates my point that it isn't bound to Kul Tiran lore, rather it's bound to the Player Race that uses that particular Kul Tiran model. There can exist people of a certain race that do not have those racial traits, therefore racial traits do not define a race or culture. They define the Player specifically.

And whether a Dragon could adopt the racials or not is ultimately up to Blizzard to decide, just like they decided not to have Death Knights share Forsaken traits like longer underwater breathing even though it makes sense because they're Undead.

[username993720]

Why are you assuming that the Player Dragon would obtain their racial traits overnight?

We could assume that one possible origin for a Player Dragon could be one that was raised from an egg, by mortals who have raised them in secret. The race you choose is the race of mortals that raises your player character from an egg, and the culture and form you eventually adopt.

This explains most of the inconsistencies with 'adopting' a racial overnight.

So, you grow up as the race you are disguised as?
How would that make sense lore-wise? Was a dragon forged from stone? Blessed by Elune? Blessed by the Naaru? Contracted a Worgen curse? Freed from the Lich King? Enslaved by Ragnaros? Changed by the Void? Forged by the Light?

Then prove it. Where has he claimed it outside the context of this hypothetical class? You seem to be mixing up this thread with the other general Tinker and Dragon class thread. Constantly. Keep in mind that we're talking about his Dragonborne concept, which involves a hypothetical Dragon posing as a mortal, and assuming their form and racial traits.

I'm not gonna search it, but you can see it by the "tone" of his comments.

And Dragons are magical beings able to not only take the forms of mortals, but integrate themselves seamlessly into their culture, as established by many examples in lore.

You could consider Mimicry to be a Dragon's racial trait.

Then it is a race, not a class.

They're gameplay mechanics that can be inconsistent to lore. Just like Jaina not having Haymaker.

For the hundredth time, she's not the burly-typed Kul Tiran.

There's no stipulation that says Haymaker is a racial trait of all Kul Tirans, it's just a gameplay mechanic that befits your specific Kul Tiran Player Race. Same can be said about Dark Irons having Mole Machines, Goblins having Rocketboots and Hobgoblin Bank slaves. These are specific to your player character and its origins. Not every Goblin has a Hobgoblin slave, this is specific to the Bilgewater Goblin Player characters, and specifically as a game mechanic.

These are general traits characterizing your race.

That illustrates my point that it isn't bound to Kul Tiran lore, rather it's bound to the Player Race that uses that particular Kul Tiran model. There can exist people of a certain race that do not have those racial traits, therefore racial traits do not define a race or culture. They define the Player specifically.

Why do you think they separated between the big, burly Kul Tirans and the standard stormwindians?

And whether a Dragon could adopt the racials or not is ultimately up to Blizzard to decide, just like they decided not to have Death Knights share Forsaken traits like longer underwater breathing even though it makes sense because they're Undead.

It does make sense. Actually, undead shouldn't have a breath bar.

[Triceron]

So, you grow up as the race you are disguised as?
How would that make sense lore-wise? Was a dragon forged from stone? Blessed by Elune? Blessed by the Naaru? Contracted a Worgen curse? Freed from the Lich King? Enslaved by Ragnaros? Changed by the Void? Forged by the Light?

If we're talking about adapting the player racials?

If we are talking about a Chromatic Dragon that has access to all the dragonflights magic, this covers many types they can adapt to mimic a racial.

Stoneform could be a variation of Earth magic to protect themselves. Both of them sourced this from Titans.

Blessings from Elune apply to the Green Dragon's ties to Elune.

The Worgen curse would not be contracted, they simply adapt another form beyond Human form, and the sprinting should be self explanitory.

Freedom from the lich king isn't a racial trait. Do you mean Will of the Forsaken? That's just a CC removal ability, something which Dragons could easily adapt.

Being enslaved by Ragnaros is not a racial trait either. Yet the fireblood racial should be quite self explanitory for a Dragon.

And for Lightforged and Void Elves, I explained earlier that races like these could be omitted from being playable, due to it being too difficult to adapt in lore. Or Blizzard can say fuck it, and just let Dragons play as those races regardless.

I'm not gonna search it, but you can see it by the "tone" of his comments.

