Alarmingly Low Voter Turnout for Shadowlands Season 4 Mythic+ Community Poll

[FuxieDK]

As of writing this, there are three days remaining and the total voter count sits at just 15,878.

Do you believe people are merely unaware of the poll, or is this a sneak peak into just how small the playerbase size is now?

Poll in question: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ngeons/1205558

Blizzard is only active on US forums, but EU plyers are much more abundant that US.

Also, are people still doung dungeons?

[Makorus]

I just imagined this with quaking, volcanic, or especially sanguine. /shudder

Grimrail is my favourite dungeon in the game but I didn't vote for it because it would have been a shitty M+ dungeon.

[RobertMugabe]

hmm, i assume just not many ppl care any longer tbh. wow sucks since a good while and SL killed many customers. ppls just move on. so tbh, this is not that surprising imo. i play wow since 16 years without interruption and even i give a fuck these days. i just no longer care and it not much interessts me tbh. ppls move on and i do too. nothing special.

the reason i post in this forum just means i am still not out the door. i play some m+ 20s here and then. but that also doesnt mean, that i am still heavily interessted in all that shit Blizz produces since years. and seriously, what rehashed dungeon they add to m+…. i couldn’t care less.

Considering you do m+20s at all shows that you are invested quite a lot in WoW

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, actually. SBG is a more interesting dungeon by far, and without the janky camera to boot.



This kind of thing does not translate to M+ once affixes get involved. Even single packs are going to be a pain with far too many affixes in such a cramped space; no space to move, and no space to kite.

Time to get rid of affixes tbh, except for the seasonal ones. In priniciple they sound like a fun idea, but I have never enjoyed them.

[Infernoxas]

As of writing this, there are three days remaining and the total voter count sits at just 15,878.

Do you believe people are merely unaware of the poll, or is this a sneak peak into just how small the playerbase size is now?

Poll in question: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ngeons/1205558

I'm thinking it's a mix of people not knowing due to lack of advertisement and people straight up not caring because it's not their preferred content.

[Thenatural]

Regarding

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...1&metric=score

it is around 17,164 characters (not players, those are probably even less) per day playing mythic+ dungeons at maximum.

Regarding

https://mmo-population.com/r/wow

WoW currently has 1,119,177 daily players.

which means, less than or around 1.5% of the players play mythic+ dungeons at a single day. It becomes a bit better, if you compare weekly figures, while there is no weekly concurrent player count available to compare to.

And if you wonder how many players play current normal raids per week, here is your surprise:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/st...e&difficulty=3

3,704 chars killed normal jailer. Based on the 1,1m players in average per day it is 0.33% if every char was 1 player and even less if you assume the weekly concurrent player count is higher.

And lets not even talk about mythic raids. I wonder it is still an own difficulty considering the few hundred that play it.

First of all, that population website is hardly reliable, but you know that.

Secondly, over 10,000 unique guilds have killed heroic Sylvanas, whereas only ~5,000 have killed the equivalent FFIXV encounter which is currently Savage Asphodelos. The latter is definitely more recent, but the barrier to entry for that encounter is, even now, much lower than Heroic Slv. All of this while a decent percentage of WoW content creators are lauding FF as the most alivest and bestest MMO on the planet right now.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...lty=4&page=220

In fact, if you really start to parse the FFXIVLogs data against the Ironforge.pro data for TBCC, you can make an argument that TBCC on it's own has a raiding population that is just as healthy as FFXIV currently. The breakdown of class parses on FFXIV logs shows that the total number of parses isn't all that much higher than the TBCC numbers.

My point here is, WoW isn't dead, FFXIV isn't dead, and if you're going out of your way to find out ways of saying they are, to the point of cherry picking unreliable data, you should honestly consider just stepping away. I know it must feel like you're vindicated when you don't feel the same way about WoW as you once did and can farm "hate the thing" attention in cesspools like this, but it's not healthy.

[Mendzia]

They should implement those types of votes ingame honestly.
You do hundreds of M+? - Poll about new (old?) ones will show for you.
You focus on RP? - Poll about new events will pop up.
You are high rated PvPer? - You decide about things in new season.
You are active TBC player? - Poll about WotLK shows for you.

[Thenatural]

They should implement those types of votes ingame honestly.

I don't understand why they don't do this. At least add a popup on the login screen or something.

I have to assume they want more focused and curated responses, but the official forums are hardly a place where people have the health of the game in mind.

[Lolites]

I'm thinking it's a mix of people not knowing due to lack of advertisement and people straight up not caring because it's not their preferred content.

i would also add a lot of people will ignore it just bcs its about WOD

[pinkz]

many have been weened off wow forums over the years. plus the player base is imo, seriously low

- blizzard has exercised censorship and diversion over the years
-- censorship thru locking or flatout deleting threads by flagging them as unproductive, refering threads to other threads that eventually vanish
-- diversion which started heavy in WOD with so called twitter integration and DEVs going to facebook, which are unresponsive or heavily also regulated thru blocking, censorship, etc.

if you remember in WOD, it caused mess among blizzard in miscommunication and not knowing what the other was saying on wow forums, twitter, facebook, etc.
- Bashiok said flying was coming after the first patch and would be like previous expacs
- devs then claimed the first patch wasn't a patch
- Ion said later on what supposed to be an actual patch, there would be no flying in WOD and future expacs. later we discovered WOD was set up flying
- depending on where some devs posted WOD was a one patch expac others said two

blizzard allows shills using low level players to derail the threads and set them up to be locked, deleted, and challenging the shills can get you banned

not much has changed.

