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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Nynax View Post
    I came to give my congratulations, OP got his dragonborn...

    Instead I find ya'll STILL fighting!?!

    That's because we got the "we have dragonborn at home" edition.

  2. #282
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgaith View Post
    That's because we got the "we have dragonborn at home" edition.
    Nah, DE is about 80% of this concept, which is great, and frankly more than I had hoped for.

  3. #283
    I was never a fan of the idea of dragons as a class since, for me, it sort of brought dragons down to a mortal level whereas I always felt they should be special. Elite. The most powerful of creatures.

    I think what we got is actually a pretty great compromise between the fantasy of playing a dragon without actually impeding on the awe that dragons should bring. I'm pretty stoked to see how it plays out. Gotta be a pretty great moment for fans of this class concept, as while it isn't a 1:1 adaptation, I think there are enough kernels of similarity to keep people happy.

  4. #284
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I was never a fan of the idea of dragons as a class since, for me, it sort of brought dragons down to a mortal level whereas I always felt they should be special. Elite. The most powerful of creatures.

    I think what we got is actually a pretty great compromise between the fantasy of playing a dragon without actually impeding on the awe that dragons should bring. I'm pretty stoked to see how it plays out. Gotta be a pretty great moment for fans of this class concept, as while it isn't a 1:1 adaptation, I think there are enough kernels of similarity to keep people happy.
    Yeah, I feel that its pretty much what could be expected by Blizzard. I'm extremely satisfied with what we got, and I'm very excited to get my hands on the new class.

    I will say that it's interesting how similar Wrathion's form looks here;



    To the eventual Dracthyr race.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, I feel that its pretty much what could be expected by Blizzard. I'm extremely satisfied with what we got, and I'm very excited to get my hands on the new class.
    I'm really hoping that the gameplay is fun, engaging and more or less fully fleshed out. I'm a little worried that we'll get a rehash of the Demon Hunter as the 2 specs is a bit of a red flag, but I'm somewhat hopeful as I don't think you can make a fully thought through healer without some depth in modern WoW.

    I will say that it's interesting how similar Wrathion's form looks here;

    To the eventual Dracthyr race.
    Huh, that is pretty interesting. It must have been a pretty conscious design choice given how lithe the Dracthyr are overall. I can see them trying to use Wrathion as a basis for some of the overall race/class aesthetic given his prominence.

  6. #286
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I'm really hoping that the gameplay is fun, engaging and more or less fully fleshed out. I'm a little worried that we'll get a rehash of the Demon Hunter as the 2 specs is a bit of a red flag, but I'm somewhat hopeful as I don't think you can make a fully thought through healer without some depth in modern WoW.
    I think the benefit this class has that the DH didn't is the draconic slant on its theme that opens it up to concepts previous classes could do. So while the DH felt a little half-baked because we had Monks, Rogues, and Warriors already giving us mobile, DW combat, we've never had a dragon-based class before. For example, wings and fire breath so we can attack from the air. Combined Dragonflight magic so we can merge Arcane with Fire, or Time with Dream magics. I think they can do a lot with the concept. In addition, they have a library of HotS abilities and talents to pull from if necessary.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2022-04-23 at 06:06 PM.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I think the benefit this class has that the DH didn't is the draconic slant on its theme that opens it up to concepts previous classes could do. So while the DH felt a little half-baked because we had Monks, Rogues, and Warriors already giving us mobile, DW combat, we've never had a dragon-based class before. For example, wings and fire breath so we can attack from the air. Combined Dragonflight magic so we can merge Arcane with Fire, or Time with Dream magics. I think they can do a lot with the concept. In addition, they have a library of HotS abilities and talents to pull from if necessary.
    I think the big thing is going to be the cross section of ideas vs effort. I think that this concept absolutely has more room for cool and fun abilities than Demon Hunters ever did, which is a definite plus.

    But, the Demon Hunter was also incredibly underwhelming in what we got not based so much on the concept being thin (it is, but that's neither here nor there) but based on the low effort that was put into it. The Demon Hunter could have easily had something like a strafing eye beam attack, which would have been really cool. It could have had a unique mechanic akin to holding down a button to empower abilities. It could have more than the cookie cutter abilities it ended up with.