If you don't read what is being said and just reply to tones, then that's your problem. You're arguing against what you want to hear rather than what was being said.

Then it is a race, not a class.

It can be both. The Dragonborne concept is a Class that is exclusive to a race that is not selected at the starting screen. Instead you choose a mortal race to adopt the form and culture of.

For the hundredth time, she's not the burly-typed Kul Tiran.

Right, which means you've forfeit the idea that racials represent an entire race/culture. You're saying Haymaker doesn't need to represent Jaina for reasons. So that's reason enough to say Jaina can be identified as a Kul Tiran racially and culturally, without having to have Haymaker.

Therefore Dragons don't need to be defined as being of a particular race or culture through having racials. Ebonhorn is a Highmountain, and he is a Dragon. Being a Dragon doesn't make him any less of a Highmountain. And whether he has their racial traits or not, the racial traits are not what defines him as being Highmountain.

Why do you think they separated between the big, burly Kul Tirans and the standard stormwindians?

I think because of GAMEPLAY reasons. Underwater breathing and Haymaker are gameplay incentives for picking a Forsaken or a Kul Tiran. That's all. They're just gameplay incentives.

Same reason why DKs can't hold their breaths underwater. This is ultimately a gameplay reason, that Blizzard purposefully does not grant them as a trait. These are incentives for you to pick a Forsaken Death Knight, as opposed to picking Human or Blood Elf Death Knight which are the two most picked races for the class, very likely on the basis of people picking them based on looks.

It does make sense. Actually, undead shouldn't have a breath bar.

And thus my example that racials are merely extensions of gameplay, not bound to lore.

By all means, Forsaken and DKs should not be affected by certain ailments like poison and disease too (unless it is the Blight). Even Worgen DKs are contrary to the original lore that Worgen curse was immune to being raised as Forsaken. They fucked up so badly they had to revise lore to say the curse is just 'resistant' to it.

[Teriz]

A quick pic done by a friend for my concept. This is an alternate version of the tanking spec using more of an Alexstraza/Old Demo system. Essentially the character stays in humanoid form using abilities that generate a resource (Dragon Fury). Once it reaches a certain point, the player can activate dragon form, that enhances their abilities, and dragon flames can be used almost like an auto-attack. Of course its use will cause the player to deplete their resource more quickly.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll be adding it and the new version of Earthwarden to the OP shortly.

[Le Conceptuel]

A quick pic done by a friend for my concept. This is an alternate version of the tanking spec using more of an Alexstraza/Old Demo system. Essentially the character stays in humanoid form using abilities that generate a resource (Dragon Fury). Once it reaches a certain point, the player can activate dragon form, that enhances their abilities, and dragon flames can be used almost like an auto-attack. Of course its use will cause the player to deplete their resource more quickly.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll be adding it and the new version of Earthwarden to the OP shortly.

I really like this idea!

However, I do honestly maintain that it being a special Chromatic Dragon simply comes off as a special new race on the verge of suedom when we're already contending with Dragons. I'd say I much prefer the idea of Black Dragons, since they're already versatile enough, don't impede on any other class too much, and are very interesting in terms of their lore. There are enough Black Dragons, too, with a wide range of personalities that they could make for a variety of character concepts.

I'd suggest

- Earthwarden: Tanking, reliant on magma and close-range attacks. Looks like the Obsidian Worldbreaker in dragon form. Their breath weapon is a short-range magma attack that leaves behind pools.

- Deception: DPS, ranged. Reliant on shadow magic, like the magic Neltharion used in the novels. Examples include summoning tentacles (arcane, not Void! They're cleansed) or placing arcane curses on people. Also has fire-based range attacks, too, in the form of shadowflame. Their breath weapon is a long-ranged beam of shadowflame or a laser-like heat.

- Ferocity: DPS, melee. This is the one I'm the least sure about. It involves using claws and fangs, of course, but also bolstering those with traditional fire attacks, which they use for their breath weapon. Their breath weapon, as suggested, is medium-range and involves traditional dragon fire. They also may attack with their wings and tails to resemble an old dungeon boss.

[Teriz]

I really like this idea!

