[SPOILER]We finally lost her..Why let Horde lose another character?

[wushootaki]

Finally, after the Alliance constantly kept losing prominent characters and the Horde lost none, finally the Horde lost a prominent character too.

What? Is this sarcasm?


Horde have been losing characters since BC --- Zul'jin and Kargath were the first to go

[Ielenia]

With that said, it's really pathetic how they never try to make Alliance have any actual stakes. Last expansion Mekkatorrque and Jaina were both raid bosses, and yet they are still alive? That's bullshit, make the story have some stakes, kill off some characters, make us care about fighting and losing them.

Like... Varian? Maraad? Fandral Staghelm?

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It has to remain 50-50 when the alliance loses someone, but when the horde loses someone that's apparently OK. While I had no love for Garrosh some of the other people like Nazgrim or Zaela I did like. I think it's high time for alliance characters to start going crazy and we have to kill them. Should have started around Pandaria or so.

It started in Cataclysm. Remember? Fandral Staghelm, the co-leader of the night elves with Tyrande at the time (while Malfurion was still sleeping) turned evil and joined the Fire Druids in the Firelands?

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Some people here keep saying that Sylvanas is very popular, but is she really? I mean, despite being """popular""", she couldn't keep HoTS from dying, nor BfA and Shadowlands from going down in history as terrible expansions only barely better than WoD, so much for that "popularity" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Popularity isn't a "miracle cure-all". You can have the best, most popular, well-written character and still have the story be a complete dogshit. Sylvanas could be the most well-written, most popular character in the whole world, not just in Warcraft, and that still wouldn't save HotS.

A perfect, pristine plank is not going to keep the wooden boat from sinking when every other wooden plank in the boat's body is rotted and broken.

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Legion alliance finally loses someone important! but in order to not hurt their feefees blizz went ahead and killed voljin for parity to an unnamed warlock pet and he bitched out and made sylvanas warchief because hes not only weak but hes also incredibly stupid.

The Alliance lost Fandral Staghelm back in Cataclysm, just FYI.

[Jinpachi]

Pelagos: Sylvanas Windrunner. There can be no true justice without compassion and I can see your deeds bear the mark of the Jailer's influence, an influence we failed to contain.
Pelagos: Then you know in your heart to whom you must answer, in trusting justice to your most fervent adversary.
Pelagos: Are there any gathered here who object to this fate.
Pelagos: So be it.
Sylvanas: The Jailer did not control me. Death would be a merciful end Tyrande. However long it takes.
Tyrande: What game do you play now Banshee?
Tyrande: The Sylvanas I hunted would never submit to the blade of her enemy. Your newfound remorse might be genuine. There will be no peace for you Windrunner.
Tyrande: The prisoner is in my charge now.
Tyrande: Below lies the Maw. Every Soul lost in its depths, betrayed or condemned, you should find and send forth to the Arbiter. You will toil there under Dori'thur's watchful eye. This is how you shall bring renewal to your victims. <Darnassian>, old friend. Watch her well.
Pelagos: The time for your judgment is at hand.
Sylvanas: My actions were mine alone and I accept their consequences and I do not expect your mercy.
Tyrande: But it can never erase all you have done. Until there is peace for the souls of your victims.
Tyrande: Bring her.
Tyrande: An unjust fate to which you doomed so many. And it will be there that your penance begins. To be judged with the compassion all souls deserve. Scouring every darkened reach until the final soul is free and you are all that remains and my people.
Tyrande: It shall be done.
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She finally left us!

Why did Anduin survive and live well? Can't the Alliance lose one or two main character?

Varok,Sylvanas....what did the Hordefans win?? We are all losers!

I look at it this way.
The alliance has the feelgood-kiddy-good guys always win angle going for it. (Marvel)
The Horde has realistic, interesting characters with more grownup development (DC)
that's just my take as i see it, i see no real reason to keep it equal on both sides, because they both have distinct flavor that makes them stand out. What's the point of doing a Garrosh angle on alliance side? that story has already been done.

