Dragonborne Class Concept 2022

[Ielenia]

Let's not beat around the bullshit. Here is the source. Developer literally saying they have the power to wield all FIVE dragonflights magic.

Then why, in the deep-dive, they say they wield red and blue dragonflight magic in the Devastation spec, and green and bronze dragonflight magic in the Preservation spec, and the class only has two specs?

"We don't see any Black Dragonflight magic therefore they can not represent Wrathion" is literally absence of evidence.

How about "Blizzard, in the deep-dive, said they only wield red, blue, green and bronze magic in their specs, therefore the dracthyr evoker cannot represent Wrathion"? That is literally presence of evidence.

[Myradin]

Then why, in the deep-dive, they say they wield red and blue dragonflight magic in the Devastation spec, and green and bronze dragonflight magic in the Preservation spec, and the class only has two specs?

It is highly likely, especially with the new talent trees, that while the specs FOCUS on particular flights, they have all 5.

Its not like a Fire mage, a mage that one would describe as a 'wielder of fire magic', lacks a single frost or arcane spell.

[Triceron]

Then why, in the deep-dive, they say they wield red and blue dragonflight magic in the Devastation spec, and green and bronze dragonflight magic in the Preservation spec, and the class only has two specs?

Because that's what they're focused on presenting? We don't have a full list of abilities for the Evoker, just a small presentation for a handful of abilities and a very basic breakdown of what to expect from each spec.

And Specs are specializations. Like a Frost spec for Mages is specializing in Frost magic, but it doesn't mean they can't use other types of magic. All Mages have access to basic Fire and Arcane abilities. The new talent system will support broader use of Arcane magic as well in all specs, perhaps even more cross use between Fire and Frost abilities.

Like the Soar ability, it could be a core class ability not attributed to either spec. In the video, you will see when they fly around breathing fire on the ground, the ground actually erupts, which is evocative of Black Dragonflight's magic. This is visually similar to Deathwing's Earth Shatter ability in HOTS. They also point out later that Pyre uses a mix of all Dragonflight colors, to illustrate all 5 powers being used.

How about "Blizzard, in the deep-dive, said they only wield red, blue, green and bronze magic in their specs, therefore the dracthyr evoker cannot represent Wrathion"? That is literally presence of evidence.

They didn't say they only wield red, blue, green and bronze magic though. You said it, not Blizzard. This is nothing more than your opinion that they only use those magic based on the limited information we were presented.

Again, no different than making an argument that they can't equip weapons because the promotional material never showed them with any weapons equipped. It's a fallacy because we know and have been told what weapons they use. Just like they told us what magic they have access to. You can't just use confirmation bias to support an absence of evidence fallacy.

"Getting that vibe that they used all 5 was really important to us, but we did want to make sure that each specialization focused on 2, because casting 5 different colors gets a bit messy"

That does not mean they only use 2 at a time. It means they specialize in 2 for the spec. No different than a Mage still being able to use Arcane and Fire abilities despite having a focus in Frost abilities in Frost spec.

[Ielenia]

Because that's what they're focused on presenting? We don't have a full list of abilities for the Evoker, just a small presentation for a handful of abilities and a very basic breakdown of what to expect from each spec.

What else is there to present? Do you think the class has a third secret spec they're decided to reveal to us until much later that uses black dragonflight magic? They literally listed the type of "essences" that comprise each of the specs, and "black dragonflight essence' was never mentioned.

And Specs are specializations. Like a Frost spec for Mages is specializing in Frost magic, but it doesn't mean they can't use other types of magic.

Not the same thing. The mage class is still restricted to what it has: fire, frost and arcane. In the presentation, Blizzard has revealed the essences utilized in the dracthyr, and black dragonflight's essence was never mentioned in the specs' descriptions.

They didn't say they only wield red, blue, green and bronze magic though. You said it, not Blizzard. This is nothing more than your opinion that they only use those magic based on the limited information we were presented.

So you're claiming the deep-dive gave us incomplete information?