However, I do honestly maintain that it being a special Chromatic Dragon simply comes off as a special new race on the verge of suedom when we're already contending with Dragons. I'd say I much prefer the idea of Black Dragons, since they're already versatile enough, don't impede on any other class too much, and are very interesting in terms of their lore. There are enough Black Dragons, too, with a wide range of personalities that they could make for a variety of character concepts.

I'd suggest

- Earthwarden: Tanking, reliant on magma and close-range attacks. Looks like the Obsidian Worldbreaker in dragon form. Their breath weapon is a short-range magma attack that leaves behind pools.

- Deception: DPS, ranged. Reliant on shadow magic, like the magic Neltharion used in the novels. Examples include summoning tentacles (arcane, not Void! They're cleansed) or placing arcane curses on people. Also has fire-based range attacks, too, in the form of shadowflame. Their breath weapon is a long-ranged beam of shadowflame or a laser-like heat.

- Ferocity: DPS, melee. This is the one I'm the least sure about. It involves using claws and fangs, of course, but also bolstering those with traditional fire attacks, which they use for their breath weapon. Their breath weapon, as suggested, is medium-range and involves traditional dragon fire. They also may attack with their wings and tails to resemble an old dungeon boss.

First off, thank you.

To the rest; Yeah, basing the class on a single dragonflight would make sense as well. I do think the issue (as you highlighted) is creating enough spec diversity to create an interesting class. That's why I went with the Chromatic drake concept so that the player could freely switch between flights with diverse abilities.

[username993720]

If we're talking about adapting the player racials?

If we are talking about a Chromatic Dragon that has access to all the dragonflights magic, this covers many types they can adapt to mimic a racial.

Stoneform could be a variation of Earth magic to protect themselves. Both of them sourced this from Titans.

Blessings from Elune apply to the Green Dragon's ties to Elune.

The Worgen curse would not be contracted, they simply adapt another form beyond Human form, and the sprinting should be self explanitory.

Freedom from the lich king isn't a racial trait. Do you mean Will of the Forsaken? That's just a CC removal ability, something which Dragons could easily adapt.

Being enslaved by Ragnaros is not a racial trait either. Yet the fireblood racial should be quite self explanitory for a Dragon.

And for Lightforged and Void Elves, I explained earlier that races like these could be omitted from being playable, due to it being too difficult to adapt in lore. Or Blizzard can say fuck it, and just let Dragons play as those races regardless.

Close, but no cigar. Nice try anyway.

Will of the Forsaken comes from their sheer will to resist the Lich King.

Fireblood and Forged in Flames come from their enslavement to Ragnaros.

If you don't read what is being said and just reply to tones, then that's your problem. You're arguing against what you want to hear rather than what was being said.

It's not just the tone, it's what he said. But, never mind, i'm not going to argue with you about that. He's a living proof anyway.

It can be both. The Dragonborne concept is a Class that is exclusive to a race that is not selected at the starting screen. Instead you choose a mortal race to adopt the form and culture of.

Like a Demon Hunter and Death Knight?
Oh, wait... they became those. That's why it would probably make more sense to be a mortal with draconic powers. As for Dragon form, it could well be in the respect of the draconic powers or an alchemical experimentation.

Right, which means you've forfeit the idea that racials represent an entire race/culture. You're saying Haymaker doesn't need to represent Jaina for reasons. So that's reason enough to say Jaina can be identified as a Kul Tiran racially and culturally, without having to have Haymaker.

She doesn't use the model. Why do you think they only let you play as a big Kul Tiran?

Therefore Dragons don't need to be defined as being of a particular race or culture through having racials. Ebonhorn is a Highmountain, and he is a Dragon. Being a Dragon doesn't make him any less of a Highmountain. And whether he has their racial traits or not, the racial traits are not what defines him as being Highmountain.

Your inner beauty defines what you are?
Here, have a song:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IC5PL0XImjw

I think because of GAMEPLAY reasons. Underwater breathing and Haymaker are gameplay incentives for picking a Forsaken or a Kul Tiran. That's all. They're just gameplay incentives.

*facepalm*

Do you realize they only let you play as the big burly ones, although Kul Tirans have standard and thin ones?

