Should they just break addons?

[Alroxas]

what they hsould do is stop caring what world best guilds do.

nerf everythign but 40-60 % and let things go back to how they were in wolk - casual heaven .

who cares if method cleares raid in 3 hours. nobody sane cares about them in first place.

But there's a problem that those kinds of addons can have a "tricke-down" effect on the rest of the playerbase. Case in point would be the Among Us weakaura (the first one) that automatically determined who were the "traitors".

Sure nobody had to use them but once developed (and published) nearly everyone used them until Blizzard broke it.

And it filters to all aspects of WoW gameplay. From PvP to PvE to even AH, addons can provide a certain level of QoL that sometimes can become too advantageous not to use.

[HansOlo]

I feel that the game went way too far with addons again.
It was like that in late WoD too.
I was always playing the game with as little addons as I could, I didn't had to have a boss mod yelling at me every 5 seconds to get out of damaging floor or something. I managed to beat all of MOP raid tiers on mythic (or back then - heroic) without any boss mod installed.
First tier of WOD was manageable as well. But the second tier (on mythic), well... not quite. I had to have an addon for Kormrok (hands), and another one for Iskar (cos passing the ball fast enough with default UI was nearly impossible) and yet another one for Archimonde (lazer beams).

Then in Legion and BFA they again toned down this bullshit a bit, I haven't raided all tiers but most were manageable without DBM or weak auras. Mostly awareness mechanics, you know what's coming and how to deal with it.

But then Shadowlands came and another round of clusterfuck fights that have mechanics which require addons. And any kind of mythic guild i was in was mandating weakauras from players. I mean fuck off, do i have to have so much trash on my UI on every damn fight? I clearly don't, I was fine without that for years.

What's up with blizzard? Did their UI Design team just gave up because everyone just uses ElvUI/RothUI/GennUI? AH took 10 years to fix, prior to BFA patch 8.2 it was unusable without some sort of UI addon such as TSM or auctionator. They're basically telling the players to fix their damn game for them. And the result is having to install a hundred fucking addons and have 15 LUA errors pop up every login. I'm through tolerating this.

New UI = tons of resources and tons of management/support/bug fixes.
Community UI = saved tons of resources and tons of management/support/bug fixes.

What would you pick if you were Bobby?

[Alroxas]

What boss gating was there in SFO?

In reference to RWF, I don't think it was as much boss gating as it was power gains from the tier set to the point where you wanted as many players as possible to have full tier sets going into the race (on as many alt mains) as necessary to overcome the raid encounters.

Honestly, RWF would probably benefit more from being on Tournament servers where everything (gear and consumables) were just handed to all the contenders and it boils down to their skill and coordination to clear the raid as fast as they can.

[HansOlo]

Dunno, I got 2400+ rating in arena and KSM every season since BFA, and I don't use any add-ons at all (except for Rio for m+, but it's not really a gameplay add-on).

I don't think they are mandatory at all (at least for PvP and m+, can't speak from raiding perspective as I don't raid outside of LFR for mogs) I'm sure there are even higher rated players who don't use them either. I think people give them more credit than its due.

How do you track trinkets?

And how can you just "casually" earn 2400+.

[cparle87]

That hardly takes any time, i had a friend that used to work in CS for other games and he said that those things barely take any time at all.

Disregarding that, point still stands: It's a thing in Classic and Blizzard *somehow* is able to deal with it.

It's a thing they don't want to have to deal with, is the point you keep ignoring. That's why they got rid of it.

- - - Updated - - -

In reference to RWF, I don't think it was as much boss gating as it was power gains from the tier set to the point where you wanted as many players as possible to have full tier sets going into the race (on as many alt mains) as necessary to overcome the raid encounters.

Honestly, RWF would probably benefit more from being on Tournament servers where everything (gear and consumables) were just handed to all the contenders and it boils down to their skill and coordination to clear the raid as fast as they can.

Part of the fun of the world first race is that they have the skill to down these very difficult bosses despite being very poorly geared. Typically in the races the guys who get the first kills, despite the kind of crazy farming and splits we know they do, are on average lower in overall ilvl than the normal Joe is when they down heroic.

Though I won't say your tournament realm idea wouldn't be fun too.

[Kralljin]

It's a thing they don't want to have to deal with, is the point you keep ignoring. That's why they got rid of it.

Okay, do you seriously believe a significant amount of people still wrote tickets when Masterloot became limited to guilds in Legion?

[Thalsarion]

Okay, do you seriously believe a significant amount of people still wrote tickets when Masterloot became limited to guilds in Legion?

Yes

10chars

[Kralljin]

Yes

10chars

Then the guild population of WoW must be largely made up by Karens because writing a Ticket because of Loot drama within a guild ranks pretty low on the "reasonable actions" list.

[Thalsarion]

Then the guild population of WoW must be largely made up by Karens because writing a Ticket because of Loot drama within a guild ranks pretty low on the "reasonable actions" list.

Even though it was guild only it was still possible to have it on with pugs. When they removed it they specifically said they dont want other players relying on other on how they got their gear. Also even though you’re in a guild, doesn’t mean people magically start following their own rules.

They also mentioned a lot of people complained about loot dropping that no one could use.

[Kralljin]

Even though it was guild only it was still possible to have it on with pugs.

Which is a very insignificant minority, especially as both Normal and Heroic were flex by the time of Legion.
It's not like in Classic where you need 25 people, if you only have 13 people, you were able to raid with that.

Also even though you’re in a guild, doesn’t mean people magically start following their own rules.

Writing a GM ticket because of loot drama within your guild is like calling the police because your wife / husband hasn't carried out the trash like they promised they would.

