Page 5 of 18 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
15
... LastLast
  1. #81
    Say goodbye to most of their players if they decided to "just break addons" out of the blue.
    If I don't respond to something you tagged me in, assume one of two things.
    1) Your post was too stupid to acknowledge, or
    2) Your post is cringe and not worth replying to.

    Alternatively, if it happens a lot I probably have you blocked due to one of the above things. Thank you.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinte View Post
    You will not clear mythic without addons and weakauras. You're very much full of shit. The encounters are designed around DBM , for fucks sakes. Its not a choice to use them.
    Could you give an example of a mechanic or an entire fight, that a group using voice coms would not be able to complete, without the usage of an addon. Since I think it is implied you're using voice coms if you are raiding mythics. Although that's more of listening to dad raid progression not listen to the computer commands and respond which is what this threads about.

  3. #83
    data mining, weak auras imo scripts and addons have gone to far. they are beyond the DBM, that was used in 2008. yes thing advance, but again imo too far,

    blizzard designing raids assuming players are using these detection, positioning, marker placing, even a banned in PVP borderline PVE kickbot variation

    the spill over into PVP also is rampant, will have to see what blizzard does in 10.0. and hope they deal with it, this can not be addressed in SL

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    They literally designed the game to be inclusive of add-ons from the very beginning...yes, beta (if not alpha) of Vanilla.

    Furthermore, many of the enhancements to the game came from Blizz essentially stealing earlier add-ons and integrating them into the game.

    No one is forcing you to use add-ons, but Blizz understands that part of the remaining popularity of the game is due to add-on availability. They aren't going to break them since they are already being incredibly lazy by providing minimal content each expansion now...they sure as heck aren't going to put in the effort to drastically improve their base UI now.
    Just as a personal anecdote I tried SWTOR for a few months at the tail end of MoP and it was very jarring. Not only did they not allow any addons, but they didn't even have a macro system to do things like binding a use trinket to a rotational ability.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  5. #85
    Break DBM, Big wigs & Weak aura, and any thing that do similar stuffZ

    Every thing else is fine.

    Awsome signature and avatar made by Kuragalolz

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Neuroticaine View Post
    There are so many things that the game's default UI just does so terribly, that militantly desiring to play without addons is akin to intentionally shooting yourself in the foot.
    Yes. But that's a failure on Blizzard's end. They've outsourced their UI to volunteers. They've sacrificed balance and a cohesive experience for having people working for free development that's potentially worth billions of dollars in development hours.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Break DBM, Big wigs & Weak aura, and any thing that do similar stuffZ

    Every thing else is fine.
    ... How? The only way to break them is to take away addons ability to react to combat events.. Which would destroy 99% of other addons too.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalam the Venom View Post
    Break DBM, Big wigs & Weak aura, and any thing that do similar stuffZ

    Every thing else is fine.
    If they broke WA I'd stop playing the game. Not because I'd be against them removing boss-trivializing auras, but because it's the only way I've found to get a solid UI that tells me all I need to know about my class without having to look at several areas of the screen at once/or use several different addons to neatly organize abilities, buffs, etc.

    I'd actually be down for them neutering addon power & lowering the difficulty of the raid lowered in return.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Athorha View Post
    Could you give an example of a mechanic or an entire fight, that a group using voice coms would not be able to complete, without the usage of an addon. Since I think it is implied you're using voice coms if you are raiding mythics. Although that's more of listening to dad raid progression not listen to the computer commands and respond which is what this threads about.
    Castle nathria kaelthas fight with the shield break. No proper visual queue or it camouflages to background colors. No prior warning. Only a timer that starts from the beginning of the fight.

    Without a addon that tells you whats going to happen for the next 30s its borderline idiotic

  10. #90
    I wouldn't be surprised if some of the functionality of WA gets broken at some point. Start out as a track your CDs and procs type of product and now has become, in the right hands, something that can tell you to move left 2 steps, give you a count down to an ability, tell you exactly what to do with the ability, and then put you back where you need to be for the next ability.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Castle nathria kaelthas fight with the shield break. No proper visual queue or it camouflages to background colors. No prior warning. Only a timer that starts from the beginning of the fight.