Same reason why DKs can't hold their breaths underwater. This is ultimately a gameplay reason, that Blizzard purposefully does not grant them as a trait. These are incentives for you to pick a Forsaken Death Knight, as opposed to picking Human or Blood Elf Death Knight which are the two most picked races for the class, very likely on the basis of people picking them based on looks.

You're talking about a class now.

And thus my example that racials are merely extensions of gameplay, not bound to lore.

Sometimes, things like these need to be adjusted, like Forsaken being categorized as Humanoids, for balancing purposes.

By all means, Forsaken and DKs should not be affected by certain ailments like poison and disease too (unless it is the Blight). Even Worgen DKs are contrary to the original lore that Worgen curse was immune to being raised as Forsaken. They fucked up so badly they had to revise lore to say the curse is just 'resistant' to it.

Unless you're a Death Knight. Some powerful, potent magic right there.

A quick pic done by a friend for my concept. This is an alternate version of the tanking spec using more of an Alexstraza/Old Demo system. Essentially the character stays in humanoid form using abilities that generate a resource (Dragon Fury). Once it reaches a certain point, the player can activate dragon form, that enhances their abilities, and dragon flames can be used almost like an auto-attack. Of course its use will cause the player to deplete their resource more quickly.

- - - Updated - - -

I'll be adding it and the new version of Earthwarden to the OP shortly.

One has to admire your efforts, despite the disagreements.

[Triceron]

Close, but no cigar. Nice try anyway.

Will of the Forsaken comes from their sheer will to resist the Lich King.

Fireblood and Forged in Flames come from their enslavement to Ragnaros.

And if we're talking about a Dragon that mimics mortal forms through their vast magical power, then we can assume they are also able to mimic their racial traits through their own dragon powers and ancestry.

Turning into stone, recieving blessings of Elune, having fiery blood, resisting stuns/fears/ccs are all within reason of what a Dragon is able to do. As for why they don't adopt every racial, it would be merely a limitation of gameplay, no different from DK's not all having cold resistance and longer underwater breathing due to their undead nature.

Like a Demon Hunter and Death Knight?
Oh, wait... they became those. That's why it would probably make more sense to be a mortal with draconic powers. As for Dragon form, it could well be in the respect of the draconic powers or an alchemical experimentation.

Yes, we can agree it makes more sense to be a mortal with draconic powers. I would absolutely agree, since I have made the same arguments, that I would prefer a mortal gaining those powers. I think it makes more sense.

A Dragon posing as a mortal and adopting their racials by manifesting it through their own Dragon powers also makes sense. The only major stipulation is explaining how they have access to all Dragonflight magic, which is explained through being a Chromatic Dragon in this concept. That is the one thing that I would say does not make as much sense as simply having a Mortal adopt the various Dragonflight powers.

Otherwise what is the conflict here?

She doesn't use the model. Why do you think they only let you play as a big Kul Tiran?

We don't play as NPCs period. NPCs don't display racials, that's why she doesn't have Haymaker.

You're talking about a class now.

And have been since the beginning.

Dragonborne is a class. That is the topic of this thread, is it not?

Sometimes, things like these need to be adjusted, like Forsaken being categorized as Humanoids, for balancing purposes.

And so would Dragonborne be categorized, for balancing purposes.

All your Humanoid CC's would affect this class just the same as any other. Doesn't matter if this is a Dragon posing as a mortal, in this hypothetical concept their racials would be gameplay representations of the races they choose mortal forms of.

Unless you're a Death Knight. Some powerful, potent magic right there.

Which is to say, they retconned their own lore that they established in the same expansion that allowed that race/class combo to exist.

Yet for whatever reason, they still don't have access to the class that can use fist/claw weapons and literally has a ghost-wolf form. Sometimes I really don't get Blizzard's decisions.

[Teriz]

Op updated:

+New section explains class resources (Mana and Dragon Fury)
+New abilities added
+Earthwarden redesigned

[cocomen2]

nice copy/paste 1:1 of Shyvana; time to sue someone, League of Legends.

[Teriz]

nice copy/paste 1:1 of Shyvana; time to sue someone, League of Legends.