[Ophenia]

Well that's a good ending - IF that's an ending at all

Just imagine if next expac's intro cinematic features Sylvanas in the Maw finding something and unleashing/releasing it..... hehehehe forums would go down in flames

[Pheraz]

You can always tell who never played W3, or Horde. I vaguely knew who she was, in Vanilla, from W3. Most of the people that I played with in my guild were new to WoW, or from Everquest, so they didn't understand her character either.

Now fire back that of course you played W3, even though anyone who did would never post what you did. I'm not a Sylvanas fanboy, but I understood her character from the beginning in WoW, and thought she had the most tragic story arc Metzen made, even though she didn't get used in a visible way for the Alliance until Wrath. The same could be said for Jaina, she stood in a tower in Theramore for all of vanilla, and was just a non-loot piñata for the Horde to have fun trying to kill.

I played wc3 and I played from the very first day on wow EU release but always alliance and I rushed through wc3 orc and undead campaign.

Thanks @MyWholeLifeIsThunder for the very detailed answer. There is enough time now until 10.0 to check out the undead quests. Maybe I was wrong after all

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

The problem is that anyone and everyone that did the ICC dungeons knows that can not be the case. We see one half of Uther's soul being its own entity with its own views when Jaina comes close to frostmourne. Yet at the same time the other half of Uther's soul also had its own views being its own entity. As such no new cinematic can turn around and go "No, the soul of sylvanas is 100% the same thing as the banshee queen."

Dude, the point isn't whether soul shards aren't their own autonomous entities, but whether they intrinsically divided as the good/bad aspects of the person. Which they are not.

The whole point of Shattered Legacies was to show that the version of Sylvanas that existed in Forstmourne, the one frozen at the time of her death, was appalled by the choices Banshee Sylvanas made. Of course they are not the same, the *whole* point is to show how the context affects the person.

Ranger Sylvanas is not something that Banshe Sylvanas is *missing*, not her empathy or "feelings"; She's literally just who she used to be.

Thanks @MyWholeLifeIsThunder for the very detailed answer. There is enough time now until 10.0 to check out the undead quests. Maybe I was wrong after all

*thumbs up*

[Fistfighter]

Like... Varian? Maraad? Fandral Staghelm?

It started in Cataclysm. Remember? Fandral Staghelm, the co-leader of the night elves with Tyrande at the time (while Malfurion was still sleeping) turned evil and joined the Fire Druids in the Firelands?

The Alliance lost Fandral Staghelm back in Cataclysm, just FYI.

That's just one character, tho, and almost 10 years ago.
And yes, Fandral was a cool side character that, as a WoW exclusive character, has had a pretty well story arch written for him, but he was in no way an important character.
Maraad might aswell not exist. What story did he have? Apart from him narrating the WoD animated shorts, and then randomly sacrifing himself for Yrel. He's a complete side character when it comes to WoW.

Varian was a cool enough character, and a main character. And yeah I am suprised they did actually let him die, and not even bring him back in Shadowlands, that takes some restraint from the devs. But he still wasn't a War3 character. They don't kill those, ever.

[Dhrizzle]

That's just one character, tho, and almost 10 years ago.
And yes, Fandral was a cool side character that, as a WoW exclusive character, has had a pretty well story arch written for him, but he was in no way an important character.
Maraad might aswell not exist. What story did he have? Apart from him narrating the WoD animated shorts, and then randomly sacrifing himself for Yrel. He's a complete side character when it comes to WoW.

Varian was a cool enough character, and a main character. And yeah I am suprised they did actually let him die, and not even bring him back in Shadowlands, that takes some restraint from the devs. But he still wasn't a War3 character. They don't kill those, ever.

What about Lord Victor Nefarus and Lady Katrana Prestor?
Bishop Alonsus? Wilfred Fizzlebang?

[Pheraz]

That's just one character, tho, and almost 10 years ago.
And yes, Fandral was a cool side character that, as a WoW exclusive character, has had a pretty well story arch written for him, but he was in no way an important character.
Maraad might aswell not exist. What story did he have? Apart from him narrating the WoD animated shorts, and then randomly sacrifing himself for Yrel. He's a complete side character when it comes to WoW.