    Without a addon that tells you whats going to happen for the next 30s its borderline idiotic
    But he does a yell! /s

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    That isnt the game giving you information, nobody is ever going to count 2 minutes in their head to remember when the bosses ability is up, there could be a visual indicator on the bosses model for example like they slowly start glowing orange as an extreme one.
    Again, i will also point out that timers have existed since (almost) forever.

    The problem here aren't timers itself, it's the multitude of timers you have to keep track off.

    Blizzard has already used something like the energy bar to visually track whenever a boss is going to use an ability, but when the boss has 3-4 different abilities on different timers, then you can't track all of them.

    Even with your suggestion to give it a more visual cue, it just creates a visual clusterfuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Also if i dont know im standing in bad shit when my character is in the middle of the screen right in front of me then there is clearly something else wrong there.
    It's very easily said, but when your attention is on multiple timers, your rotation and cooldowns, something obvious like this can get drowned out very easily.

    It's like when you say "How could this car driver not seen this person walking over the street?"
    Well, possibly because that cardriver was distracted, that's how.
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Perhaps a 'wounded' noise could play in game that replaces the DBM noise, like most games that give audio cues when you are taking damage.
    I think that could grow very obnoxious because taking damage is very natural, especially if it happens at a volume where you are supposed to notice it.
    DBM and Bossmods effectively discerns between "Okay, this is damage you can't avoid, don't play a sound" and "This damage is avoidable, play an audio cue".

    Disregarding that this wouldn't remove any information the player has to keep track off, it would just bake an addon function into the base game.
    The sensory overload would still be the same.

  13. #93
    Herald of the Titans czarek's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    zug zug
    Posts
    2,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinte View Post
    You will not clear mythic without addons and weakauras. You're very much full of shit. The encounters are designed around DBM , for fucks sakes. Its not a choice to use them.
    ? I have done KSM with just DBM as combat addon...

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    Castle nathria kaelthas fight with the shield break. No proper visual queue or it camouflages to background colors. No prior warning. Only a timer that starts from the beginning of the fight.

    Without a addon that tells you whats going to happen for the next 30s its borderline idiotic
    The fundamental problem is that back in WotLK times, Blizz said they were starting to design raid encounters around the existence of addons. I'd rank that up there with one of the worst decisions they ever made in retrospect.

    The reason a lot of encounters feel like you need a boss addon or WA's to do them properly is because Blizz makes the assumption you will have addons to tell you when they design encounters and mechanics. In order to facilitate the removal of addon requirements for raid fights, they not only would need to disable their functionality but also fundamentally change how they create and balance raid/dungeon encounters as well as class design.

    Honestly, Blizz has been riding on the coattails of addon developers for a long time to make their lives easier. While there have been some improvements over the years, there are still very flawed aspects to the game (whether it's encounters, mechanics, UI, etc.) that never get fixed because someone will make an addon to do it. How often has someone in your raid (or even oneself in some cases) ever said "well, let's wait til the WA's from the top-end guilds trickle down" or "hopefully DBM/bigwigs will update and help with this soon"... that should be a HUGE warning flag that the encounter design and tuning is way overblown if it's not feasible without the use of addons.

    Unfortunately, this is just one aspect of many that Blizz should focus on fixing, but I have little faith in their ability to see the bigger picture (especially after this RWF and it's impact on raiding).
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by czarek View Post
    ? I have done KSM with just DBM as combat addon...
    Let's be honest you can do ksm blindfolded if the tank has over 80 iq and it's not your first time running the dungeon.

