Seasons in wow...Just Nooo!!!

[Talon8669]

It kind of is black and white through... you changed your hobby didn't and rather then let others enjoy it you want it razed to ground and rebuilt for YOUR circumstances. Not only is that unhealthy it kind of makes you a prick.

There comes a time to just move on.

Idk, I don't think wanting something that doesn't affect you is all that selfish and definitely doesn't qualify as being a prick. Not even sure why you went there. It's not like I came out and called you a cunt. But whatever man. Like I said I don't play wow right now, and a lot of people don't. And over time if they don't fix things a lot more people won't. I was just offering perspective.

[KayRule]

A seasonal system would be drastically superior to the current "content patch" cycle we have now.

[Alkizon]

I am on the fence on this one.

One of the things I ever like in WoW is that there is a clear finish line, at least as far as raiding goes. With this new seasons idea, with boosted gear and suddenly, potentially all 30+ bosses relevant again - it feels like way too much stuff slapped on same time. Of course it also does not help that there is no actual new content there.

The upside is that it will give something to do once current progression/farm is over, but I would like still to have some sort of "break" before new regrinding rush.

Likely the same, but considering that I not only don't accept, but rather hate their "new system" of gear organization (characteristics, approach to loot tables, scaling, customization, distribution of loot by content, and organization of content itself, which undoubtedly affects everything mentioned above), so my position on fence is very "unstable"/shaky... if we talk about season, as phenomenon parallel to "great patch effect". As for season to "start from scratch", with various bonuses to, for example, "gold"/"reputation"/some cosmetic elements/etc - here my position on fence is absolutely stable.

[Lady Atia]

WoW could definitely use some more deterministic rewards that EVERYONE can work towards. Harder content would equal faster acquisition, but everyone would be able to work towards the same goal.
It worked very well in the past, imo. Badges turned JP/VP let everyone get some top notch gear, but when Badges were still a thing raids rewarded more than dungeons by a fairly large margin. This meant everyone had a shot but if you raided you got to the finish line faster. It also served as bad luck protection for raiders.
Earning currency for gear works fairly well for PvP, as honor and conquest is just the alt version of JP and VP.
I'm not saying every single slot has to have a purchasable option, although I wouldn't be entirely opposed, but I think it would benefit everyone playing.
Crafting has made some strides towards relevance recently as well, with the 262 unique-equipped upgrade item.

All this childish arguing about who's right and who "deserves" what is just silly. Blizzard will react based on numbers, and SL numbers must be slumping based on some of their recent decisions.

The best answer to that would be a battelpass system like hearthstone / diablo immortal has. Give everyone seasonal COSMETIC rewards to work through on any content similiar to renown. You can still have the seasonal rewards for M+/Raids/PvP in place but with this everyone gets an additional unified, themed goal to work through. Would also help with keeping people subbed instead of having them only play for 1-2 months per patch.

[cparle87]

Provide ye olde link. I remember this API stuff being bandied about before but people left out the parts where it tells you what data it does not have and only how many players it looked at. (Hint, wasn't all the players).

He's used that API line on me before. He's the kind of debater who will wave his hand around the room and tell you to go find the evidence yourself to prove him right rather than actually provide any. Kinda like that Congressman who held up a couple ice cubes to try to say climate change isn't real.

[deenman]

I'd rather get a handful of good endgame content activities than get the giant pile of shit WoW raids have become.

the wow raids have been getting better and better with every expansion,im pretty sure your issues arent even with the actual raid itself but other factors outside of it that you feel affect the raiding experience

[TheRevenantHero]

the wow raids have been getting better and better with every expansion,im pretty sure your issues arent even with the actual raid itself but other factors outside of it that you feel affect the raiding experience

lmfao WHAT?! I love how you try to tell me how I actually feel while lying about raids being the best they've ever been.

[deenman]

lmfao WHAT?! I love how you try to tell me how I actually feel while lying about raids being the best they've ever been.

what exactly is your issue with the raiding?

[Kyanion]

He's used that API line on me before. He's the kind of debater who will wave his hand around the room and tell you to go find the evidence yourself to prove him right rather than actually provide any. Kinda like that Congressman who held up a couple ice cubes to try to say climate change isn't real.

Oh I know, I believe I've had him link some websites before that claim to know the sub numbers and when you go to their 'help' section about how they come to these numbers they put up some jargon about 'google results' and other shit that is all basically made up. No one has the sub numbers but Blizz. We can make guesses and speculate but we don't know exacts.

But it is the same thing, they are the type of person that will be there Day 1 for the new expansion and then complain there is nothing to do after 2 weeks of rushing through the content.

[VMSmith]

the wow raids have been getting better and better with every expansion,im pretty sure your issues arent even with the actual raid itself but other factors outside of it that you feel affect the raiding experience

For myself, the raids have severely declined in fun ever since Nighthold. That was the last raid that I truly enjoyed from start to finish.

[deenman]

For myself, the raids have severely declined in fun ever since Nighthold. That was the last raid that I truly enjoyed from start to finish.

Ok but im looking for more specifics if you dont mind

[Relapses]

Yup, sinking ship that has a season 4 patch coming out and is announcing a new expansion in a week. Wow's been dying for what, 16 years man? Totally dead for real this time! FF14 has TOTALLY overtaken it! Oh wait now it is Destiny 2? LOL. Wait, was it New World? Or was it Lost Ark? Wildstar? Damn!!!