Again, no different than making an argument that they can't equip weapons because the promotional material never showed them with any weapons equipped.

It's very different. Those are completely different situations because promotional material is not an in-depth explanation about the class, which the deep-dive is.

"Getting that vibe that they used all 5 was really important to us, but we did want to make sure that each specialization focused on 2, because casting 5 different colors gets a bit messy"

That does not mean they only use 2 at a time. It means they specialize in 2 for the spec. No different than a Mage still being able to use Arcane and Fire abilities despite having a focus in Frost abilities in Frost spec.

It is very different, because a frost mage utilizes abilities from their other specs, which is fire and arcane. None of the evoker's specs were said to utilize black dragonflight magic for the evoker of either specialization to access.

[Triceron]

What else is there to present? Do you think the class has a third secret spec they're decided to reveal to us until much later that uses black dragonflight magic? They literally listed the type of "essences" that comprise each of the specs, and "black dragonflight essence' was never mentioned.

Nothing more needs to be presented. The point is, Evokers have mastery over ALL 5 Dragonflight powers, while choosing to specialize in Bronze/Green for Healing or Red/Blue for DPS.

You said Blizzard said they ONLY use those colors, when I've pointed out that the devs have said they use all 5 multiple times. I was making a clarification, not presenting a new point.

Not the same thing. The mage class is still restricted to what it has: fire, frost and arcane. In the presentation, Blizzard has revealed the essences utilized in the dracthyr, and black dragonflight's essence was never mentioned in the specs' descriptions.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing. Does the Dracthyr use Black Dragon magic? Yes it does, because the Devs have blatantly included it in descriptions of their power and abilities, multiple times.

How about "Blizzard, in the deep-dive, said they only wield red, blue, green and bronze magic in their specs' would still be wrong. They do not only use these magics in their specs, they merely specialize in it. Black Dragon magic would be part of the core Evoker class abilities. Same way a Brewmaster spec has access to Mist-based healing abilities despite not being a Mist Healer spec, because they are available as core Monk Class abilities. "Mistweaver is the only Monk spec that can use Mist magic" would be objectively wrong. Mistweaver is specialized in using Mist magic, but it is not the only spec that can use the power of Mists. All Monk specs have access to this power.

As for you trying to outline any differences in the examples, you're literally splitting hairs. It doesn't matter if they didn't mention any specific Black Dragonflight spells, because we already know they have access to all 5 Dragonflight's magic.

You're literally trying to argue against what's already blatantly said in the video. I mean, what's next? Are you gonna tell me that Dracthyr will not be from Dragon Isles because the devs did not reveal their starting zone in the preview video?

[Teriz]

The Evokers cannot use the black dragonflight's magic, as Blizzard explained in the expansion announcement the dracthyr use only red, blue, green and bronze essences, meaning the black dragonflight's essence is apparently missing from the dracthyr. That means one cannot "be Wrathion".

That ability comes from Onyxia, a black dragon.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Then why, in the deep-dive, they say they wield red and blue dragonflight magic in the Devastation spec, and green and bronze dragonflight magic in the Preservation spec, and the class only has two specs?


How about "Blizzard, in the deep-dive, said they only wield red, blue, green and bronze magic in their specs, therefore the dracthyr evoker cannot represent Wrathion"? That is literally presence of evidence.

directly transcribed from the deep dive.

they have the ability to wield the magic of all five dragon flights so evokers can take advantage of red magic and blue magic and bronze magic. and to show that we created a visual what we call a prismatic effect, this prismatic effect is basically the coalescence of all their energy as they channel it into whatever spell that they're going to cast, you have a red magic spell called pyre so when you shoot it out of your mouth it twirls in the air with all five of the dragon flight's magic as it turns into the red spell before landing on your enemies and exploding and hopefully burning them.

getting that vibe across that they use all five was really important to us

while the spec's might focus on two of the five and while you might not be like Wrathion like Teriz say's they absolutely use all five magics.