    My worry here is that they could take the same approach. I'm being very cautiously optimistic that they won't, but it is possible that we get a bare minimum effort where the class is bare bones and lacklustre despite the fact that there is ample material to draw from before you even get to things like cool dragon stuff from outside the property or any amazing brand new ideas people cook up. If the will to implement isn't there, we really could end up with another Demon Hunter, which would be such a shame.

  8. #288
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    I think the big thing is going to be the cross section of ideas vs effort. I think that this concept absolutely has more room for cool and fun abilities than Demon Hunters ever did, which is a definite plus.

    But, the Demon Hunter was also incredibly underwhelming in what we got not based so much on the concept being thin (it is, but that's neither here nor there) but based on the low effort that was put into it. The Demon Hunter could have easily had something like a strafing eye beam attack, which would have been really cool. It could have had a unique mechanic akin to holding down a button to empower abilities. It could have more than the cookie cutter abilities it ended up with.

    My worry here is that they could take the same approach. I'm being very cautiously optimistic that they won't, but it is possible that we get a bare minimum effort where the class is bare bones and lacklustre despite the fact that there is ample material to draw from before you even get to things like cool dragon stuff from outside the property or any amazing brand new ideas people cook up. If the will to implement isn't there, we really could end up with another Demon Hunter, which would be such a shame.
    Yeah, and I just don't share that pessimism. I think the advantage this class has over Demon Hunters is a much wider design base to work from. Demon Hunters only had Illidan HotS, since most of their WC3 abilities were already cannibalized by other classes, and frankly Illidan HotS is a very shallow hero in his own right. Also, them coming in as yet another agile Melee DPS/Tank class right after Monks really limited their space even further. It was clear that Blizzard was very concerned about DHs overlapping heavily with Monks, Rogues, and Warlocks so they redesigned all three of those classes in Legion, and brought in the DH in such a "safe" fashion that they didn't even port over the Warlock version of Metamorphosis over to the new class. They instead took the HotS version, which is also melee, and sort of short-circuted one of the cool aspects of the DH gameplay from WC (agile melee fighter turns into massive tanky ranged monster).

    This dragon class on the other hand simply doesn't have those types of constraints. Unlike Demon Hunters who only had Illidan HotS as a foundation, this class has Alexstraza, Chromie, and Deathwing HotS along with a multitude of WoW dragons in lore. Also its the first new ranged spec since Vanilla, so there's a lot of concepts that it can draw from without it feeling redundant.

    In the end, I think it's going to be fine. We'll get a better idea of course when more abilities and their talent trees are released. Fingers crossed!

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, and I just don't share that pessimism. I think the advantage this class has over Demon Hunters is a much wider design base to work from. Demon Hunters only had Illidan HotS, since most of their WC3 abilities were already cannibalized by other classes, and frankly Illidan HotS is a very shallow hero in his own right. Also, them coming in as yet another agile Melee DPS/Tank class right after Monks really limited their space even further. It was clear that Blizzard was very concerned about DHs overlapping heavily with Monks, Rogues, and Warlocks so they redesigned all three of those classes in Legion, and brought in the DH in such a "safe" fashion that they didn't even port over the Warlock version of Metamorphosis over to the new class. They instead took the HotS version, which is also melee, and sort of short-circuted one of the cool aspects of the DH gameplay from WC (agile melee fighter turns into massive tanky ranged monster).

    This dragon class on the other hand simply doesn't have those types of constraints. Unlike Demon Hunters who only had Illidan HotS as a foundation, this class has Alexstraza, Chromie, and Deathwing HotS along with a multitude of WoW dragons in lore. Also its the first new ranged spec since Vanilla, so there's a lot of concepts that it can draw from without it feeling redundant.

    In the end, I think it's going to be fine. We'll get a better idea of course when more abilities and their talent trees are released. Fingers crossed!
    This is off topic, but I think that Demon Hunters as the narrow and incredibly specific example of Illidan and really nothing else was a bad idea. The game had plenty of nimble leather wearers already in it. The class would have benefited greatly if they had gone with Illidan as a base, sure, but they really could have done a lot more with the class and branched it out in other areas, kind of like they ended up doing with the Monk. They played it safe and kept it to a cookie cutter Illidan clone, and the class has suffered for it.

