[SPOILER]We finally lost her..Why let Horde lose another character?

[Lupinemancer]

Pelagos: Sylvanas Windrunner. There can be no true justice without compassion and I can see your deeds bear the mark of the Jailer's influence, an influence we failed to contain.
Pelagos: Then you know in your heart to whom you must answer, in trusting justice to your most fervent adversary.
Pelagos: Are there any gathered here who object to this fate.
Pelagos: So be it.
Sylvanas: The Jailer did not control me. Death would be a merciful end Tyrande. However long it takes.
Tyrande: What game do you play now Banshee?
Tyrande: The Sylvanas I hunted would never submit to the blade of her enemy. Your newfound remorse might be genuine. There will be no peace for you Windrunner.
Tyrande: The prisoner is in my charge now.
Tyrande: Below lies the Maw. Every Soul lost in its depths, betrayed or condemned, you should find and send forth to the Arbiter. You will toil there under Dori'thur's watchful eye. This is how you shall bring renewal to your victims. <Darnassian>, old friend. Watch her well.
Pelagos: The time for your judgment is at hand.
Sylvanas: My actions were mine alone and I accept their consequences and I do not expect your mercy.
Tyrande: But it can never erase all you have done. Until there is peace for the souls of your victims.
Tyrande: Bring her.
Tyrande: An unjust fate to which you doomed so many. And it will be there that your penance begins. To be judged with the compassion all souls deserve. Scouring every darkened reach until the final soul is free and you are all that remains and my people.
Tyrande: It shall be done.
------------------------------------------
She finally left us!

Why did Anduin survive and live well? Can't the Alliance lose one or two main character?

Varok,Sylvanas....what did the Hordefans win?? We are all losers!

Finally, after the Alliance constantly kept losing prominent characters and the Horde lost none, finally the Horde lost a prominent character too.

[Dioporco]

That was already explained? She burned Teldrassil to send more souls(more power) to the Maw, she stuck with the jailer because they were supposed to be working together to unmake the cycle of life and death.

Unmake for what reasons? not explained.

"this world is a prison" -> join army of the JAILER that JAILS and DOMINATE people, why?


0 explaination.


plus the 4chan leak show us how it was scrapped after making the cinematics.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Wait! Did Pelagos judge her to the maw? Oh wow, hahahah! This is excellent. I love this guy.

[Triceron]

Varok,Sylvanas....what did the Hordefans win?? We are all losers!

You still have Basic Campfire

[Aucald]

i am so confused and this just made me remember. we never actually saved all the souls wrongfully stuck in the maw? so now Sylvanas is the one to save them?

We saved only a small handful during our tenure as the Maw Walker, returning a pittance to the Covenants and rescuing a few of those who died at Teldrassil. There are countless souls still present in the Maw, not to mention those who dwell in Torghast, which may itself be quasi-infinite in scope. Needless to say, Sylvanas has quite the Sisyphean task ahead of her.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Can't the Alliance lose one or two main character?

The Alliance has already lost half a dozen kingdoms and never recovered them. That's worse than the Horde losing a mere half dozen scapegoats and walked away scott free for their repeated mass murder campaigns over the past 40 years.

[qwerty123456]

But this only divide our cosmos further! How will we survive whats to come without her??????

Don't give them ideas or she's gonna find some magical artifact in the Maw the Jailer had that helps save us from the before ones or what ever the fuck the super Legion/Void is called.

She Became like him due to her soul being split. Now she's whole, there's no way she's gonna want anything to do with that once her cosmic penance is done. Not like she can anyway since the helmof domination is no more.

The LK and scourge story is done.

All that's left is the forsaken/calia and scourge /cult of the damn leftovers that are a nuseance, like that belf quest line that was datamined.

Her soul split made her like Uther not Arthas. Uther didn't do half the fucked up shit she did and even saw that what he did was wrong and changed she just kept letting herself get worse.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Anduin's entire tone and characterization revolved around how he was depicted in the Shattering. He's her baby and absolute favorite.

And I more mean that the "voice" she gave Jaina and Thrall in that regard had a lot of influence on future portrayals. She wrote Thrall's origin book. It deviated plenty from the LotC adventure game. Taretha was someone she invented.

Anduin’s tone and characterization comes directly the 2005 Warcraft comic which golden had nothing to do with. In it he, try’s to get his father to treat the common folk better, looks poorly upon how captured orcs are treated, pushes for peace between the alliance and horde, says his father shouldn’t be racist to orcs, ect.

The only part of anduin that wasn’t there when golden wrote the shattering was his use of the light.


As far as thrall goes he’s obviously metzen’s creature with him and golden in the past saying they worked hand in hand in origin novel and metzen obviously being in control of his story before leaving blizzard.

