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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    If that shit is true then Xe'ra is no longer the most psychotically delusional simp in the Warcraft universe its Danuser.

    Also LOL that the Jailer can still see a souls life from the Maw(unless he was lying to Sylvanas) and also apparently can see the future. How many powers did Danuser have to give this fucker just to save his waifu from being totally evil.
    He can't see the future, everything he "predicts" is stuff he planned to happen. He's just manipulating Sylvanas.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    good riddance for her as well, she was way worse than golden.
    She was the only one that tried to give Anduin some depth beyond Golden Boy Wesley Crusher expy so some credit is due.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Iain View Post
    Remember that Breaking Bad season finale where Walter White visits Skylar and right before she and, by extension all of the audience, are bracing themselves for another sanctimonious self-gratifying diatribe about how he was actually altruistic and did everything for his family, he instead owns up and explains his true reason? Remember that amazing catharsis that was building up for the entire show?

    There's no way Blizzard will, or even can, do that right now.
    Ow. This hurt me to read with how accurate it is.

    We're comparing mountaintops and dinosaur bones here.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by PhillyCheese View Post
    He can't see the future, everything he "predicts" is stuff he planned to happen. He's just manipulating Sylvanas.
    How could he predict Sargeras would stab Azeroth? Sargeras was obsessed with her.

  5. #165
    Sylvanas confirmed to be a Fast and Furious character. Muh family. Much like Arthas and his horse Golden is unable to write a villain protagonist who doesn't have monomania.

    As for Gilneas, the only thing new is the predictably trite take on Liam. That she didn't want to invade Gilneas and considered it a waste of time and resources has been the case since Cataclysm and only contradicted in Chronicle Vol. 3 right before BFA's character assassination tour de force, said retcon making zero sense in light of the fact that it claims both that Sylvanas meant to kill herself after Arthas was done and that she had territorial ambitions that, what with being dead if her suicide succeeded, she'd never be able to pull off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    it is completely real that this is a legitimate argument, not being able to see your loved ones again after death is very bad but that does not justify everything he did
    Obviously not, I mean look at him. His argument is also disingenuous and meant specifically to sway Sylvanas. However, for someone who's formative experience was being betrayed and maimed by his family to treat it as a weakness and exploit the close bonds with it in others is very appropriate. Much as it is for an immortal who's seen countless of iterations of finite lives go the same route and make the same mistakes with no way to help them avoid it and only being stuck sorting them to both consider said lives deterministic and irrelevant and to torture them out of spite as a prelude to wiping them out. Or to use an intelligence network, a literal fate-telling machine and events he personally instigated in order to feign clairvoyance and pull his agents to his side. Such a character would be a pretty functional villain. Sure is a shame we never fucking see him in game.

    @Nerovar

    Shadowlands baffles most when you get these glimpses that the writers did actually consider both worldbuilding and the implications of their writing, yet the lack of time and their own ineptitude crippled them from telling the story they wanted. That and choosing to write about the meaning of the soul, determinism and intelligent design through a Superfriends episode in an MMO who's lore has always been setting-first.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2022-03-25 at 10:32 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  6. #166
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    Well also a lot of whitewashing and retcons over Sylvanas actions which I predicted honestly.

    Battle for Gilneas, apparently she sees Genn like a father and respects him as an equal and she is actually deeply pained by being forced to invade Gilneas and killing Liam, being moved to see his death as an act of courage and love.

    Runs completely counter to her calling him a whelp in front of his father, and making a quip at Genn that he'll die in agony like Liam did in Heroes of the Storm (not canon I know but still in-character).

    So this whole time not only was Sylvanas invading Gilneas out of pragmatic villainy, she was actually tsundere about it the whole time and we either never knew or Christy simply never actually played the Worgen starting zone and simply winged it on second hand knowledge.
    Oh ffs. Why they let Golden keep writing books after War Crimes and Before The Storm or brought her on the team to write for cinematics and quests in-game I'll never understand but that's just fucking ridiculous. I can't wait for the "Don't worry guys Stormheim was just Sylvanas being intimate with her self-imagined father-figure Genn, there was only a 'little' poison on the arrow that pierced his chest after all she was gwumpy" - Golden writing for the Messiahification of Sylvanas for Expansion 12.
    Elune: "My sister needed Anima so I let my favoured people die. What is this 'Maw' you speak of?"
    Daily reminder that Steam has never had a monopoly on PC Gaming, don't mistake age and popularity for domination.
    Because people don't understand words: Forced and Necessity

  7. #167
    I take solace in the fact that WoW's lore is so transient and erratic that all this shit might as well not be canon. All this is built on sand and will change at the nearest occassion. When nothing matters, nothing matters; you can come up with your own better version and it will be as valid as the official stuff.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Sylvanas confirmed to be a Fast and Furious character. Muh family. Much like Arthas and his horse Golden is unable to write a villain protagonist who doesn't have monomania.