    For the Evoker though, it's definitely a wait and see sort of thing. There's more material to work with, absolutely, but there's also a smidge more adaptation and alteration needed to make those abilities work. I know it can be done. Absolutely. But a lot of my pessimism comes from Blizzard itself, as they quite honestly need to rebuild trust. The material is there to work with, I'm just not convinced that this team has what it takes to execute on it in a meaningful way.

  10. #290
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellmoo View Post
    For the Evoker though, it's definitely a wait and see sort of thing. There's more material to work with, absolutely, but there's also a smidge more adaptation and alteration needed to make those abilities work. I know it can be done. Absolutely. But a lot of my pessimism comes from Blizzard itself, as they quite honestly need to rebuild trust. The material is there to work with, I'm just not convinced that this team has what it takes to execute on it in a meaningful way.
    Interestingly, I remembered our old argument about Worgen not being able to BE Worgen due to class and race limitations. Now that the Dracthyr Evoker has shattered those limitations by merging race and class together, I am interested in seeing what they develop for the future.

  11. #291
    It's over for the Dragonborne. This was the expansion for it - and we didn't get it.

    Move on.

  12. #292
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    It's over for the Dragonborne. This was the expansion for it - and we didn't get it.

    Move on.
    Uh, we did. We're getting a race/class combination concept that allows us to play as prismatic drakes that can utilize multiple draconic flight abilities and disguise ourselves as mortals in visage form.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Interestingly, I remembered our old argument about Worgen not being able to BE Worgen due to class and race limitations. Now that the Dracthyr Evoker has shattered those limitations by merging race and class together, I am interested in seeing what they develop for the future.
    I'm curious about it as well as the paradigm has certainly shifted when it comes to what we think of as a class moving forward. With the addition of a "Dragon class" there is little to say we won't at some point get a "Demon class", "Undead class", "Mechanical class" or "Celestial class" for example. All depending on the story and the introduction of new races that end up also being classes.

    If an Undead Class could bring in what's essentially Necromancer gameplay, does that scratch the Neromancer itch that a lot of people have? Can a Mechanical class be added that adds a tech gameplay style to scatch the Tinker itch? Are these things fulfilling enough?

    It's not something I would have ever even considered before as the divide between race and class was clear. Distinct. But now? Depending on the popularity of the Evoker (and I would be utterly shocked if this doesn't become the most popular class in the game, provided it is mechanically sound) this could be the entire system moving forward./

    Do I think it will cover things like a Worgen getting that classic Werewolf feel? My gut says no as Blizzard doesn't normally build backwards as it were and Wprgen are largely not something that gets much attention. I think the best we are likely to see on that front is cosmetic additions, whether it's a class skin system or a large expansion to transmog or the like, to add layers to the visuals to allow for more concepts, rather than mechanical additions to the game.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Want to know why Dragonborne are so popular? Because people who dig furries have pretty much applied the exact same aesthetic to DnD's dragon races. For example;



    That's a dragon race character in DnD. Female drakonids in WoW don't look like that.
    Pretty sure thats fanart. Dragonborn have been rather routinely drawn without tails officially. That and their females are generally just as beefy as WoW males.


  15. #295
    Lol i like this better than what we're getting.

  16. #296
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    Pretty sure thats fanart. Dragonborn have been rather routinely drawn without tails officially. That and their females are generally just as beefy as WoW males.
    Either way, thankfully we got the Dracthyr, instead of what amounts to current races wearing lizard costumes.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Either way, thankfully we got the Dracthyr, instead of what amounts to current races wearing lizard costumes.
    But what we got is literally a human/elf who can put on a winged lizard costume.

  18. #298
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    But what we got is literally a human/elf who can put on a winged lizard costume.
    No, we got a playable version of Alexstraza, Wrathion, Kalecgos, etc.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, we got a playable version of Alexstraza, Wrathion, Kalecgos, etc.
    Huh what

    No, we didnt. They chose mortal forms based on real races, just like Chromie and Ebonhorn.

    Dracthyr just coincidentally look similar to human females and blood elf males, like how Vulpera are similar to goblins but theyre not related. Bogus if you ask me, we should jist be able to pick any race for our visage form.

  20. #300
    Scarab Lord Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    No, we got a playable version of Alexstraza, Wrathion, Kalecgos, etc.
    No, those are full dragons

    These are skinny scaly fursuits wearing people
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

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