[Icelin]

That ability comes from Onyxia, a black dragon.

Ugh. Why did they make the new hero class a dragon class. By the Light they should've just gave these abilities to the dragonriding mount.. then! Everyone could've had these abilities (regardless of ACTUAL class they want to play) on their new mount. The new heavily customizable mount could've got the awesome concept of boss fights and aerial fights. Then! We could've got an actual real class. One that any race could play, or the majority of races. I am so bummed out first hero caster class is this of almost 20 years and is so incredibly restricted.

Everything about this upcoming expansion stinks of bitterness from the decisions made on the game. To the project getting pushed out way too fast. It's sad to be submitted to this. Which I will not allow myself to be submitted to it and if I don't see improvements, I am not purchasing it. I keep telling the company they have more than ample time to address it, but they are pretending like they don't.

"Sounds like a you issue" No it's a you (Blizzard) issue, the internet didn't blow up with hype. (Trust me if the good work is there it speaks for itself. Diablo 4 is a good example of this. I seen much more positive comments on various media outlets. I gave kudos too on the improvements.) Fix it, try and make a better effort. Instead of trying to give us scraps and minuscule content.

[loras]

No, those are full dragons

These are skinny scaly fursuits wearing people

Nah, they're just Italian dragons.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MvYApd_X3aU

[Ielenia]

That ability comes from Onyxia, a black dragon.

So you're claiming that Onyxia is the only dragon with the ability to fly and breathe fire? Is that it? Stop grasping at straws. All dragons fly and have breath weapons.

For example: during questing (I think it was during leveling) in Dragonblight, part of the quest chain that sends you to the Red Dragonflight's grove, during your time, fighting the Scourge, there you see red dragons doing literally that: flying by and breathing fire to the undead underneath them.

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directly transcribed from the deep dive.



while the spec's might focus on two of the five and while you might not be like Wrathion like Teriz say's they absolutely use all five magics.

Take a look at said "prismatic effect": red, blue, green and bronze. No black.

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You said Blizzard said they ONLY use those colors,

"Devastation uses red and blue magic, Preservation uses green and bronze magic" seems rather straight-forward to me.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

So you're going to dismiss everything and say I am "arguing for the sake of arguing" after I demonstrated my case?

You're literally trying to argue against what's already blatantly said in the video.

I'm arguing for what's blatantly shown in the video, which is the existence of red, blue, green and bronze magic, and a total lack of black magic.

[Teriz]

So you're claiming that Onyxia is the only dragon with the ability to fly and breathe fire? Is that it? Stop grasping at straws. All dragons fly and have breath weapons.

For example: during questing (I think it was during leveling) in Dragonblight, part of the quest chain that sends you to the Red Dragonflight's grove, during your time, fighting the Scourge, there you see red dragons doing literally that: flying by and breathing fire to the undead underneath them.

If you notice, the "flames" are also ripping open the earth and causing fissures to form. That is a classic trait of the Black Dragonflight, which manipulate fire, magma, and earth.

[Triceron]

"Devastation uses red and blue magic, Preservation uses green and bronze magic" seems rather straight-forward to me.

Because they do use those color magic, yes. Now where does it say they only use those colors? It doesn't. You added that yourself.

I'm arguing for what's blatantly shown in the video, which is the existence of red, blue, green and bronze magic, and a total lack of black magic.

Then you're splitting hairs. Nothing's changed, you're just regurgitating the same objectively wrong statements.

Let's be clear here, you're arguing that Evokers can not use any Black Dragon magic whatsoever, right? If that is your argument, then you're objectively wrong. Plain and simple.

So you're going to dismiss everything and say I am "arguing for the sake of arguing" after I demonstrated my case?

You're arguing in ignorance. Why would anyone legitimatize an argument in ignorance? If there's any reason to dismiss a bullshit argument, this would be it.

Take a look at said "prismatic effect": red, blue, green and bronze. No black.

C'mon man, the Dev literally describes the prismatic effect to us. I even posted the video above.

