New allied race/class speculations

[Ielenia]

He's clearly a power-hungry snob guy, just like Kael'thas. So, i think their desires were close.

You think this is the case, therefore you don't know if this is the case.

It is. But, that usually what happens.

It's not.

So, basically comfirming what i said.
If you don't see an immediate resolution, you consider it dropped.

No, I consider it dropped because no one is talking about it. Not a single peep from anyone in Shadowlands. Not even from Renathal.

Funny how Kel'thuzad ended up in Maldraxxus.

Yeah. Because Sire Denathrius basically put him there. He's the one that recruited Kel'Thuzad.

Anyway, you didn't answer my second argument: why Death themes again? We're done with the Death-themed expansion.

What are you even talking about? If the datamining stuff is to be believed, we're getting a dragon expansion, not a death-themed expansion.

Why put it there, then? Wasn't much of a plot point, was it?

Probably because they wanted to do something with it at first, but then decided to just drop it.

All Scourge members eventually draw their inspiration from the Shadowlands.

Wrong. They're not "inspired" from the Shadowlands. Necromancers don't peer into Maldraxxus and say "I want to raise that kind of undead".

And guess who just saved their entire realm from annihilation? You guessed it. Ding ding ding! We, the Heroes!

And guess what that means? Everyone gets to return to their duties like they have for countless eons.

Why do you think you farmed reputation with them for an entire expansion?

To convince them to help us against the threats going on. We most certainly did not farm reputation just so we can ask them to come to the mortal realm with us.

Does this look like a college exam to you? It's just a forum discussion...

It's amusing how you seem to believe "common decency" is akin to "college exams".

Pretty sure it was Pelagos.
I'll find it when i have more time.

In other words... you won't.

He's already done.
Sire Denathrius haven't and you already eulogize him.

In other words, a dropped storyline. Just like Sire Denathrius since no one is even acknowledging his existence in Shadowlands.

Dropped storylines are not dropped characters, so i've got that going for me. Which is nice.

Med'an.

[Auburst]

Why would Sethrak be Druids?
Don't you prefer full-on Ogres?

I like the idea of snake bears. Ogres are a bit too fat for me.

[username993720]

You think this is the case, therefore you don't know if this is the case.

It's all speculation at this point. But, i see the similarities in character.

It's not.

No? Didn't the Burning Legion try to invade Azeroth for the god-who-knows what time?

No, I consider it dropped because no one is talking about it. Not a single peep from anyone in Shadowlands. Not even from Renathal.

Once again confirming what i said. You're a guy of immediate satisfaction. Once you don't get it, you lose interest.

Yeah. Because Sire Denathrius basically put him there. He's the one that recruited Kel'Thuzad.

"Within the Shadowlands, the Arbiter assigned Kel'Thuzad's soul to the realm of Maldraxxus due to the great ambition he displayed in mortality".

What are you even talking about? If the datamining stuff is to be believed, we're getting a dragon expansion, not a death-themed expansion.

The Scourge. Why is if featuring again? You said that once an expansion is over, its themes cannot feature again, such as the denizens of the Shadowlands.

Probably because they wanted to do something with it at first, but then decided to just drop it.

Probably because it is something they will use later on.

Wrong. They're not "inspired" from the Shadowlands. Necromancers don't peer into Maldraxxus and say "I want to raise that kind of undead".

Necromancers originate from the Shadowlands. From the Maldraxxus ones to the Maw ones.

And guess what that means? Everyone gets to return to their duties like they have for countless eons.

Nah. They'll come and joing our cause against the different cosmic forces. Not all of them, but some of them. Because at the end of the day, the Shadowlands is also threatened by them.

To convince them to help us against the threats going on. We most certainly did not farm reputation just so we can ask them to come to the mortal realm with us.

Look back at allied races and see what i mean.

It's amusing how you seem to believe "common decency" is akin to "college exams".

Decency is telling you i don't remember.
Being a dickhead would be trolling you.

In other words... you won't.

I will. I just don't wanna leave you hanging.

In other words, a dropped storyline. Just like Sire Denathrius since no one is even acknowledging his existence in Shadowlands.

Neptulon re-emerged. What makes you think Denathrius wouldn't re-emerge?

