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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Its a Druid class trait.

    If Druids are able to approximate Racial traits through shapeshifting Class mechanics, then we can reasonably assume that Dragons shapeshifting into mortals could be able to adopt certain racial abilities.
    Physical, yes.
    Lore ones, i'm not sure.

    I'm saying it's reasonable to assume that a Dragon is able to approximate the mechanics of racial traits through their mastery over shapeshifting, and their willingness to adopt particular cultures.

    It'd be the same reason Druids are able to obtain new traits of certain beasts. They're not just taking the physical traits of a beast, they're taking in their mannerisms as well. But they're just approximations, since you aren't actually turning into a Bear that is able to communicate with all other Bears in the world. And let's not rule34 this discussion.
    What's rule 34?
    How do you know they can't communicate with other animals?

    They would be there because your Dragon chooses to take up that form and culture.

    No different from being affected by humanoid CC's. A Dragon in mortal form has all the strengths and weaknesses of a mortal, whether it's their ability to punch really hard, or be rooted by some vines. Then we can theorize having class mechanics that help sell the idea of playing a Dragon, like having access to tail swipes and fire breathing, or a Shapeshifting cooldown that breaks CC's your mortal form is vulnerable to.

    The idea is an 'adjustment' of what Druids already have. Your Cat form has Stealth, increased movement speed; your Bear Form has Taunts, stuns and higher Health and Armor. Your Seal travel form has underwater breathing, your Stag travel form can be ridden as a mount. Your Beast forms are vulnerable to Hibernate and Scare Beast.

    All of these animal traits are accessible through shapeshifting; therefore it's reasonable to assume that a magical creature known for shapeshifting into mortals could have access to mortal racials just the same.
    I'll say it's arguable in some cases of racial traits, but you're making a compelling argument and i don't wanna clog this thread more with circular debates. So, i'll settle for ok.

    Blizzard's own lore explanation is that a Worgen can't be a Monk because they can't control their emotions. Can't remember source, could possibly be a blue post somewhere sometime, or some twitter reply.

    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...n-monks/682907

    Not a source, but an anecdote that repeats what I've heard

    I just heard a 3rd reason, that lore-wise goblins and worgen lack the self control or whatever to be monks, that goblins are too greedy and worgen too wild. But I think that’s also ridiculous.
    What?
    Their whole starting zone explains how they maintain control. That's why you turn into a human and don't stay in Worgen form all the time. They've been through rituals to maintain control:
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Nei...uman_Nor_Beast

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Physical, yes.
    Lore ones, i'm not sure.
    That kind of encapsulates the whole argument here.

    We're not sure how racials fit into lore, and we don't have to be. Racials are just gameplay mechanics for player characters, with little-to-no lore explanation as to why we even have them. Everything lore-related to racials is assumed knowledge. Like the whole burly Kul Tiran model having Haymaker, it's nothing but an assumption on your part. Lorewise, there is no explanation to why they have Haymaker as a racial. They just do.

    You have the odd racial with lore explanation like Gift of the Naaru or Elune's Blessing, but otherwise we just take Blizzard's word on whatever any race gets.

    What?
    Their whole starting zone explains how they maintain control. That's why you turn into a human and don't stay in Worgen form all the time. They've been through rituals to maintain control:
    I know. And Blizzard's own devs decided to contradict the lore to give an off-hand explanation as to why Worgen aren't playable.

    They also seem to have said Worgens don't have Monks because they weren't in their starting zones; but that seems like a flimsy reason altogether now that we have Exiles Reach.

    There's really no reason why they aren't playable.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-03-02 at 05:58 AM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    That kind of encapsulates the whole argument here.

    We're not sure how racials fit into lore, and we don't have to be. Racials are just gameplay mechanics for player characters, with little-to-no lore explanation as to why we even have them. Everything lore-related to racials is assumed knowledge. Like the whole burly Kul Tiran model having Haymaker, it's nothing but an assumption on your part. Lorewise, there is no explanation to why they have Haymaker as a racial. They just do.

    You have the odd racial with lore explanation like Gift of the Naaru or Elune's Blessing, but otherwise we just take Blizzard's word on whatever any race gets.
    Actually, we do have lore explanations (for the vanilla/tbc races).
    There is definitely a lore reasoning behind the others. It's not just arbitrarily appointed.

    I know. And Blizzard's own devs decided to contradict the lore to give an off-hand explanation as to why Worgen aren't playable.