Jaina Is likely the character she had the most impact on as she’s had a ton of novel time but she kinda just falls into the same category as anduin with almost all of her traits being there before goldens work and her just following those, the few times we had golden try and do her own thing with Jaina would be things like her forgiving the horde at the end of war crimes or having a blue dragon boy toy both of which blizzard threw away at the first chance.

Pretty much the only thing that golden has tried to make a thing with these characters as a contractor (out side of thrall who had deep metzen involvement) that actually stuck around and influenced the game was anduin and the light every thing else was either there before her or the devs didn’t like and undid.

[Rendark]

Same shitty writing as ever. Give it some time and she will be back. A new big bad will start to win and she will pop up merged with the owl and be like "i'm the new avatar of Elune! I'm here to help!".

[LordVargK]

You don't get it. The Alliance losing a bunch of territory on cue, being humiliated turned into an incompetent target dummy and then told to get over it only to be thrown some sacrificial scapegoat character is actually big Alliance bias.

Yeah, probably. I don't have a Horde brain, maybe I'm not smart enough.

[Varx]

Don't give them ideas or she's gonna find some magical artifact in the Maw the Jailer had that helps save us from the before ones or what ever the fuck the super Legion/Void is called.




Her soul split made her like Uther not Arthas. Uther didn't do half the fucked up shit she did and even saw that what he did was wrong and changed she just kept letting herself get worse.

I quoted what she said, she slowly became as deplorable as arthas. That's what I meant, not the same situation between her and Uther, I'm talking about her actions.

[Vampyrr]

People hype Danuser as the big Sylvanas fanboy, but ignore that Alliance players basically have an absolute heckler's veto over everything that ends up happening in the lore. Glad I unsubbed. Amused that I read this after a day where I was strongly thinking about resubbing just to "give it another chance". Ha, no.

If Alliance got our way Varian would still be alive. Genn should have wolfed out and jumped from the airship in legion onto the big robot not Varian. He should have sacrificed himself to defend his King.

[Video Games]

Don't give them ideas or she's gonna find some magical artifact in the Maw the Jailer had that helps save us from the before ones or what ever the fuck the super Legion/Void is called.




Her soul split made her like Uther not Arthas. Uther didn't do half the fucked up shit she did and even saw that what he did was wrong and changed she just kept letting herself get worse.

Implying danuser doesnt alreave have a mcguffin/deus ex machina lined up to save her

[Dhrizzle]

Because she WAS controlled. Sure, they try to make it seem "different" by making up some bullshit that her soul was split, blah blah blah, but in reality that simply means she was controlled by the Jailer just like Arthas was (and she still had the audacity to talk down on Arthas like he's any different from her).

Arthas wasn't controlled, Sylvanas wasn't controlled, Uther wasn't controlled. They were manipulated into positions that brought out their worst traits (some more easily than others) but at every point they were exercising their free-will.

- - - Updated - - -

Good fucking riddance

But, this surprised no one, we knew this shit was going to happen the moment they tried to redeem her and were welcomed, rightfully, with sticks and stones, clearly Danuser could not make his waifu die and me turned to nothingness like Arthas, but since no one wanted redemption, and night elves would still complain(rightfully) after the fiasco of the night warrior this was the only way out.

But this isn't even a good punishment, she didn't send that many people there, , she could, fin theory, finish the task quicker than we would like, she should be doomed to find every single soul that was wrongly send here, not only the ones she was responsable and stay there forever.

When did they try to redeem Sylvanas? She has always been basically irredeemable and this is pretty much the best that could be expected for her.

[Gadzooks]

We lost her the moment she burned down that tree.

For two expansions the writers have put every effort into turning a previously logical and interesting character into an absolute mess of contradictions. Leaving her in Shadowlands is really the best solution to stopping the walking plot disaster she has become from infecting the wider story.

I agree. I read the spoilers last night on WoWhead, and while I have questions, as a whole this is probably the best solution to the Danuser problem, overall - she didn't walk out of the Maw, back to Azeroth, and they didn't lop her head off. (would she even die? She's undead. They haven't explained how that all works. When Forsaken die...aren't they dead already? But I digress.)

The bigger picture to me, is she's on ice. She can be brought back - and hopefully at a time when a new narrative lead is there, and that hack Danuser long gone, so they can do something worthwhile with the character (and leave Steve's self insert lost in the Maw forever.) I don't hate the old Sylvanas, but I do hate what Afrasiabi and Danuser did to her character. And for what, in the end? Not a whole lot.

I do agree though that its frustrating to see just about every Horde character with a personality get sent down the drain with little effort to replace them. And goodness knows what state Forsaken lore is going to be in the future with Calia at the reins.