  16. #96
    Addons have been a thing since vanilla, in fact you couldn't even raid properly in the beginning without them. Many addons got "included" later on, like raidframes...or soon the addon clique which also has been around. Also the game evolved around people using addons, raiding is designed with keeping in mind people have things like dbm, bw and weak auras. Thats also one reason why WOW was a huge success and taking it away almost 2 decades later makes absolutely no sense.
    I'd prefer this kind of endgame to FF anytime for example...those raids felt more like a dancing simulator most of the time which bored me to death even though some ultimate raids were a challenge.

    But still, saying at this point "wow has to get rid of addons" would be like saying "remove jumping from mario bros".

  17. #97
    Yes, all addons should be removed.
    1) Load the amount of weight I would deadlift onto the bench
    2) Unrack
    3) Crank out 15 reps
    4) Be ashamed of constantly skipping leg day

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by czarek View Post
    ? I have done KSM with just DBM as combat addon...
    He wasn't talking about mythic+

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Easyclassictopkeklel View Post
    Addons have been a thing since vanilla, in fact you couldn't even raid properly in the beginning without them. Many addons got "included" later on, like raidframes...or soon the addon clique which also has been around. Also the game evolved around people using addons, raiding is designed with keeping in mind people have things like dbm, bw and weak auras. Thats also one reason why WOW was a huge success and taking it away almost 2 decades later makes absolutely no sense.
    I'd prefer this kind of endgame to FF anytime for example...those raids felt more like a dancing simulator most of the time which bored me to death even though some ultimate raids were a challenge.

    But still, saying at this point "wow has to get rid of addons" would be like saying "remove jumping from mario bros".
    It makes sense in conjunction with adjusting encounter design, difficulty, and how mechanics work. The fundamental problem with raids being designed around addons existing (or any content for that matter) is that it punishes you for not having addons along with making encounter/mechanic design way too extreme.

    Back in the earlier days of WoW, a lot of the addons were introduced because the UI was still pretty bad... but you certainly didn't need to addons to clear the hardest difficulty content in the game because the mechanics didn't require it. If Blizz had disabled boss addons, it wouldn't have adversely affected the ability of players to clear the content. Fast forward to today, if you disabled boss addons and WA's, the RWF would likely be going on for several more weeks if Blizz didn't nerf everything into the ground.

    Blizz has come out in the past to talk about the effect of bossmods and addons like WA's had on their encounter design, and they admitted that's the reason why mechanics have shifted into the extreme. The existence of "one person messes up one time, it's a wipe" mechanics is directly related to the allowance of said addons in a raiding environment. Heck, I'd surmise that most, if not all, of the raid mechanics that people have loathed in recent history were designed that way because the existence of addons in a raiding environment forced them towards that design.

    If Blizz did disable the use of bossmod addons in a raid environment, the raids would have to change, but that doesn't mean they'd turn into FF raids. Raids would be way less extreme, and they would probably be a helluva lot more accessible to the average player. This would also force Blizz to make more intelligent design decisions that would help alleviate some of the most annoying and vague aspects/mechanics of encounters. To be fair, Blizz has made strides in this direction in recent history, such as the addition of a lot of audio queues from bosses letting you know when something is coming up and making the edges of some AoE effects more defined (usually player effects, boss ones tend to still need hotfixed). With such changes, WoW raids would still have the same feel overall but would probably be much more forgiving... and that's a good thing considering the direction of raids in WoW.

    Ultimately, designing your game so you need 3rd party addons to play it and properly do the content is asinine.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  20. #100
    In my opinion, absolutely yes on breaking/removing combat enhancing addons. Blizzard is in an arms race with addons, specifically DBM/bigwigs and weakauras, building their fights to be difficult based on people having those, rather than making them difficult in general. This means that the more extreme they get with it, the more addons basically become a requirement to get anything done. Hell, they already are. I can't think of many guilds that will tell you "It's ok to not have addons if you don't want to." Or well, I couldn't, when I still played. During Nathria and Sanctum of Domination.

    Of course, if they did this, they'd also have to simultaneously alter recent and new content to account for the lack of these addons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't really think this is how a game should be played
    http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/60e...experience.php

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •