1. #4341
    Does Method's 2nd place finish this tier overshadow their you-know-who drama? I guess I could include Echo in that statement as they are just Method reforged.
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  2. #4342
    Stood in the Fire Jngizu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrianFC View Post
    Man I love rewatching randomly linked previous WF kills. They usually have a fun quirk... whether its class/spec stacking, a strategy used that encounter designers clearly didnt intend, dubious use of boss mechanics, or outright bug exploiting.

    And THE NUMBER 1 RULE: Make sure to add "Two Steps to Hell" music to every video.... to make it 100% more epic.

    Heres another fun blast from the past with Paragons Heroic Al'AKir kill and the quirky p1 strat.,... and mass immunity/cloak stacking so they could reset the p2 Acid Rain debuff.

    I still have PTSD from that P1 a decade later. Also Rakez was GOAT.

  3. #4343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axxil View Post
    Does Method's 2nd place finish this tier overshadow their you-know-who drama? I guess I could include Echo in that statement as they are just Method reforged.
    Liquid just sucked ass on Jailer, they did fine before that honestly. Killing Rygelon was an impressive feat in the first reset as a lot of guilds even struggled with legendaries. I just don't get how they had the DPS with 5 healers on Rygelon, but then had weak DPS on Jailer (and I'm sure it wasn't a gear or class issue, more likely their tactic wasn't optimised).

  4. #4344
    i think theyll nerf jailers hp 10-15% hp and when they fix tthe bug his phase should be at the nerfed hp anyways for us bottom 500 pleb guilds

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gobarj View Post
    Liquid just sucked ass on Jailer, they did fine before that honestly. Killing Rygelon was an impressive feat in the first reset as a lot of guilds even struggled with legendaries. I just don't get how they had the DPS with 5 healers on Rygelon, but then had weak DPS on Jailer (and I'm sure it wasn't a gear or class issue, more likely their tactic wasn't optimised).
    feels like losing their main tank scott and trill one of their top dps was a big morale hit, also it might be a bit of "copium" as they say but it is true when they were the first ones to hit haldondrus and anduin they did like 100 pulls before halondrus nerfed 10% and anduin nerfed 15% and killed shortly after with allowing echo to catch up by spending less pulls on the easier version, also rygelon nerfed 6% after they did pulls-if they didnt nerf those bosses plus nerfing the mythic secret phase by like half ( excluding the bug where he dosent heal) jailer would still be alive probably.
    in this case a global release would probably feel alot better for morale of just the na guilds honestly the "headstart" is really irrrelevent in a race this long and with so many bosses that got nerfed after getting their first nullifying any advantage
    Last edited by arandomuser; 2022-03-31 at 11:35 PM.

  5. #4345
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Headstart isn't at all irrelevant. It can as you say be less valuable if nerfs comes in (but if no major nerf?) but it's never irrelevant.
    Both Echo as well as Liquid stressed how hard it is when doing the catch up game. You are de facto behind 16h from start.

    I'm not in the camp for a global release yet myself, I'm torn about it being sorted practically but I mean the word headstart kinda explains itself doesn't it.
    How much of an impact shift from details race to race but come on, there was a real fear at first that Jailer might become two even guilds, one gets reset and double legos 16h before the other and smack him within 1-2h.
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  6. #4346
    Im wondering if any guilds are going to take season 4 seriously

  7. #4347
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Dragons View Post
    Im wondering if any guilds are going to take season 4 seriously
    Unlikely. There's absolutely nothing exciting about the sequence of words Stone Legion Generals But With Affixes. I'm sure there will be a race of some kind but it won't be nearly as popular as the RWF for a new raid.

  8. #4348
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Unlikely. There's absolutely nothing exciting about the sequence of words Stone Legion Generals But With Affixes. I'm sure there will be a race of some kind but it won't be nearly as popular as the RWF for a new raid.
    That means all the guys who say “if the top teams didn’t cheat with splits more people could compete” can have their little race

  9. #4349
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnydee View Post
    Especially considering the UI if i remember correctly it was very... special.
    I actually rewatched the kill a couple weeks ago.
    It's worth watching again. It's just on another level, specially if you ever did the fight yourself when it was current.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUhdIdXQYOI

  10. #4350
    Quote Originally Posted by Totally Not Dragons View Post
    Im wondering if any guilds are going to take season 4 seriously
    Doubt it but you'll no doubt have some guilds who run them and claim world firsts but imo thats as relevant as claiming a world first in classic, same encounter that's already been beaten but you'll have those who argue ItS dIfFeReNt until the end of time.

    Plus by now I think it's safe to say it was highly likely they wanted a real Season 4 but those plans got cancelled and because the next expansion is a long way off this is an experimental period of rehashing their content yet again. I honestly feel we'll be seeing more of this towards the end of expansions, minimal effort from them & keeps all their raiding content relevant until next expansion.

  11. #4351
    Quote Originally Posted by AidanJLowe View Post
    Doubt it but you'll no doubt have some guilds who run them and claim world firsts but imo thats as relevant as claiming a world first in classic, same encounter that's already been beaten but you'll have those who argue ItS dIfFeReNt until the end of time.

    Plus by now I think it's safe to say it was highly likely they wanted a real Season 4 but those plans got cancelled and because the next expansion is a long way off this is an experimental period of rehashing their content yet again. I honestly feel we'll be seeing more of this towards the end of expansions, minimal effort from them & keeps all their raiding content relevant until next expansion.
    I would be perfectly fine if instead of a 13 month tier we always get a greatest hits season

  12. #4352
    Mortal strike was intended. Weird. Guess I was wrong

  13. #4353
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Unlikely. There's absolutely nothing exciting about the sequence of words Stone Legion Generals But With Affixes. I'm sure there will be a race of some kind but it won't be nearly as popular as the RWF for a new raid.
    Yeah, even beyond specific fights that are bad enough without affixes, adding negative affixes (i.e. affixes that make your life harder) is not going to increase engagement overall. I think there's a better chance of increasing engagement if you add positive affixes (i.e. affixes like damage/stat buffs or mechanics that make the player's life easier). While there are some people that like to make their lives harder to do some content (myself being one of them occasionally), that type of player is nowhere near the majority of players that are still around in the game.

    I remember back at the end of Legion there were rumors that Blizz would let the players wear all the legendaries they wanted at the very end, just because a 'wild west' scenario would be interesting and different from the norm. Doesn't have to be this exact example, but Blizz really needs to loosen restrictions and make things fun and crazy to get people to stay or even come back.
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  14. #4354
    Quote Originally Posted by gobarj View Post
    Say what you want about Max, but he's steamrolling that cash. He mentioned something north of 20k subs during the race which even after the race he's still going to retain a healthy amount (ignoring donations/sponsors/ad rev), all whilst you guys are discussing whether to spell it as Liquid or Liquit. LOL, man's making bank.
    He has confirmed himself that he doesn't keep all the money himself. Which is kinda obvious that other people involved want their share as well, if they are to spend 4 weeks in a room playing wow 16 hours a day.

    20k+ subs once every 15months isnt really that much, considering they have 23 or so raiders, some coders etc. He is nowhere close to the high end of streamers, but still probably making a good living out of this.

  15. #4355
    I am Murloc! Makabreska's Avatar
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  16. #4356
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Paragon was able to pull so far ahead because the race overall wasn’t nearly as optimized as it is today so there was more room to have huge wins. Things like class stacking and having alts weren’t as prevalent. And yes, their genius at coming up with the right strat would probably carry over until now, it’s still true that some of their innovations (like using an immunity to soak) aren’t that innovative now because everyone is just a lot more experienced.
    Class stacking has been a thing since Sunwell.

    It was overly prevalent in Sunwell, that many changes were made in WotLK to try and battle it.

  17. #4357
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekko View Post
    Class stacking has been a thing since Sunwell.

    It was overly prevalent in Sunwell, that many changes were made in WotLK to try and battle it.
    There were instances of it, but it wasn't as prevalent as Paragon made it. Paragon pushed the envelope and that's why they racked up some big wins. Here's a quote from the GM of Ensidia, Mek, during Cata. He was an officer in SK Gaming (who got world first in Sunwell), and even he says that Paragon was a leader in making class stacking and use of alts more prevalent:

    "I think alts are important and personally I enjoy playing them. It has become a big part of the game now because you need to have options. For example I think if you went back to Ulduar times you would probably have guilds using 5+ feral druids on a lot of bosses because they were so strong, but back then most guilds only used 1 or 2. It is just another development of the game and if you want to keep up you need to adapt. Paragon has handled this very well using a number of alts in top kills and I really believe they "paved new ground" in this area."

    https://www.method.gg/the-raiding-pinnacle-ensidia
    Last edited by SpaghettiMonk; 2022-04-02 at 12:10 PM.

  18. #4358
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I don't agree with @Azerate but your comparison is a bit skewed as well. Most of those longer RWF threads were from the time before it was streamed so there was a lot more speculation from posters about what was happening. (For a long time we'd have to wait for World 5th to even see the last boss.) It's not even remotely fair to correlate the number of pages in the RWF thread with the popularity of the game. (You'd also extrapolate that WoD was more popular than this expansion. kekW)
    WoD was more popular than this expansion by any conceivable metric.

  19. #4359
    Quote Originally Posted by antelope591 View Post
    WoD was more popular than this expansion by any conceivable metric.
    source: trust me bro

  20. #4360
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    source: trust me bro
    WoD had 10 million subs at launch and although it did lose about half there were still 5 mil+ subs near the end. Unless you're completely delusional you can't possibly believe Shadowlands was ever close to that.

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