That has so little to do with whether a guild follows their own rules but rather audacity to believe a GM would seriously interfere in guild internal matters.

[cparle87]

Which is a very insignificant minority, especially as both Normal and Heroic were flex by the time of Legion.
It's not like in Classic where you need 25 people, if you only have 13 people, you were able to raid with that.

Writing a GM ticket because of loot drama within your guild is like calling the police because your wife / husband hasn't carried out the trash like they promised they would.

That has so little to do with whether a guild follows their own rules but rather audacity to believe a GM would seriously interfere in guild internal matters.

You are so amazingly naive it's almost cute.

[Thalsarion]

Which is a very insignificant minority, especially as both Normal and Heroic were flex by the time of Legion.
It's not like in Classic where you need 25 people, if you only have 13 people, you were able to raid with that.

Writing a GM ticket because of loot drama within your guild is like calling the police because your wife / husband hasn't carried out the trash like they promised they would.

That has so little to do with whether a guild follows their own rules but rather audacity to believe a GM would seriously interfere in guild internal matters.

I mean I don’t disagree with you at all, but I know people who have done this numerous times lol

Also I wouldn’t be so quick to say it’s a significant minority. Everyone in here is already way above and beyond the average understanding of how guilds work, even the lowest common denominators in here. People do this stuff.

[Kralljin]

You are so amazingly naive it's almost cute.

Simply because some people are that stupid, doesn't mean it's suddenly a common issue.

This arguments of "tickets" is just so damn silly, because Blizzard didn't feel the urge to intervene in the first 10 years of this game's existence and back then the game had up to 12M subscribers.
There Blizzard was somehow able to handle all the tickets surrounding Masterloot.

But then during the last ~6 years, it suddenly became an issue that Blizzard had to interfere?
While at the same time they also brought back a version of the game where this very same thing can happen again?
Nevermind that Blizzard also said that they're bringing Masterloot back, so they're going to have to deal with this in future (again).

This explanation has so many holes that it simply doesn't add up.

The simple reason why they removed Masterloot is because they didn't like it, plain and simple, the decision was largely a creative one.

Also I wouldn’t be so quick to say it’s a significant minority.

I am however, i don't believe for one second that in the age and day of flex raiding, guilds have to constantly look for pugs to fill up their raids, because flex raiding literally solves the issue of having to fill slots.

I'd say that even in Classic those are a very much the minority and there you have fixed raidsizes, so inviting some pugs when you can't fill the raids with guildmembers very much makes sense by comparison.

[Nuggsy]

Another thread demanding that everyone be limited to how one person wants to play the game. I would rather World of Warcraft thankfully not become kindergarten that FF14 is when it comes to their overly protective stances on stuff like chat and addons. Addons are perfectly fine and thankfully I don't see Blizzard taking the AWFULstance of FF14 where they ban addons and claim they promote bad gameplay/toxcity or w/e mumbo jumbo bs they can come up with. If you don't want to play the game with addons don't play the game with addons. If you're upset with Blizzard making "Clusterfuck fights" in your words, then maybe suggest to them to not do that instead of taking away addons from majority of the playerbase.

I do not understand people thinking it's okay to ask that the majority constantly have their game changed/give up what they like because a few people don't like X about the game while most others do.

[Noish]

My perfect world?

Blizz makes a WoW 2 and resets everything. From there, design a game around the fact that addons are not needed and thus not allowed. But alas.. tis but a dream.

[melzas]

How do you track trinkets?

And how can you just "casually" earn 2400+.

I wouldn't say "casually", i play arena a lot and I've been pvping since wotlk. Trinkets have 2 min cd so after doing enough arenas you start to feel when they are ready or not, same with tracking other important cooldowns like divine shield or whatever.

I would say some kind of interrupt tracking bar add-on is more helpful, I was using one for a while and it helps with interrupts that don't have a clear animation when they miss like pummel or rebuke.

[Utok]

There is no point removing addons until the encounter+fx teams can do a much better job at making things accessible. Warcraft has been bad for this since wotlk and there is no excuse for it when games like final fantasy are able to make things work right.

This includes things like:
Contrast between the fx and the environment eg transparent red effects on a red floor.
FX animations that are slow to show, eg something that takes 2 seconds to cast and the graphical animation is not visible until 1 second into the cast.
Any abilities that require verbal communication (these should be restricted to mythic raiding only)


It is really bad at the moment with the way the colorblind options make the game worse for people who are colorblind and the "Essential" spell density option which will often hide the essential spells and just keep all the non-essential stuff showing.

There is no way to report these issues either, all the bug reporting is based on how large the quantity of feedback is and accessibility issues just don't effect enough people for anyone to care to fix them

[Biomega]

There is no way to report these issues either, all the bug reporting is based on how large the quantity of feedback is and accessibility issues just don't effect enough people for anyone to care to fix them

There was an in-depth official post about this about a week ago.

It's justified criticism, and it's on their radar. Accessibility is a problem, and while mods help, more should be done from their side, too. But even with inbuilt changes, mods remain one of the best tools we have to increase accessibility, simply because they're so customizable. A good argument for keeping mods around, if you ask me.

[Accendor]

This includes things like:
Contrast between the fx and the environment eg transparent red effects on a red floor.

I know it's not even a raid encounter, but the Frontal AoE cone that blasts you backwards from the Death Speakers in DoS is one of the worst offenders here. Semi translucent purple "smoke" effect in an instance that is literally just lingered with purple backgrounds and 3 different kind of purple FX effects IN THE SAME ENEMY GROUPS.

[thunderdragon2]

i would only agree to braking addon if they integrated them into the game specifically the ui ones after using elvui as m ui for a good number of years now i wouldnt be able to play with the standard ui anymore