[CaptainV]

Mythic+ and in general Mythic have become less popular over the years, and that shouldnt really be surpising.

People dont really care about hard content anymore, if you think they do, the active player numbers (not subs) will tell you why they dont.

Right now WoW is hovering at about 400K players in retail, and about the same for classic and classic TBC making the total about 1.2 million people that still play wow.

This is Active Players btw not subs, subs might be closer to 3.5 million but not everyone is playing atm.

This however does tell you, strongly even that only a fraction of the origional 12.5 million people that played wow at its peak actually care about this kind of content, which ironically would be about 10% of the total playerbase.

Frankly? I think this is a wakeup call to stop making hardcores the focus group of content.

If I was blizzard at this point, id just basically stop making Mythic as a difficulty curve, peak the difficulty at Heroic but make it a tad more challenging, remove LFR and make normal more accessable.

And for end game dungeons, make it Heroic+ instead of Mythic+

[Kumorii]

https://playercounter.com/world-of-warcraft/

Did some googling and that site is probably a sham...

https://www.reddit.com/r/programming...of_the_gohost/

if you are on the page and refresh you get a new number.

Lets check dota 2:


Refresh:


that's just a few seconds in between.

then we check steams charts. Who actually have the API to do this.


Where did they get 800k players from?

Then we have the "Learn more" page which doesn't teach you anything. Except the PC developers being cocky on how good they are (we have this amazing stat tracking program and we are just half-assed coders) and daring people to do "better than them". They don't explain how it works except "we developed this gohost network protocol". They sound like snake oil salesmen.

https://playercounter.com/about/

This site screams red flags mate. Where they get the min / max numbers from no one knows...but them randomizing the numbers isn't exactly screaming professionalism...even if you do estimates.

I would guess when they estimates steam players they actually grab the current players and peak players and deduct/add to min/max values and randomize between them. Keep track of that and you can give the illusion of having "accurate real time numbers".
How they do with non-steam games I don't really have a guess.

[Gehco]

Mythic+ and in general Mythic have become less popular over the years, and that shouldnt really be surpising.

People dont really care about hard content anymore, if you think they do, the active player numbers (not subs) will tell you why they dont.

Right now WoW is hovering at about 400K players in retail, and about the same for classic and classic TBC making the total about 1.2 million people that still play wow.

This is Active Players btw not subs, subs might be closer to 3.5 million but not everyone is playing atm.

This however does tell you, strongly even that only a fraction of the origional 12.5 million people that played wow at its peak actually care about this kind of content, which ironically would be about 10% of the total playerbase.

Frankly? I think this is a wakeup call to stop making hardcores the focus group of content.

If I was blizzard at this point, id just basically stop making Mythic as a difficulty curve, peak the difficulty at Heroic but make it a tad more challenging, remove LFR and make normal more accessable.

And for end game dungeons, make it Heroic+ instead of Mythic+

They've needed this wake-up call for a long time. In the end, their end-game and main aim has been the minor groups of raiding, rated PvP and M+, the game needs to expand, the instanced content need to evolve on their own path while the world takes the lead instead.

[cparle87]

Grimrail is my favourite dungeon in the game but I didn't vote for it because it would have been a shitty M+ dungeon.

Same here. It's like when they brought MC back for the 10th anniversary and it sucked so bad in part because the raid was designed with no-cooldown dispels in mind. Taking 40+ seconds to dispel the raid from things designed to be dispelled within 10 seconds was so bad.

[Puri]

Personally I simply wasn't aware the poll is already up, also no one from my guild was. Who browses official forums?
So I'd say lack of advertising might be the major issue here.

[cantrip]

First of all, that population website is hardly reliable, but you know that.

Have you got a better source for the current population? And prove that it is not reliable, please.

Secondly, over 10,000 unique guilds have killed heroic Sylvanas, whereas only ~5,000 have killed the equivalent FFIXV encounter which is currently Savage Asphodelos. The latter is definitely more recent, but the barrier to entry for that encounter is, even now, much lower than Heroic Slv. All of this while a decent percentage of WoW content creators are lauding FF as the most alivest and bestest MMO on the planet right now.

Currently, Lost Ark is way more alive than FFXIV. But let me just quote the last part of your rant:

In fact, if you really start to parse the FFXIVLogs data against the Ironforge.pro data for TBCC, you can make an argument that TBCC on it's own has a raiding population that is just as healthy as FFXIV currently.