That's pretty hilarious since my concept is based mainly on Alexstraza and the old version of Demonology. I've never seen that LoL hero before.

[username993720]

And if we're talking about a Dragon that mimics mortal forms through their vast magical power, then we can assume they are also able to mimic their racial traits through their own dragon powers and ancestry.

That would be a hasty assumption, as this was not evidenced anywhere else.

Turning into stone, recieving blessings of Elune, having fiery blood, resisting stuns/fears/ccs are all within reason of what a Dragon is able to do. As for why they don't adopt every racial, it would be merely a limitation of gameplay, no different from DK's not all having cold resistance and longer underwater breathing due to their undead nature.

Well, in your eyes maybe. The idividual racials of the races are what makes them unique. So, replicating them like it's nothing diminishes them.

Yes, we can agree it makes more sense to be a mortal with draconic powers. I would absolutely agree, since I have made the same arguments, that I would prefer a mortal gaining those powers. I think it makes more sense.

A Dragon posing as a mortal and adopting their racials by manifesting it through their own Dragon powers also makes sense. The only major stipulation is explaining how they have access to all Dragonflight magic, which is explained through being a Chromatic Dragon in this concept. That is the one thing that I would say does not make as much sense as simply having a Mortal adopt the various Dragonflight powers.

Otherwise what is the conflict here?

What we've been fighting for 5 pages. Racials.

We don't play as NPCs period. NPCs don't display racials, that's why she doesn't have Haymaker.

*facepalm*

I've already showed you that they do. You're stubbornly insisting on this Jaina thing, which is absolutely ridiculous. She wouldn't have Brush off either because she's not built like a tank. Those are big Kul Titans only.

And have been since the beginning.

Dragonborne is a class. That is the topic of this thread, is it not?

No, the Death Knight example. You can't expect a class to display racial traits. They never did.

And so would Dragonborne be categorized, for balancing purposes.

All your Humanoid CC's would affect this class just the same as any other. Doesn't matter if this is a Dragon posing as a mortal, in this hypothetical concept their racials would be gameplay representations of the races they choose mortal forms of.

I have no doubt that they would. But, there's quite a leap between adjusting and making things up.

Which is to say, they retconned their own lore that they established in the same expansion that allowed that race/class combo to exist.

Yet for whatever reason, they still don't have access to the class that can use fist/claw weapons and literally has a ghost-wolf form. Sometimes I really don't get Blizzard's decisions.

What do Gilneans have to do with shamanism?
As for Monks, since everybody seems to have learned it, i don't see a reason why they wouldn't too.

[Triceron]

That would be a hasty assumption, as this was not evidenced anywhere else.

Isn't that the point of discussing a hypothetical class that has not been evidenced anywhere else? We come up with ideas on how it would be represented, otherwise there's no point in you asking a question about how gameplay mechanics would be explained for a class that doesn't exist.

Well, in your eyes maybe. The idividual racials of the races are what makes them unique. So, replicating them like it's nothing diminishes them.

Well, in your eyes maybe.

I've already showed you that they do. You're stubbornly insisting on this Jaina thing, which is absolutely ridiculous. She wouldn't have Brush off either because she's not built like a tank. Those are big Kul Titans only.

Not every Kul Tiran burly NPC has Haymaker either though. When have you seen Lady Ashvane use this ability? I haven't.

No, the Death Knight example. You can't expect a class to display racial traits. They never did.

Druids literally having longer underwater breathing through water Travel Form. That's a racial trait of the Forsaken that they can mimic through their travel form. Druid shapeshifting breaks roots, like Gnome racial. These are traits that are folded into class mechanics.

What's the difference? We wouldnt differentiate a Ressurection spell from another class just because one uses Holy and another uses Nature or Chi. The mechanics are the same, even if the lore isn't. I'm simply offering a hypothetical explanation for how a Dragon is able to obtain racials. IMO, they could be approximating them using their own abilities.

I have no doubt that they would. But, there's quite a leap between adjusting and making things up.

I'm not sure I agree. What's the difference really?

What do Gilneans have to do with shamanism?
As for Monks, since everybody seems to have learned it, i don't see a reason why they wouldn't too.