Med'an.

A comic character that wasn't even canon.
You gotta try better than that.

I like the idea of snake bears. Ogres are a bit too fat for me.

Snake bears? What's even that?
Oh, so every race has to be a supermodel?

[Ielenia]

No? Didn't the Burning Legion try to invade Azeroth for the god-who-knows what time?

You forget that the Burning Legion had conquered a sizeable chunk, if not most of the cosmos before coming to Azeroth. And also: the Legion's latest coming to Azeroth was mostly because Gul'dan wanted revenge, and because Kil'jaeden wanted to kill Velen and his "traitorous draenei".

Once again confirming what i said. You're a guy of immediate satisfaction. Once you don't get it, you lose interest.

Stop acting like you know me. It's insulting. Especially as you get things wrong repeatedly. It's not about "immediate satisfaction", it's about relevancy.

"Within the Shadowlands, the Arbiter assigned Kel'Thuzad's soul to the realm of Maldraxxus due to the great ambition he displayed in mortality".

Right. Check what you wrote there: Kel'Thuzad was sent there because of his ambition, not because he was a lich or necromancer. Remember that Thrall's mother also went to Maldraxxus, and she was not an undead or necromancer, in life. Also, Lady Vashj was sent to Maldraxxus, another one who was neither undead or necromancer in the mortal realm.

The Scourge. Why is if featuring again?

Tying loose ends. Letting the player know that the Scourge is now without a master to reign them in. It's not a promise of future death-expansions.

Probably because it is something they will use later on.

If they did not use it when it was relevant, the chances of it ever being used again become slim, and it only goes down from there.

Necromancers originate from the Shadowlands. From the Maldraxxus ones to the Maw ones.

No, they don't. Necromances originate from whatever planet the necromancer is when they start to study necromancy arts. Kel'Thuzad did not come from Maldraxxus. Neither did Noth the Plaguebringer. Or Heigan the Unclean.

Nah. They'll come and joing our cause against the different cosmic forces.

No, they won't. Especially not as playable races.

Look back at allied races and see what i mean.

No. Because none of the playable races, "allied" or not, are nowhere near in the same situation as the races of Shadowlands. All of them, all of them have a 24/7 job to do that they can't simply stop doing. There aren't sylvan who's just lounging around doing nothing. No ascendant lounging around doing nothing. No maldraxxi lounging around doing nothing. No venthyr lounging around doing nothing. Their societies are not like the mortal races' societies, where we can have individual who don't have jobs and/or adventure around. They all have duties they must attend to.

Neptulon re-emerged. What makes you think Denathrius wouldn't re-emerge?

I've already explained why. More than once.

A comic character that wasn't even canon.
You gotta try better than that.

"Med'an as well as the comic series are canon."

[Auburst]

Snake bears? What's even that?
Oh, so every race has to be a supermodel?

A bear with snake features. Make it gigamodel.

[Porcos Voadores]

i REALLY wanted Hozen. but don't think they can make it

but ogres and vrykull i think can make there ways as playable races.

[username993720]

You forget that the Burning Legion had conquered a sizeable chunk, if not most of the cosmos before coming to Azeroth.

And still, they tried to conquer Azeroth 3 times already and failed.

And also: the Legion's latest coming to Azeroth was mostly because Gul'dan wanted revenge, and because Kil'jaeden wanted to kill Velen and his "traitorous draenei".

What a load of crap.
Gul'dan didn't seek revenge and as a mere servant, he didn't orchestrate their entire invasion.
Kil'jaeden always wanted revenge. Nothing different than previous times.

Stop acting like you know me. It's insulting. Especially as you get things wrong repeatedly. It's not about "immediate satisfaction", it's about relevancy.

You can't assume to know what would be relevant in the future. Even the Scourge being relevant once again, after we dealt with the whole theme of Death for the god-who-knows time (Naxxramas - Scourge invasion 1.0; WotLK - Scourge invasion 2.0; Shadowlands - Scourge invasion 3.0; 9.2.5 - Scourge invasion 4.0), shows how much your argument of "we're already done with" is pointless.

