Poll: Feedback

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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    At 27+ keys maybe, but every spec could do 25s, and even now while vesper is best since the nerf they aren't that far ahead, kyrian holy can keep it close and same with druid. Sounds like you are just aiming for the most narrow niches to point to discrepancy.
    That's really dishonest. Until this patch (aka, most of this expansion), the dps disparity between healers was absolutely enormous. Same with the DPS difference between like prot paladins and blood DKs.

    Thankfully it seems like they may finally be getting the memo that this is actually a big problem.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  2. #462
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Sigh. Another hater with a conspiracy theory level narrative

    I am not even going to say that I particularly liked the whole legendary thing in SL. I think the idea of having legendaries is great. What I am not a great fan of is the means of acquiring them. But it's pretty obvious that this was a genuine response to player feedback. This is the problem with people like you. You'll bitch and moan about all the problems with the game (during Legion: Making Legendaries random drops is terrible. Make professions relevant again). Yet when they actually follow player feedback, and the result is (predictably) shit, then you find a ridiculous conspiracy.

    For the record, acquiring legendaries does not require any gold. It simply requires a lot of work. Which is exactly what people were asking for back in Legion.



    Are you saying you'd rather they designed a game that didn't give you any reason to spend time playing?
    When you cannot properly dismiss an argument, just use the "conspiracy theory" button. It works like a charm.

    As for Torghast, I'd have very much preferred it to be 100% optional content, much like pet battles.

  3. #463
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felis igneus View Post
    I guess your scale includes the bargain bin asset flips on steam with missing executables on the other end?
    Even WoD isn't the worst gave ever. I think my scale is pretty good. 1-3 are for broken games that dont work. 4 and 5 are for bad games with little content. Anything 6 and up can be considered enjoyable if you the the IP, but once you get to an 8 the games become fantastic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Easy: Heirlooms and Ulduar are the only two exceptional things about WotLK.

    The rest of the expansion, LK HC, was the only thing that was better than average (and only a rating of "fairly good" I might add), everything else was bad, worse or horrible.

    Funny thing is, WotLK is mostly a bad expansion because of the stuff it contained; WoD is a bad expansion because of all it was lacking.
    But they are pretty much equally shit!
    And how is Cata good but wrath is bad on your scale?

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    how is wotlk the worst expansion
    I wasn't the guy originally quoted but as someone who would put Wotlk in my bottom 2, here's my reasoning for it:

    Only one of the raid tiers was genuinely great IMO. Ulduar was fantastic but it did not make up for Naxx being a re-used raid (and a bad one at that) making the first tier painfully boring because of how easy it was, and Trial of the Crusader is down there with the worst of the worst as well. I also believe Icecrown Citadel to be an overrated raid. It's not bad, and it has a couple of great fights in it like Lich King and Putricide, but overall to me it felt a bit like Black Temple 2.0 but worse. (I guess that is very subjective and you might like ICC more than BT, but as someone who did raid BT when it was current, I felt ICC was a less enjoyable version of that)

    Dungeons were too easy and too bland. Yeah there were plenty of them and that's definitely a problem with the last few expansions, SL having only 8 dungeons for so long, but the issue I have with the ICC dungeon pool is so many of them are bottom half of dungeons ever added to the game. I don't know if it had any dungeon I would call top tier. A big part of the activity of playing outside of raids seemed to boil down to doing these super easy 5-man dungeons for daily currency which wasn't really fun either. I know some people hate WQs or daily quests but I'll gladly do those over the 'daily HC for some currency' structure.

    A lot of people seem to put a huge amount of focus on lore and story though which I've never really done with WoW. I think Warcraft has a cool world but the stories have never been that amazing to me. Personally I care more about the actual content like the dungeons and raids being fun (as that is the main repeat content you do) and that's why Wotlk would place in my bottom 2 and expansions like SL and BFA would be a few places higher up - not because they were amazing but because they had IMO better raid quality overall and better dungeons / content outside raids.

  5. #465
    I wouldn't call it the worst. It's like most expansions, it did some good and did some bad. The overarching story with Sylvanus and the Jailor was pretty bad, but I thought the Covenants stories were pretty good. It had too many currencies and didn't add anything to races or classes. Torghast was trash at first but in its current state, I think it's pretty enjoyable. Granted, I don't make a point to force myself to do it.

    I would also say the current level of communication is good, but that's a pretty low bar for games in general. That said, it does give me a bit of hope for the future.

  6. #466
    IMHO SL is the worst exp so far.