The whole 'they can't obtain inner peace' explanation never worked for me. They should have allowed Monks to be any race, really. If they can maintain concentration enough to cast a spell, they can maintain concentration enough to harness and use Chi.

[username993720]

Isn't that the point of discussing a hypothetical class that has not been evidenced anywhere else? We come up with ideas on how it would be represented, otherwise there's no point in you asking a question about how gameplay mechanics would be explained for a class that doesn't exist.

He pulled it from HotS. So, there is a basis. Your claim of imitating racials still hasn't been founded anywhere.

Well, in your eyes maybe.

It remains to be seen, i guess. Until you show at least something close to that.

Not every Kul Tiran burly NPC has Haymaker either though. When have you seen Lady Ashvane use this ability? I haven't.

Never said everyone shows it. But, trying to apply it to Jaina is absolutely redundant.

Druids literally having longer underwater breathing through water Travel Form. That's a racial trait of the Forsaken that they can mimic through their travel form. Druid shapeshifting breaks roots, like Gnome racial. These are traits that are folded into class mechanics.

I guess it makes sense. Though, you can't call it "racial" traits, but animal traits.

What's the difference? We wouldnt differentiate a Ressurection spell from another class just because one uses Holy and another uses Nature or Chi. The mechanics are the same, even if the lore isn't. I'm simply offering a hypothetical explanation for how a Dragon is able to obtain racials. IMO, they could be approximating them using their own abilities.

You'd come up with a racial trait equivalent for each of the existing playable races?

I'm not sure I agree. What's the difference really?

Because you're not just changing the categorization, you're adding an assortment of racial traits that otherwise wouldn't be there.

The whole 'they can't obtain inner peace' explanation never worked for me. They should have allowed Monks to be any race, really. If they can maintain concentration enough to cast a spell, they can maintain concentration enough to harness and use Chi.

Who said that?

[Triceron]

He pulled it from HotS. So, there is a basis. Your claim of imitating racials still hasn't been founded anywhere.
---
I guess it makes sense. Though, you can't call it "racial" traits, but animal traits.

Its a Druid class trait.

If Druids are able to approximate Racial traits through shapeshifting Class mechanics, then we can reasonably assume that Dragons shapeshifting into mortals could be able to adopt certain racial abilities.

You'd come up with a racial trait equivalent for each of the existing playable races?

I'm saying it's reasonable to assume that a Dragon is able to approximate the mechanics of racial traits through their mastery over shapeshifting, and their willingness to adopt particular cultures.

It'd be the same reason Druids are able to obtain new traits of certain beasts. They're not just taking the physical traits of a beast, they're taking in their mannerisms as well. But they're just approximations, since you aren't actually turning into a Bear that is able to communicate with all other Bears in the world. And let's not rule34 this discussion.

Because you're not just changing the categorization, you're adding an assortment of racial traits that otherwise wouldn't be there.

They would be there because your Dragon chooses to take up that form and culture.

No different from being affected by humanoid CC's. A Dragon in mortal form has all the strengths and weaknesses of a mortal, whether it's their ability to punch really hard, or be rooted by some vines. Then we can theorize having class mechanics that help sell the idea of playing a Dragon, like having access to tail swipes and fire breathing, or a Shapeshifting cooldown that breaks CC's your mortal form is vulnerable to.

The idea is an 'adjustment' of what Druids already have. Your Cat form has Stealth, increased movement speed; your Bear Form has Taunts, stuns and higher Health and Armor. Your Seal travel form has underwater breathing, your Stag travel form can be ridden as a mount. Your Beast forms are vulnerable to Hibernate and Scare Beast.

All of these animal traits are accessible through shapeshifting; therefore it's reasonable to assume that a magical creature known for shapeshifting into mortals could have access to mortal racials just the same.

Who said that?

Blizzard's own lore explanation is that a Worgen can't be a Monk because they can't control their emotions. Can't remember source, could possibly be a blue post somewhere sometime, or some twitter reply.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...n-monks/682907

Not a source, but an anecdote that repeats what I've heard

I just heard a 3rd reason, that lore-wise goblins and worgen lack the self control or whatever to be monks, that goblins are too greedy and worgen too wild. But I think that’s also ridiculous.