Right. Check what you wrote there: Kel'Thuzad was sent there because of his ambition, not because he was a lich or necromancer. Remember that Thrall's mother also went to Maldraxxus, and she was not an undead or necromancer, in life. Also, Lady Vashj was sent to Maldraxxus, another one who was neither undead or necromancer in the mortal realm.

I know that.
But, we can clearly see that Maldraxxus Liches are the prototypes to the Scourge ones.

Tying loose ends. Letting the player know that the Scourge is now without a master to reign them in. It's not a promise of future death-expansions.

We already knew that at the start of the expansion, when Sylvanas tore the helm in two.
You said once an expansion is over, its themes cannot feature again.
So, i ask you: why are we seeing Scourge again? We've finished with the whole Shadowlands saga, which was supposed to tie-up the Scourge storyline for good.

If they did not use it when it was relevant, the chances of it ever being used again become slim, and it only goes down from there

.

That's your problem. The inability to see something being used again. If we were in Cataclysm, you'd probably say Neptulon would never appear again, that the Legion wouldn't invade again and that the Scourge is done after WotLK.

That's why i've been claiming you only confirm my suspicions. Your lack of patience to see something resolved in the future instead of right away is empeding this whole discussion. Yours and Triceron's.

No, they don't. Necromances originate from whatever planet the necromancer is when they start to study necromancy arts. Kel'Thuzad did not come from Maldraxxus. Neither did Noth the Plaguebringer. Or Heigan the Unclean.

I meant that their origins are from there. The first Necromancers came from Maldraxxus (with Primus being the first). The Scourge are mere copies of them.

No, they won't. Especially not as playable races.

Oh, yes. They will.

No. Because none of the playable races, "allied" or not, are nowhere near in the same situation as the races of Shadowlands. All of them, all of them have a 24/7 job to do that they can't simply stop doing. There aren't sylvan who's just lounging around doing nothing. No ascendant lounging around doing nothing. No maldraxxi lounging around doing nothing. No venthyr lounging around doing nothing. Their societies are not like the mortal races' societies, where we can have individual who don't have jobs and/or adventure around. They all have duties they must attend to.

Do the Lightforged have no cosmic job?

I've already explained why. More than once.

Dude, if you thought Neptulon was done for in Cataclysm, then you only reinforce my claim. Saying "oh, but he was imporant to the Shaman class, yada yada yada..." is all wisdom in retrospect.

"Med'an as well as the comic series are canon."[/QUOTE]

Dude. You using comic characters that never even apppeared in-game, and probably never will, makes for a weak argument.
That's why i say you gotta do better than that.

A bear with snake features. Make it gigamodel.

Odd..but, do Sethrak even have something tying them to Druidism?

[Auburst]

Odd..but, do Sethrak even have something tying them to Druidism?

I don't know, but there should be something.

[cocomen2]

A bear with snake features. Make it gigamodel.

only if it gonna "Hisss-Hisss" like snake, with snake tail)

[Auburst]

only if it gonna "Hisss-Hisss" like snake, with snake tail)

With big split dicks for tongues.

[Ielenia]

And still, they tried to conquer Azeroth 3 times already and failed.

So? Do you know for a fact that no other planet in the entire cosmos the Burning Legion invaded ever managed to resist the Legion? If you don't, saying that "we could repel them three times" isn't all that special. For all we know, there may be other planets around the cosmos that have repelled the Legion just as much as Azeroth did, maybe even more so.

You can't assume to know what would be relevant in the future. Even the Scourge being relevant once again, after we dealt with the whole theme of Death for the god-who-knows time (Naxxramas - Scourge invasion 1.0; WotLK - Scourge invasion 2.0; Shadowlands - Scourge invasion 3.0; 9.2.5 - Scourge invasion 4.0), shows how much your argument of "we're already done with" is pointless.

We can safely assume we're not going to visit the Shadowlands again as a main plot point anymore, just like we never had any other expansion's story be based in Outland or AU Draenor.

So, i ask you: why are we seeing Scourge again? We've finished with the whole Shadowlands saga, which was supposed to tie-up the Scourge storyline for good.

Because this is Blizzard tying loose ends from the Shadowlands' story. The fact the Scourge is without a "leash". Plus, the Scourge isn't restricted to the Shadowlands story. The Scourge has been an ongoing problem since the game's inception.