    One key metric I use is how many of my RL friends are playing? All but one have left.

    Story and Quests: The story was good the first time through, not too bad the second time. After that I realized that every play through would be the same, so now I actively avoid story and main quests if at all possible.

    If I had started playing WoW in SL I really doubt I would still be playing.

  7. #467
    Nah, WoD>Shadowlands>BfA

    Quit a lot faster in BfA and had more fun initially in SL.

  8. #468
    It's between BFA, WOD and SL. Cata was gold compared to the rest of those shit stains.

  9. #469
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    No, but only because I'd rate BfA as the worst. SL comes pretty close to being as bad as BfA though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Even WoD isn't the worst gave ever. I think my scale is pretty good. 1-3 are for broken games that dont work. 4 and 5 are for bad games with little content. Anything 6 and up can be considered enjoyable if you the the IP, but once you get to an 8 the games become fantastic.
    5 would usually imply average, 6 slightly above average on a x/10 scale, which is why I asked for clarification as it seemed like you were saying that even the worst of wow is still average or better, which in turn didn't seem to reflect your usual opinion (iirc) as I've observed it.
    #1) MMO-C should be glad that the British Empire is no more, because they'd want a piece of all the copium trade here.
    #2) Angry players come to the forums to complain about the game... but what loser only comes to the forums to complain about the forums and its users?
    #3)Felating Blizzard too eagerly may lead to oxygen deficiency and worst case asphyxiation. Long-term effects range from delusions up to cerebral necrosis. #4) The WoW playerbase doesn't deserve housing.

  11. #471
    SL wasn't the worst but only because Legion systems are still carrying the game

  12. #472
    Brewmaster Evaddon's Avatar
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    Right snug up with Shadowlands, but WoD still holds the cake for the Apex Crystal farming bullshit that made up most of the games "content"

  13. #473
    Standalone? Maybe not, but it came off the back of BFA which was already pretty bad and usually Blizzard go one good/one bad. Cata was bad, MoP was good, WoD was bad, Legion was good, BFA was bad so everyone expected Shadowlands to be good.

    Sadly with Shadowlands it feels like Blizzard gave up, they doubled down on their mechanics thats only reason to exist was to keep the player playing as opposed to making the game better/fun, busy work. That was so clearly implemented in ways that was obviously flawed (and reported in the beta) so that they could fix it mid-expansion and be like "hey guys don't worry we fixed that problem that we created!".

    I feel it was this blatent development cycle of implement a bad system, "fix" it later to make it seems like we're improving the game without having to actually improve the game. This clear disregard and lack of respect for their playerbase that has led so many to quit. Shadowlands may not be the worst expansion ever, but it's certainly the most I've felt Blizzard don't even care, that they aren't even trying to make a good game there just trying to keep players busy, keep them logging in.

    Shadowlands could have had half it's timegated, grindy, restrictive, pointless mechanics removed and replaced with nothing and it would have just been a straight up better game for it and this is telling by how as patches came out they did what everyone expected. They reduced the grind, removed the timegates, removed the restrictions, there "fix" for the mechanics they introduced was to make you not need to do them. It's maniuplative, using the goodwill they built up over the years and people are starting to see it.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam552 View Post
    I kind of agree with you but then I keep thinking of how bad I find Shadowlands lore/story.
    I honestly hated the WoD story just as much (I think the time traveling thing was unnecessary to move the story forward and butchered the story just as much as shadowlands) but the "normalcy" of the lore in Legion leaves me somewhat hopeful we can leave this behind us easily as well... please... just let me hope

  15. #475
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    At least other expacs just had crappy lore. In SL, Danuser went out of his way to butcher everything the company had built up over 2 decades. SL is easily the worst for that reason alone.
    Kupo.

  16. #476
    Worst expansion? No. Second worst expansion? Yes.

    Shadowlands at least didn't have the no-flying debacle that WoD had. Or the lack of a capital city. Nor did it leave out a zone that should have been there based on established lore in Outland, Farahlon.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    What really worries me is I don't see them improving the writing for 10.0 and if its still successful because of the games mechanics and raids and shit I don't see them attempting to improve it for 11.
    You're going to be a much happier person if you just accept that warcraft lore ended many years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    IMHO SL is the worst exp so far.