They couldn't kill Jaina. Or Anduin - although him dying instead of Varian would be acceptable, never cared at all for Anduin. Genn is the only really interesting leader of the Alliance right now. The gnomes might as well not exist, in Shadowlands (anyone notice that there were no gnomes in the afterlife? Or dwarves?) There's no Dwarven representation in the Shadowlands, either. Just elves, and humans. Is Mekkatorque even mentioned once in all of Shadowlands?

While I do agree there needs to be an Alliance centric rise and fall plot arc for an Alliance character, like Mekkatorque goes rogue, or the Dwarves revolt, and Magni gets the woons, but don't act like they've been consistent with Alliance races, either. They need to resolve a LOT on both sides. They did Baine dirty, they did gnomes dirty, they did dwarves dirty, there's a lot of victims to the heavy ham hands of Steve Danuser and anyone else at Blizzard who crafted the overall narrative since Legion. Let's just all agree they need new, better writers and a creative director who can keep the teams focused on all of the factions, races and characters, and develop them all, not just pulling a Danuser and creepily focusing on a waifu. (A creative director who doesn't think walking on water is "wow, so kooky and weird")

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Was it ever explained why Elune specifically de-powered Tyrande during her fight with Sylvanas, in order to prevent Tyrande from beating/killing Sylvanas? Has Elune earmarked Sylvanas for something... greater?


THE CHILD OF LIGHT AND SHADOW

[Dhrizzle]

Insane how Sylvanas gets punished (somehow even if she should have decapitated on spot with a "die bitch" in background but ok)


and still we have no idea about : why she burned teldrassil, why she stick with the jailer if he was basically arthas +++++



ah well

Sylvanas saw the cycle set up by the First Ones as controlling and it reminded her of the domination of Arthas. The Jailer told her he would smash this cycle and allow everyone true freedom. The most sympathetic way you can look at Sylvanas is she wouldn't have made these decisions if it wasn't for her previous trauma, but she still inflicted her worst experiences on others to advance her goals making her unforgivable.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the whole reason they were able to "redeem" her. Her soul was split in "good" and "evil" and the "good" half didn't do anything bad, so in a sense she wasn't her self when she did all of those terrible things. It might not be direct mind control or anything like that, but she was absolutely controlled/manipulated.

Blizzard keeps going back and forth on it anyway. I don't even care. Sylvanas should just take another dive off ICC if you ask me.

They didn't redeem her - going into the Maw for a punishment is not redemption. There also wasn't a "good" and "evil" soul.

- - - Updated - - -

There was a big plot point about the fact that her soul was split. There was evilvanas and goodvanas, and Jailer stole goodvanas away. After the events of Sanctum Jailer gave goodvanas back to evilvanas (I guess even an ancient evil might have a sense of humor like that).

Bottom line is - if Sylvanas soul wasn't split in the first place (caused by Arthas, Jailer's pawn), OR Jailer didn't hide away her piece to make sure only evilvanas was available, none of this would happen. So yeah, he basically controlled her, kind of indirectly but still.

It was never about a "good" and "evil" soul. The fragment the Jailer held did not experience the trauma of Domination by Arthas and could not believe she would go on to be such a murderous monster. The internal conflict wasn't about good overcoming evil, it was about the Sylvanas-that-was coming to terms with the Sylvanas-that-is. Until she had accepted that and healed her soul she could not aid everyone else in stopping the Jailer.

- - - Updated - - -

Imagine thinking Blizzard would genuinely kill a titular character. See you in a couple expansions girl, hope hell is badass.

Erm Garrosh, Varian, Vol'jinn, Saurfang...

[Florena]

A fitting punishment. She has to actively spend probably a loooong time helping the people she wronged the most, rather than getting off with a slap on the wrist or getting to die in a blaze of pseudo redemptive glory and not having to face up to it all.

I can't say I'm much of a fan of everything leading UP to this moment, but this bit at least is good.

[Dhrizzle]

Was it ever explained why Elune specifically de-powered Tyrande during her fight with Sylvanas, in order to prevent Tyrande from beating/killing Sylvanas? Has Elune earmarked Sylvanas for something... greater?


THE CHILD OF LIGHT AND SHADOW

Best guess is Ysera intervened so the other Night Warriors and her would have a chance to save Sylvanas's life. The other possibility is when Tyrande called on Elune for enough power to deliver the killing blow it drew the goddess's attention to the Shadowlands and she realised shit was fucked and withdrew her power while she figured out what was going on.

[uopayroll]

Why did Anduin survive and live well? Can't the Alliance lose one or two main character?

Have you not been on the internet lately?? It is obviously because he is white and male