    They also seem to have said Worgens don't have Monks because they weren't in their starting zones; but that seems like a flimsy reason altogether now that we have Exiles Reach.

    There's really no reason why they aren't playable.
    Probably being lazy in applying the Monk animations to the races' animations rigs.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Actually, we do have lore explanations (for the vanilla/tbc races).
    There is definitely a lore reasoning behind the others. It's not just arbitrarily appointed.
    Where do you find all the lore explanations of racials? Say for all the Allied Races?

    Probably being lazy in applying the Monk animations to the races' animations rigs.
    That too. Laziness is a contributing factor to a lot of things we don't have. I'm honestly surprised we've gone this long without some form of playable Naga.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Where do you find all the lore explanations of racials? Say for all the Allied Races?
    We don't have them yet. You can find for the old races.

    That too. Laziness is a contributing factor to a lot of things we don't have. I'm honestly surprised we've gone this long without some form of playable Naga.
    Pray for a playable Sethrak. They show some promise.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    We don't have them yet. You can find for the old races.
    Mind pointing me in the right direction? I'm unable to find any lore on Wowpedia about racial traits having any lore. I only see some general racial lore, like Forsaken having a strong will, but nothing to imply an explanation for it manifesting as 'Will of the Forsaken' ability.

    Pray for a playable Sethrak. They show some promise.
    They're cool, but they're not Naga. I'd want Naga with a full class representation for Sea Witch in playable form, something like a 'Mystic' class that uses a mix of song, divination, elemental (storm) and arcane magic.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Mind pointing me in the right direction? I'm unable to find any lore on Wowpedia about racial traits having any lore. I only see some general racial lore, like Forsaken having a strong will, but nothing to imply an explanation for it manifesting as 'Will of the Forsaken' ability.
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Hum..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dwa..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Gno..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Nig..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dra..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Orc..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Und..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tau..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tro..._racial_traits
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blo...yable)#Reasons

    They're cool, but they're not Naga. I'd want Naga with a full class representation for Sea Witch in playable form, something like a 'Mystic' class that uses a mix of song, divination, elemental (storm) and arcane magic.
    Probably not gonna happen due to their models.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Probably not gonna happen due to their models.
    Which is a shame. There's so much potential in playable Naga.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Which is a shame. There's so much potential in playable Naga.
    They had a whole faction dedicated to them in WC3. They were planned to be playable in vanilla WoW. I feel like Naga would make a great addition to the Horde, alongside their mana addicted friends, the Blood elves and the Nightborne.

  10. #250
    The Lightbringer Romire's Avatar
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    I wouldnt mind being a dragon!
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  11. #251
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romire View Post
    I wouldnt mind being a dragon!
    Most people would.

    It'd probably be one of if not THE most popular classes in the game.

  12. #252
    I hate to admit it, but if Alexstrasza is indeed on the cover and there is going to be a new class, then Dragonsworn is the most plausible option.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    I hate to admit it, but if Alexstrasza is indeed on the cover and there is going to be a new class, then Dragonsworn is the most plausible option.
    About damned time.

    Hopefully this means the end of circular debates denying them from being anything other than RPG book druids :/

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    About damned time.

    Hopefully this means the end of circular debates denying them from being anything other than RPG book druids :/
    Where did i call them Druids?

  15. #255
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Well, looks like Dragons can be a race and a class after all…..

  16. #256
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well, looks like Dragons can be a race and a class after all…..
    Except we're not dragons, but more like drakonids. We're the result of an experiment to merge humans/humanoids and dragon.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  17. #257
    Merely a Setback Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except we're not dragons, but more like drakonids. We're the result of an experiment to merge humans/humanoids and dragon.
    Blizzard literally said that Drakthyrs are dragons.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Blizzard literally said that Drakthyrs are dragons.
    Can drakthyrs be Tinkers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyanion View Post
    In no way are you entitled to the 'complete' game when you buy it, because DLC/cosmetics and so on are there for companies to make more money
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Others, including myself, are saying that they only exist because Blizzard needed to create things so they could monetize it.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well, looks like Dragons can be a race and a class after all…..
    Nah they're not dragons, they're a hybrid. And good news! You can finally cosplay as an Engineer, err "Tinker", with the new profession transmogs. Final nail, meet coffin.

  20. #260
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Blizzard literally said that Drakthyrs are dragons.
    Blizzard also literally said that dracthyrs were the result of hybridization between humans and dragons.

    "We wanted to let you play a dragon, not a big dragon, but a draconid humanoid. So, the dracthyr, created by Neltharion...."
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

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