Varian was a cool enough character, and a main character. And yeah I am suprised they did actually let him die, and not even bring him back in Shadowlands, that takes some restraint from the devs. But he still wasn't a War3 character. They don't kill those, ever.

Arthas must be an exception to this rule.

I don't think there is any pattern how they select either a horde or alliance character to kill of. Eventually horde was previously an easy target because they were naturally a bit more dark. Now they've got enough alliance characters built up so they could easily select for example Turalyon or Anduin go mad. Tyrande successfully survived her dark arc so I guess she is save. But I think we could spare night elves for some xpacs, can we?

[Soikona]

The problem is that anyone and everyone that did the ICC dungeons knows that can not be the case. We see one half of Uther's soul being its own entity with its own views when Jaina comes close to frostmourne. Yet at the same time the other half of Uther's soul also had its own views being its own entity. As such no new cinematic can turn around and go "No, the soul of sylvanas is 100% the same thing as the banshee queen."

One word. Retcon. Come on, this is WoW.

[Leodric]

Sylvanas fan bois utterly btfo, kek. She will be brought back though I bet, maybe in another Scourge expansion or something similiar

[Bloomer]

I am glad Sneedvanus finally fucked off for good

[Every Pwny]

We know she's not gone, this is just a menial task in the maw that is no longer a hell because the jailer is gone. This is just an excuse to get her out of the spotlight when she was heavily featured in the last several expansions. With how much the writers love her, to the detriment of every single other character that is around when they are writing her, she will be back in an expansion or two and all will be forgotten.

[Shadowferal]

One word. Retcon. Come on, this is WoW.

Retcons are never a good idea.

[Ogren]

OP is wayyyy too cynical and assuming Sylvanas won't come back in a big damn heroes moment with epic music playing, you just know it can happen.

[Fistfighter]

What about Lord Victor Nefarus and Lady Katrana Prestor?
Bishop Alonsus? Wilfred Fizzlebang?

Are you arguing that Wilfred Fizzlebang, a joke character introduced about 7 days before he got killed, is an important Alliance character?

Onyxia yeah, that was a cool character arc, an actual full fledged character, and I guess you could call her Alliance character too.

[Dioporco]

You should check out some of the lore in Shadowlands. It shows that after death a soul is fed into the cosmic machinery to serve a purpose. No rest, no freedom, just made to serve. Now this may not be true of every part of the Shadowlands but it is what Sylvanas saw, it is what she believed and it is what motivated her.

Sorry but you should check the lore.


There is a precise CYCLE of life and death in wow, we saw the death part.


Souls are anchored by LIFE to the mortal body and they generate the ANIMA throughout their lifespan, then when MORTALS die their ANIMA is absorbed by the "shadowlands" and is basically the energy/matter that keep the shadowlands going on.

There is no REBIRTH beside WILD GODS which arent proper MORTAL SOULS.


So we have no idea what create the SOUL and binds to the mortal body, hence ther is no "to serve" bullshit


Is like if Sylvanas was mad at the water cycle of

Precipitation > Evaporation > Condensation > Back to Precipitation


Durrrrrr the cycle to serve!!!


Pure bullshit and plothole between the writing team + shadowlands lore getting rebooted 6 months before launch + cinematcs that use different words etc

[Rootsbum]

If time passes diffrently in SL, im sure she will show up next expansions "Hello! Ive been gone for 500 shadowlands-years"

[Nathreim]

Another Horde character ruined by the hacks at blizz. At least she is safe from them now.

[Talon8669]

Dude, the soul split only means that there was a part of her soul frozen at the time of her death.

All that Banshee Sylvanas did was of her own free will -manipulated as anyone can be- but HER choice.

Arthas literally had the helm of DOMINATION exerting dominion over him. Sylvanas, once she was freed from Arthas control, was FREE.

You can't get mad if you're misunderstanding the plot. That's not the story's fault.

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Sylvanas isn't getting tortured, she's just gonna have to redo the "Return Lost Souls" quest until the Maw is empty.

And that doesn't sound like torture to you?