    As for Gilneas, the only thing new is the predictably trite take on Liam. That she didn't want to invade Gilneas and considered it a waste of time and resources has been the case since Cataclysm and only contradicted in Chronicle Vol. 3 right before BFA's character assassination tour de force, said retcon making zero sense in light of the fact that it claims both that Sylvanas meant to kill herself after Arthas was done and that she had territorial ambitions that, what with being dead if her suicide succeeded, she'd never be able to pull off.



    Obviously not, I mean look at him. His argument is also disingenuous and meant specifically to sway Sylvanas. However, for someone who's formative experience was being betrayed and maimed by his family to treat it as a weakness and exploit the close bonds with it in others is very appropriate. Much as it is for an immortal who's seen countless of iterations of finite lives go the same route and make the same mistakes with no way to help them avoid it and only being stuck sorting them to both consider said lives deterministic and irrelevant and to torture them out of spite as a prelude to wiping them out. Or to use an intelligence network, a literal fate-telling machine and events he personally instigated in order to feign clairvoyance and pull his agents to his side. Such a character would be a pretty functional villain. Sure is a shame we never fucking see him in game.

    @Nerovar

    Shadowlands baffles most when you get these glimpses that the writers did actually consider both worldbuilding and the implications of their writing, yet the lack of time and their own ineptitude crippled them from telling the story they wanted. That and choosing to write about the meaning of the soul, determinism and intelligent design through a Superfriends episode in an MMO who's lore has always been setting-first.
    very problem now is that sylvanas seems very silly! She really decided to obey the orders of Malganis? an evil being that spread the plague and didn't even think that maybe the jailer was evil?

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    I take solace in the fact that WoW's lore is so transient and erratic that all this shit might as well not be canon. All this is built on sand and will change at the nearest occassion. When nothing matters, nothing matters; you can come up with your own better version and it will be as valid as the official stuff.
    I pity the people who still play on roleplay servers for whatever reason.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  10. #170
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    She was the only one that tried to give Anduin some depth beyond Golden Boy Wesley Crusher expy so some credit is due.
    She was awful and tried to make the story some sort of war against men, her twitter was atrocious and her writing was cringe.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    first, she didn't want to attack because it could cause alliance wrath
    Kosak

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    then she did want to attack to get more power,
    Afrasiabi

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    now she was just forced and respect Gen
    Danuser




    Its like reading fucking tree rings on a stump.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    very problem now is that sylvanas seems very silly! She really decided to obey the orders of Malganis? an evil being that spread the plague and didn't even think that maybe the jailer was evil?
    That was the problem since the expansion started. From the bits I somehow doubt turning her into a monomaniac has done much for her IQ.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

    Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.

  13. #173
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    That was the problem since the expansion started. From the bits I somehow doubt turning her into a monomaniac has done much for her IQ.
    I'd say that "I will never serve" has surpassed "Draenor is free!" by miles. And we didn't even have to wait for the last patch

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post

    PFFF hahaha no seriously, this has to be a joke,
    No, it's true! the power of love, friendship and now courage, combined..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    I'd say that "I will never serve" has surpassed "Draenor is free!" by miles. And we didn't even have to wait for the last patch :cool:
    lol true, but can it truly beat the pointless "Draenor is free!" it's close..

  15. #175
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Kosak



    Afrasiabi



    Danuser




    Its like reading fucking tree rings on a stump.
    You could at least see the first two actually understand the character, when both first and second writing would make sense with the character with all her interactions.

    What Danuser thing is just awful fanfiction.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    That was the problem since the expansion started. From the bits I somehow doubt turning her into a monomaniac has done much for her IQ.
    Well they had to lower her IQ even further so she fits in with the rest of the Kyrian, since she has pretty much been punished to become one, cleaning up the maw XD

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    That was the problem since the expansion started. From the bits I somehow doubt turning her into a monomaniac has done much for her IQ.
    the problem is that sylvanas knows that the nathrezim are evil and if someone like malganis asks you to kill millions of people it is something that no one with a common sense could do. this is stupid i can't believe this is the big reveal!! all those interviews before shadowlands where they said that we would know the truth of sylvanas "mask fall" and we would understand their motives or they were a lie or rewriting

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Sylvanas confirmed to be a Fast and Furious character. Muh family. Much like Arthas and his horse Golden is unable to write a villain protagonist who doesn't have monomania.

    As for Gilneas, the only thing new is the predictably trite take on Liam. That she didn't want to invade Gilneas and considered it a waste of time and resources has been the case since Cataclysm and only contradicted in Chronicle Vol. 3 right before BFA's character assassination tour de force, said retcon making zero sense in light of the fact that it claims both that Sylvanas meant to kill herself after Arthas was done and that she had territorial ambitions that, what with being dead if her suicide succeeded, she'd never be able to pull off.