I nowhere talked about FFXIV. Stop moving the goalpost. Also, i nowhere talked about the burning crusade, which has only 320k active chars.

https://ironforge.pro/population/tbc/

Black Temple player statistics of one week:

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...lty=3&sample=7

max raiders: 80,000
players: 320,000

quota: 25% (of the active players, see the word "minority")

considering, that only the raiders are left on the tbc classic realms, this is a pretty low quota. Considering retail has currently 1m players every day, and tbc only has 320k players left, you cannot even compare that. TBC did not prevail for long. Most players left already. Retail is still, by far, the most successfull implementation of WoW, while it does not adress as many raiders currently.

The breakdown of class parses on FFXIV logs shows that the total number of parses isn't all that much higher than the TBCC numbers.

This thread is about WoW, not FFXIV. But just go on with your rant:

My point here is, WoW isn't dead, FFXIV isn't dead, and if you're going out of your way to find out ways of saying they are, to the point of cherry picking unreliable data, you should honestly consider just stepping away.

I never said they are dead. I say that raiding is for a niche audience only, and especially in retail. Even Sylvanas was only killed by a small minority, at the end of the patch.. 10,000 guilds is nothing compared to where we once were with guild counts. And you cumulate actually every single guild that killed them and do not give a weekly number insight, which would show that players, even raiders, left the game fast after they achieved their goal. Which simply means the developers do not even keep raiders playing the game for longer than they actually have to to reach their final raid encounter, which is simply all i talk about.

The gameplay outside of raids and probably mythic+ is that mind numbing bad all those players that do not raid left within the first quarter after expacs release, while the raiders stayed until their main raiding encounter was defeated. And then they left as well, because nothing else in WoW is worth playing anymore.

I know it must feel like you're vindicated when you don't feel the same way about WoW as you once did and can farm "hate the thing" attention in cesspools like this, but it's not healthy.

I do not give a shit about any kind of attention. All i bring up are valid numbers, which you take out of context with posting tbc raid participation statistics, which are naturally larger in percentages, as most players on classic realms actually are former private server players which know the raids since years. You are actually comparing apples with oranges, take numbers out of context and expect anyone to take you seriously?

Sorry, but no.

[Swnem]

First of all, that population website is hardly reliable, but you know that.

Secondly, over 10,000 unique guilds have killed heroic Sylvanas, whereas only ~5,000 have killed the equivalent FFIXV encounter which is currently Savage Asphodelos. The latter is definitely more recent, but the barrier to entry for that encounter is, even now, much lower than Heroic Slv. All of this while a decent percentage of WoW content creators are lauding FF as the most alivest and bestest MMO on the planet right now.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...lty=4&page=220

In fact, if you really start to parse the FFXIVLogs data against the Ironforge.pro data for TBCC, you can make an argument that TBCC on it's own has a raiding population that is just as healthy as FFXIV currently. The breakdown of class parses on FFXIV logs shows that the total number of parses isn't all that much higher than the TBCC numbers.

My point here is, WoW isn't dead, FFXIV isn't dead, and if you're going out of your way to find out ways of saying they are, to the point of cherry picking unreliable data, you should honestly consider just stepping away. I know it must feel like you're vindicated when you don't feel the same way about WoW as you once did and can farm "hate the thing" attention in cesspools like this, but it's not healthy.

Erm... why are you comparing guild numbers? I see you don't play FF. It's not organized like WoW. Guilds, FC's in FF are generally not for raiding, they are for socialising. Raiding is done in groups called "statics" usually not in the same FC.
Comparing guild clears is completely useless.

[exochaft]

Grimrail is my favourite dungeon in the game but I didn't vote for it because it would have been a shitty M+ dungeon.

Yeah, I really enjoyed that dungeon because it was pretty unique. I'd rather them bring it back as a CM than a M+... or maybe just bring back CM's as an alternative end-game activity to M+. I'm certain there's people who would rather try to beat the base vanilla dungeon in as good of a time as possible versus throwing in all the affixes while trying to get the best time. Different strokes for different folks.

If they did bring back Grimrail as a M+, I can only imagine the hell it would be with affixes when they work correctly. Imagine how buggy they probably would be considering the design and structure of the dungeon itself. While it's not as much of an issue with other dungeons, I can already see many mechanics across multiple WoD dungeons that would not work well in a M+ setting, as the infinite scaling could cause some issues along with the design/layout/structure of the dungeons. However, this gets into the concept of Blizz designing dungeons around M+, which is absolutely the case with current dungeons. As a comparison, you don't need to make nearly as many (if any) design considerations for a dungeon to implement it as a CM, while M+ considerations is way more intrusive when it comes to said considerations.

[Paulosio]

I was aware of the poll and I was going to vote even though i'm not currently playing the game. However the link took me to the US version of the website which i'm unable to vote through so that was that.

[owbu]

I wonder why Blizzard never changed their communication to a discord server. Forums just seem so 2010.

[cantrip]

I wonder why Blizzard never changed their communication to a discord server. Forums just seem so 2010.

Probably because it would be way too many for a single discord server.