That's your problem. The inability to see something being used again. If we were in Cataclysm, you'd probably say Neptulon would never appear again, that the Legion wouldn't invade again and that the Scourge is done after WotLK.

If you truly believe that, you not only know nothing about me, but you haven't cared to try to understand or even pay attention to what I write.

That's why i've been claiming you only confirm my suspicions. Your lack of patience

Would you kindly stop pretending you know me? Last time I'm asking. And I'll repeat this again: your claims there show how little you know. This isn't about "lack of patience" or "immediate gratification". This has to do about subject relevance. If you insist on this stupid argument, despite me explaining how you're wrong more than once, I'll consider you to be trolling.

I meant that their origins are from there. The first Necromancers came from Maldraxxus (with Primus being the first). The Scourge are mere copies of them.

Once again, false. Necromancers' origins are from the first mortals to study the magical arts of necromancy. They didn't come from Maldraxxus. And the Scourge isn't "mere copies of them".

Oh, yes. They will.

You can lie to yourself and ignore the facts all you want, it won't change anything. I've already explained why the Shadowland races are highly unlikely to ever become playable.

Do the Lightforged have no cosmic job?

Nope. The Burning Legion is over.

Dude, if you thought Neptulon was done for in Cataclysm,

And if you think that is my argument, you clearly haven't been paying attention. But, again, that isn't surprising since you already admitted, more than once, that you don't pay due attention.

Dude. You using comic characters that never even apppeared in-game, and probably never will, makes for a weak argument.
That's why i say you gotta do better than that.

And you should stop moving goalposts. First you say "hE's NoT eVeN cAnOn" and when you're proven wrong, you now say "hE dOeSn'T eVeN aPpEaR iN-gAmE".

[username993720]

So? Do you know for a fact that no other planet in the entire cosmos the Burning Legion invaded ever managed to resist the Legion? If you don't, saying that "we could repel them three times" isn't all that special. For all we know, there may be other planets around the cosmos that have repelled the Legion just as much as Azeroth did, maybe even more so.

How is this relevant?
We were talking about how repeating the same thing is redundant. I'm showing you its an ongoing theme in WoW.

We can safely assume we're not going to visit the Shadowlands again as a main plot point anymore, just like we never had any other expansion's story be based in Outland or AU Draenor.

1. We can definitely do, as you go to the Shadowlands during the Quel'thalas questline in 9.2.5, even though the rift has already been closed.
2. I wasn't talking about going to the Shadowlands again. I was talking about using its characters again. Remember how we didn't know where Gul'dan was at after he was blasted through that portal by Archimonde? Yea... that.

Because this is Blizzard tying loose ends from the Shadowlands' story. The fact the Scourge is without a "leash". Plus, the Scourge isn't restricted to the Shadowlands story. The Scourge has been an ongoing problem since the game's inception.

It sounds like you're coming up with excuses. You very well know how using the Scourge yet once again is redundant, yet you have to support it for your own sake.
There is definitely no need to show, yet again, how the Scourge is leaderless after they did exactly that at the beginning of the expansion, with the breaking of the helm, and well after we dealt with the forces of Death, marking the end of the entire saga. It would be like showing the remnants of the Legion after the 7.3 cinematic, where we chained Sargeras and finally took a sigh of relief. Yet, we didn't deal with the remains of that force, did we?
The whole point of Shadowlands was to wrap up the Lich King storyline and his associated Scourge, regardless of its veterancy. Would you have expected the Legion and the Illidari to appear yet again after 7.3? No, you'd say it's redundant. That we've already dealt with them. But, for argument sake, you feel the need to support such redundancy.

If you truly believe that, you not only know nothing about me, but you haven't cared to try to understand or even pay attention to what I write.

I can see that by how you write. "I can't see it right now, therefore it will never appear again".

Would you kindly stop pretending you know me? Last time I'm asking. And I'll repeat this again: your claims there show how little you know. This isn't about "lack of patience" or "immediate gratification". This has to do about subject relevance. If you insist on this stupid argument, despite me explaining how you're wrong more than once, I'll consider you to be trolling.

You don't realize it's the same thing?
Being unable to see something becoming relevant again is not good.

Once again, false. Necromancers' origins are from the first mortals to study the magical arts of necromancy. They didn't come from Maldraxxus. And the Scourge isn't "mere copies of them".

"Maldraxxus is the birthplace of necromantic magic, where necromancy was developed by the Primus. He is responsible for the creation of Maldraxxi rune magic, which serves to manipulate necromantic energy, and its more powerful counterpart, Domination, whose purpose is the suppression of another."

Everything the Scourge has, from architecture to units, can be found in the Shadowlands, primarily Maldraxxus.

You can lie to yourself and ignore the facts all you want, it won't change anything. I've already explained why the Shadowland races are highly unlikely to ever become playable.

Duties don't prevent someone from joining another's cause.

Nope. The Burning Legion is over.

There are no demons left? (Looking at 9.2.5 Scourge invasion)

And if you think that is my argument, you clearly haven't been paying attention. But, again, that isn't surprising since you already admitted, more than once, that you don't pay due attention.

If it's only storylines you've been talking about, why are we still arguing? You very well know characters can come back, as Neptulon himself did.

And you should stop moving goalposts. First you say "hE's NoT eVeN cAnOn" and when you're proven wrong, you now say "hE dOeSn'T eVeN aPpEaR iN-gAmE".

Because you're using characters with absolutely no relevancy to the game. We're not talking about outside sources who feature characters we never seen and never will. We're talking about WoW, the game.

[wushootaki]

Honestly, I care little about any other races being added at this point outside Ogre.

Yes, they are ugly.

Yes, they are big ( there are ones that are tauren size)

But there are 2 elven races in the horde before Ogre, when Ogre is an OG race. They should have been added in Cataclysm and are seriously long overdue.

They even work as an allied race as we have multiple people who can bring them in (Mag'har, Goblins, Rexxar).

They have great customization options already (skin tones) and could be the actual shock trooper unit the Horde needs, as most Tauren seem to be more pacifist-inclined by nature of their culture.

Classes: Warrior, Hunter (hyena pet), Shaman, Monk (we have brewmaster Ogres), Mage, Warlock, Death Knight, Priest

[Ielenia]

How is this relevant?

It is relevant to your argument about Azeroth being "special" in some form or another.

We were talking about how repeating the same thing is redundant. I'm showing you its an ongoing theme in WoW.

So what? Again, unless you can prove that no other planet in the cosmos was targeted and coveted by the Burning Legion as much as Azeroth's, then your point is moot.

1. We can definitely do, as you go to the Shadowlands during the Quel'thalas questline in 9.2.5, even though the rift has already been closed.

Patch 9.2.5 meaning it's still the Shadowlands expansion. And the rift that was closed was the one above Icecrown. We have other means to travel without the use of that rift. Especially since that rift only leads to the Maw.

2. I wasn't talking about going to the Shadowlands again. I was talking about using its characters again.

How often do we see anyone from Outland? The arakkoa? The smart ogres? The Consortium? Or the ones from AU Draenor? The plant dudes? The powerful ogres? The uncorrupted Arakkoa?

Remember how we didn't know where Gul'dan was at after he was blasted through that portal by Archimonde? Yea... that.

Which happened at the very end of the expansion, not at the very beginning.

It sounds like you're coming up with excuses.

I'm giving you the reason as it is.

I can see that by how you write. "I can't see it right now, therefore it will never appear again". Pretty child-minded, if you ask me.

Alright. If you can't argue like a normal human being without being insulting to other people, as I asked you multiple times now, this is my last response to you. Congratulations. You "won". Not with arguments, oh no, but by being a disgusting human being that can't argue without insults.

You don't realize it's the same thing?

Your inability to see the difference is not my problem.

Being unable to see something becoming relevant again is a narrow-minded way of thinking.

"Narrow-minded", says the guy who can't seem to understand when he's wrong and is arrogant to the point of judging people.

"Maldraxxus is the birthplace of necromantic magic, where necromancy was developed by the Primus. He is responsible for the creation of Maldraxxi rune magic, which serves to manipulate necromantic energy, and its more powerful counterpart, Domination, whose purpose is the suppression of another."