"You have a Red magic spell called Pyre. So when you shoot it out of your mouth, it twirls in the air, with all 5 of the Dragonflight's magic as it turns into the Red's spell"

[Ielenia]

If you notice, the "flames" are also ripping open the earth and causing fissures to form. That is a classic trait of the Black Dragonflight, which manipulate fire, magma, and earth.

Which means absolutely nothing? I mean, they're directing their breath straight down, so it's obvious the impact would damage the ground. Or are you saying that the ground is immune to all dragon breaths except the black dragons' breath attacks?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Take a look at said "prismatic effect": red, blue, green and bronze. No black.

So your saying the deep dive is wrong and when they say they are using all five magics for the prismatic spells or that making sure all 5 were represented they are incorrect?

if your going to dismiss the deep dive and have already said the other interview's cant be trusted as there 'PR speech" why not just say that you don't care what the dev's think or say and that you are right and every one else is wrong no matter who they are.

[Ielenia]

Because they do use those color magic, yes. Now where does it say they only use those colors? It doesn't. You added that yourself.

So, basically, you're saying, "because Blizzard didn't say they don't use black dragon magic, therefore they use black dragon magic"? Okay, let's play that game:
• By your logic, evokers can cast blood magic, because Blizzard never said they can't use blood magic.
• By your logic, evokers can shapeshift into bears, because Blizzard never said they can't shapeshift into bears.
• By your logic, evokers can dual-wield two-handed swords, because Blizzard never said they can't dual-wield two-handed swords.
• And so on and on.

Then you're splitting hairs. Nothing's changed, you're just regurgitating the same objectively wrong statements.

You don't seem to know what 'objectively' means, if that's the case.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So, basically, you're saying, "because Blizzard didn't say they don't use black dragon magic, therefore they use black dragon magic"? Okay, let's play that game:

They directly say they use all five magic's, this isn't a case of them leaving out something they cant do it's them telling us directly they they can use black dragon magic and you saying that's untrue because the specs don't focus on it.

[Triceron]

So, basically, you're saying, "because Blizzard didn't say they don't use black dragon magic, therefore they use black dragon magic"? Okay, let's play that game:
• By your logic, evokers can cast blood magic, because Blizzard never said they can't use blood magic.
• By your logic, evokers can shapeshift into bears, because Blizzard never said they can't shapeshift into bears.
• By your logic, evokers can dual-wield two-handed swords, because Blizzard never said they can't dual-wield two-handed swords.
• And so on and on.


You don't seem to know what 'objectively' means, if that's the case.

No, my evidence is Blizzard Devs said Evokers use all 5 Dragonflight's magic.

If they said 5, then it means 5, not 4. And no one is assuming they're talking about some unknown colored Dragonflight that is not Black.

Everything else you said is merely attacking a strawman. I never claimed any of those arguments, 'by your logic'.


It is an objective fact that the Devs stated that Evokers and Dracthyr have access to all 5 Dragonflight's magic. What you're trying to argue goes against direct statements by Blizzard developers.

[Teriz]

So your saying the deep dive is wrong and when they say they are using all five magics for the prismatic spells or that making sure all 5 were represented they are incorrect?

if your going to dismiss the deep dive and have already said the other interview's cant be trusted as there 'PR speech" why not just say that you don't care what the dev's think or say and that you are right and every one else is wrong no matter who they are.

That’s pretty much it.

Ielenia’s opinion > Everything else, including the facts.

[Ielenia]

No, my evidence is Blizzard Devs said Evokers use all 5 Dragonflight's magic.

They first mention five, then later they mention only four when describing the two specs, as they completely fail to mention usage of the black dragonflight's magic in any of said specs.

So unless there's a secret third spec that uses black dragonflight magic somewhere, there's a clear conflict of information, here.

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Ielenia’s opinion > Everything else, including the facts.

That's pretty rich coming from you.

[8bithamster]

That’s pretty much it.

Ielenia’s opinion > Everything else, including the facts.

Holy shit.. The irony.