One thing I find particularly annoying about FFXIV's recent rise in popularity is the insistence that all WoW players who've quit the game are now simply playing it instead.

[VMSmith]

Ok but im looking for more specifics if you dont mind

Why does there have to be a specific "reason" why someone doesn't enjoy something?

Not many things in life are really so simple as pointing out "Oh, that's the wrong thing" and then changing it, to make everything all better. Humans and our thoughts and emotions are complex and everything we think is interwoven with everything else we think and experience.

If someone says "This thing isn't fun, to me", then take them at their word rather than attempting to dig for a specific item that you can check off as integral to the thing they're talking about.

TheRevenantHero feels like current WoW raids are "shit". They don't have to have a reason why, that's just how they feel. In trying to ascertain a reason why they feel that way you're just hoping for a method to negate their feeling and call it invalid. It doesn't work that way with humans.

[Kyanion]

One thing I find particularly annoying about FFXIV's recent rise in popularity is the insistence that all WoW players who've quit the game are now simply playing it instead.

Or stayed in the genre at all as if they can only play MMOs when they leave WoW. Some players sure, all former WoW players? No.

[shadowmatrix]

Aren't we on season 32, shouldn't this thread have started back in TBC during season 1?

[DeusX]

I do not dislike the "season" concept. In certain aspects, I think it fits well.
New season = new story arch, new raid tier, new M+ ladder with a (sometimes) interesting seasonal affix, new PVP ladder.
People get a catch-up system and they have a viable starting point. We have people in the guild that use this system and make it work (they join 2-3 weeks into a season and, for example, they are ~2800 in M+ right now in S3).

What I do NOT like at all is the seasonal aspect of M+ gear. Having to farm the Vial of Putrefaction or w/e BIS item for the 3rd time is ridiculous.

[FossilFree]

I wish we got actual seasons in WoW. Like snow in the winter, rain in the spring, sun in the summer, and wind + trees changing color in fall.

[cparle87]

Oh I know, I believe I've had him link some websites before that claim to know the sub numbers and when you go to their 'help' section about how they come to these numbers they put up some jargon about 'google results' and other shit that is all basically made up. No one has the sub numbers but Blizz. We can make guesses and speculate but we don't know exacts.

But it is the same thing, they are the type of person that will be there Day 1 for the new expansion and then complain there is nothing to do after 2 weeks of rushing through the content.

Two weeks? How generous. I remember on these forums people coming in on Friday of lauch week saying they hadn't slept since Tuesday, did all the questing and all the mythic zeros and were out of stuff to do "where's the content?"

As for the original topic, yeah. It's funny how these guys try to claim API mining or google results or some other nonsense as being reliable sub numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

One thing I find particularly annoying about FFXIV's recent rise in popularity is the insistence that all WoW players who've quit the game are now simply playing it instead.

Oh god this. Ended up having to put a guy I was debating with on ignore after he kept throwing out logical fallacy after strawman after gaslight trying to prove how everyone is quitting WoW for FF14. I wish I knew the exact name for the logical fallacy where you make a claim that is unprovable by either party in the discussion because neither of them have the relevant info. Argument from ignorance comes closest.

[jeezusisacasual]

I do not dislike the "season" concept. In certain aspects, I think it fits well.
New season = new story arch, new raid tier, new M+ ladder with a (sometimes) interesting seasonal affix, new PVP ladder.
People get a catch-up system and they have a viable starting point. We have people in the guild that use this system and make it work (they join 2-3 weeks into a season and, for example, they are ~2800 in M+ right now in S3).

What I do NOT like at all is the seasonal aspect of M+ gear. Having to farm the Vial of Putrefaction or w/e BIS item for the 3rd time is ridiculous.

When you stop caring about BiS the game becomes fantastic until you reach whatever goal you want assuming its not gear related. I got KSM and since thats my end game i un-subbed and will just check fan sites for new content. I tanked this season for reference.

[Raelbo]

The progression paths you are talking about for casual players are over in days.

This is the false assertion upon which your entire argument is predicated. The progression path available to casuals is pretty much as long as that for the hardcore player. They just start from a lower baseline.

How many times do I need to repeat this to you just so you can turn around and say "lol normal dungeons drop gear"? It's about the progression path being SUBSTANTIVE and LONG TERM. Do you understand? Can you acknowledge that point?

Repeating the same flawed arguments isn't going to help. Maybe bring some valid points to the table and I'll start acknowledging them.

Also, you need to stop confusing gear upgrades and content progression. Sure, the two are related, but they are not the same thing.

Content progression is what the game is about - whether you're a casual player in a friends and family guild making your way through normal mode raids, pushing M+5, doing world quests, pet battles, transmog hunting, battlegrounds etc - or a hardcore raider pushing for world raid, pushing M+30, trying to win Gladiator. In both cases this progression path is substantive and long term.

Gear is both a side effect of these activities, and something that helps you progress in them. But gear, in and of itself, has little meaning outside of the activities you're participating in to acquire it, and which it is helping you complete.

And while I get that maybe for some players, the game revolves purely around gear, that is not how the game is designed, nor have you provided any argument as to why that should change. And no, arguing that it works differently in other games is not such an argument. It's simply a counter-argument to one possible argument against changing the WoW model - an argument no one was even making.