    One key metric I use is how many of my RL friends are playing? All but one have left.
    That's kind of a tainted metric though. Many people have been getting further and further disenfranchised since Legion (longer for some of us), and had already basically divorced ourselves from the game.
    Shadowlands committed the crime of being fantastically mediocre after the dumpster fire of BfA. I don't think it would have driven players away if it had launched while Bliz still had some goodwill, but that well is dry. They needed to full reverse course, and did not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by The Vindicator View Post
    And yes, if you think a video game should require as much time as a literal job to maintain multiple characters to a reasonable degree - that is crazy
    No, the person who actually thinks that SL requires you to treat it as a job is crazy (or doesn't play the game).

    SL has a lot of very annoying grinds, but it's far away from a literal job. There are no weekly chores you have to do to get into m+, pvp or raiding. And playing alts is extremely easy now with the catch ups. You can pretty much get m+/raid ready in like a day, which wasn't even possible in WoD.

    You get a shitton of the new currency you need for your BiS 291 lego (I had over 12k after a few days with playing casually, but you only needed 2k I believe) just when you get started in Zereth Mortis and you can easily purchase either 226 gear with anima or buy the new crafting gear on the AH. You also unlock ALL conduits just by getting the new faction to friendly. And after that you don't have to do any of that, no torghast, no callings, no zereth mortis if you wanted to do endgame content.

    Heck if we even wanna go deeper, the rep grinds and currency grinds in both 6.0 and 6.2 were far more brutal they are now. I firmly remember having to farm for weeks to get the 300k apexis crystals to buy the fel arrakoa mount, meanwhile the most expensive rep mounts are 5k anima, which you can farm in like an hour or two in zereth mortis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I wasn't the guy originally quoted but as someone who would put Wotlk in my bottom 2, here's my reasoning for it:

    Only one of the raid tiers was genuinely great IMO. Ulduar was fantastic but it did not make up for Naxx being a re-used raid (and a bad one at that) making the first tier painfully boring because of how easy it was, and Trial of the Crusader is down there with the worst of the worst as well. I also believe Icecrown Citadel to be an overrated raid. It's not bad, and it has a couple of great fights in it like Lich King and Putricide, but overall to me it felt a bit like Black Temple 2.0 but worse. (I guess that is very subjective and you might like ICC more than BT, but as someone who did raid BT when it was current, I felt ICC was a less enjoyable version of that)

    Dungeons were too easy and too bland. Yeah there were plenty of them and that's definitely a problem with the last few expansions, SL having only 8 dungeons for so long, but the issue I have with the ICC dungeon pool is so many of them are bottom half of dungeons ever added to the game. I don't know if it had any dungeon I would call top tier. A big part of the activity of playing outside of raids seemed to boil down to doing these super easy 5-man dungeons for daily currency which wasn't really fun either. I know some people hate WQs or daily quests but I'll gladly do those over the 'daily HC for some currency' structure.

    A lot of people seem to put a huge amount of focus on lore and story though which I've never really done with WoW. I think Warcraft has a cool world but the stories have never been that amazing to me. Personally I care more about the actual content like the dungeons and raids being fun (as that is the main repeat content you do) and that's why Wotlk would place in my bottom 2 and expansions like SL and BFA would be a few places higher up - not because they were amazing but because they had IMO better raid quality overall and better dungeons / content outside raids.
    Yeah been playing Wotlk a lot on private servers and tbh the raiding overall isn't that great, although I did like ICC and even the argent dawn raid to some extent.
    I think that Wotlk raiding is highly regarded, because it was so accessible for everyone. It was when raiding became "mainstream" and you could clear them with basically just your rl friends (10man). You'd suddenly see a lot of people raid who never raided before or only did karazhan/za.

    Compared to TBC and all the other expansions except maybe Cata, Wrath's raiding was quite bad and lackluster in comparison.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2022-03-12 at 11:34 PM.

  19. #479
    It is tough to say which is the worst between BFA and Shadowlands. I'd say BFA is still worse though. They have got to drop this garbage class design in my opinion though. Legion class design was fine and then it was butchered in BFA and they kept a similar design in Shadowlands. The borrowed power in BFA or Shadowlands did not feel good enough to make up for what was lost in Legion. Also WHERE is another talent row? Desperately need some new flavor. I want to see some cool NEW abilities, not rehashed ones in 10.0.

  20. #480
    Shadowlands is so far and away the worst expansion it's not even close

    At least in WoD you could comfortably play multiple alts effortlessly
    At least in WoD you just leveled to 100 and jumped straight into the end game
    At least in WoD I didn't have to engage with a ton of different temporary systems to make my character worth playing.


    The biggest lie of this entire expansion is that it was ever going to be 'Alt friendly'

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