That's irrelevant, though. Because while necromancy may have been created in Maldraxxus, that doesn't mean "necromancers come from Maldraxxus". That's a whole different ballpark. That's like saying I come from the Middle East because I'm mathematician, since the numbers we use today were invented by the middle-eastern civilizations of old.

Duties don't prevent someone from joining another's cause.

Yes. Yes, they do. Because they're duties that must be tended to all the time. They don't get vacations.

There are no demons left? (Looking at 9.2.5 Scourge invasion)

"The Burning Legion is over". "You think there are no demons left?" And you accuse me of "not knowing the difference between terms."

If it's only storylines you've been talking about, why are we still arguing? You very well know characters can come back, as Neptulon himself did.

"Can" and "will" are vastly different terms. The chances of us seeing Sire Denathrius again are slim to none.

Because you're using characters with absolutely no relevancy to the game.

And now you're again moving the goalposts. Now it's "tHeY hAvE nO rElEvAnCy To ThE gAmE".

We're not talking about outside sources who feature characters we never seen and never will.

Oh, so it's basically cherry-picking now? Med'an, which you don't care about, "will never feature in WoW", but Sire Denathrius, somehow, "WILL show up again".

We're talking about WoW, the game.

Which is based off the Warcraft franchise's lore, of which Med'an is indisputably part of the canon lore.

[Biomega]

Which is based off the Warcraft franchise's lore, of which Med'an is indisputably part of the canon lore.

I thought Me'dan's current canonicity was very much in dispute? He was officially retconned out of being Guardian of Tirisfal, and has not appeared or been mentioned in WoW anywhere. His canon status is at best unclear, definitely not "indisputably canon lore".

[Triceron]

I thought Me'dan's current canonicity was very much in dispute? He was officially retconned out of being Guardian of Tirisfal, and has not appeared or been mentioned in WoW anywhere. His canon status is at best unclear, definitely not "indisputably canon lore".

Only his status as Guardian of Tirisfal, otherwise he still exists and mostly ignored. He hasn't been rendered non-canon the way Metzen literally hand-waived Finnal Goldensword.

[Biomega]

otherwise he still exists

Positively or negatively, though?

As in, has it been canonically confirmed he still exists, or has it simply NOT been confirmed that he doesn't?

Because otherwise that's what I mean by "unclear" - we know, officially, that at least part of his character was actively removed. We know basically nothing (to my knowledge, anyway - happy to be proven wrong) about the rest.

[Ielenia]

Positively or negatively, though?

As in, has it been canonically confirmed he still exists, or has it simply NOT been confirmed that he doesn't?

Because otherwise that's what I mean by "unclear" - we know, officially, that at least part of his character was actively removed. We know basically nothing (to my knowledge, anyway - happy to be proven wrong) about the rest.

"Med'an as well as the comic series are canon."

[Triceron]

Positively or negatively, though?

Indifferently? He hasn't appeared anywhere outside of the comics. Which is neither a good or bad thing, since comic/manga/novel characters rarely get recognition in game.

As in, has it been canonically confirmed he still exists, or has it simply NOT been confirmed that he doesn't?

Once in canon, always canon, until said otherwise. That's how canon works.

Like everything in the RPG books? It was ALL canon until the very moment that Blizzard outright states it's not canon. That's how it works, for better or for worse.

And yes, it makes a huge mess of things when you consider there's a shit ton of inconsistencies that will remain as such until further explained. I mean, that's how canon works for any universe.

As a Star Wars fan, as much as I hate the Lucas directors cut with Greedo shooting first, it's still the definitively canonical sequence of events until Disney decides to do something about it.

Because otherwise that's what I mean by "unclear" - we know, officially, that at least part of his character was actively removed. We know basically nothing (to my knowledge, anyway - happy to be proven wrong) about the rest.

Characters don't get removed from canon 'by default'. They have to actively be removed by an authorative source, and honestly that rarely happens. Blizzard doesn't make a habit of it since you never know when some developer decides to bring back some obscure character for shits and giggles.

[Iheartnathanos]

Like everything in the RPG books? It was ALL canon until the very moment that Blizzard outright states it's not canon. That's how it works, for better or for worse.

I find it fascinating just how consistent those RPG books are with the lore they create anyway. I would bet they still use it as a reference Bible (something that is obviously sorely lacking in their narrative dept.)