    Obviously not, I mean look at him. His argument is also disingenuous and meant specifically to sway Sylvanas. However, for someone who's formative experience was being betrayed and maimed by his family to treat it as a weakness and exploit the close bonds with it in others is very appropriate. Much as it is for an immortal who's seen countless of iterations of finite lives go the same route and make the same mistakes with no way to help them avoid it and only being stuck sorting them to both consider said lives deterministic and irrelevant and to torture them out of spite as a prelude to wiping them out. Or to use an intelligence network, a literal fate-telling machine and events he personally instigated in order to feign clairvoyance and pull his agents to his side. Such a character would be a pretty functional villain. Sure is a shame we never fucking see him in game.

    @Nerovar

    Shadowlands baffles most when you get these glimpses that the writers did actually consider both worldbuilding and the implications of their writing, yet the lack of time and their own ineptitude crippled them from telling the story they wanted. That and choosing to write about the meaning of the soul, determinism and intelligent design through a Superfriends episode in an MMO who's lore has always been setting-first.
    I think it's clearly an attempt at trying to have one's cake and eat it too, like not wanting Worgen fans to be too angry that Sylvanas is so so extremely sympathetic and absolutely whitewashed in a moment where she is essentially a clear villain to another player's story, but at the same time look at how much of a badass Genn is written as, even being seen as an equal to the Banshee Queen herself who has taken on much more powerful foes than Genn.

    It's just that the writers are complete shit and haven't really portrayed either characters in a way that's consistent with what we've known so far like Genn being easily taken out by a meme character or Sylvanas being completely heartless in Gilneas. I mean, sure, I can believe that perhaps Sylvanas back then would be capable of respecting the Gilneans as worthy adversaries given that they put up a very good fight in Gilneas, but that hardly lines up with the Worgen's consistent weak portrayal in the rest of the story past that as well as Sylvanas's climb to being a Saturday morning cartoon villain that looks at everyone like an insect ready to be squashed for the sake of her master scheme.
    Last edited by Ogren; 2022-03-26 at 02:15 PM.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Sylvanas confirmed to be a Fast and Furious character. Muh family. Much like Arthas and his horse Golden is unable to write a villain protagonist who doesn't have monomania.
    it's hilarious how this is what sylvanus has been retconned into, a literal Fast and Furious character all about "muh femly". Everything she did was for "family" and we should just throw the character that she was pre-BFA into the bin, cause now she's been this F&F morally grey character all along.

    Fantastic writing as always Blizzard, top tier

    as I called it few pages back, turns out her motivation was indeed as stupid as "OMG I DID IT ALL FOR LOVE", just top kek stuff
    __________________________________________________

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogren View Post
    Well also a lot of whitewashing and retcons over Sylvanas actions which I predicted honestly.

    Battle for Gilneas, apparently she sees Genn like a father and respects him as an equal and she is actually deeply pained by being forced to invade Gilneas and killing Liam, being moved to see his death as an act of courage and love.

    Runs completely counter to her calling him a whelp in front of his father, and making a quip at Genn that he'll die in agony like Liam did in Heroes of the Storm (not canon I know but still in-character).

    So this whole time not only was Sylvanas invading Gilneas out of pragmatic villainy, she was actually tsundere about it the whole time and we either never knew or Christy simply never actually played the Worgen starting zone and simply winged it on second hand knowledge.
    ya, this type of shit was expected at this point of the narrative state of wow. Of course it's all been retconned into w.e the heck this nonsense is.

    From: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...74/unknown.png

    to "oh I respect and see myself in Genn! I regret killing Liam!" -_-

    like holy fck, the amount of retconning is on another level with Danuser and his writing team, like they are just ripping apart w.e existing lore they get their hands on to push their garbage writing.
    __________________________________________________________________

    another hilariously garbage part of the new book, and boy there is a lot, is how it's ended with Sylvanus going: "oh ya I'm actually happy with my exile, cause it's a goal!". And she's going to find and be with her love Danuser Nathanos, and the two will be completing their daily quests together in a Jailer free Maw... so basically just community service.

    and btw, Nathanos is going to also get off scot-free for all the evil shit he did for his "queen". From the messed up stuff with killing his cousin and stealing his body to all the stuff with the war/genocide/helping the jailer. And good god reading the stuff in the reddit thread about how Danuser's self-insert is being written with sylvanus.

    this is what Danuser thinks is a punishment for genocide, murder, mind control, torture, starting a world war, betrayal, dooming the entire universe cause you were pissy about the afterlife, not caring about a dying planet, actually listening to a dude called the Jailer and so on. I mean, Danuser is not even having her get any Revendrath time.

    Tedium is somehow the punishment for all that, and we'll be expected to forget and forgive when Sylvanus shows up in a later expansion all forgiven cause she collected some souls
    Last edited by voidox; 2022-03-26 at 03:23 PM.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Who is this book written for? Sylvanas fans will hate it, lore fans will hate it, and casual players won't even bother with it.
    Just for Danuser to feel good about himself.

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