Would you want time limited items to return if the content became relative again?

[exochaft]

I'm kinda hoping with mage tower coming back that they will do something for MoP/WoD CMs as well.

This is what I found odd about Blizz wanting to turn WoD dungeons into M+ dungeons: it'd be way easier to convert almost any dungeons into a CM dungeon, but converting them into a M+ dungeon is way more work. I'd rather Blizz just bring back CM's as end-game content again. You could easily convert every M+ era dungeon into a CM dungeon, and you could appease all those people that just don't like the hassle of M+ affixes. Heck, you could go back before MoP and convert dungeons to CM's relatively easily.

Personally, I don't mind limited time stuff, however I was never one to get caught into the FOMO hype... so if I missed something, I didn't feel bad about it. I'd rather new rewards come out that are on par with the old stuff every so often to give people new incentives instead of clinging to old things. Nothing wrong with rewarding your loyal players with unique stuff, as long as you aren't exploiting it for player retention reasons. May be a fine line, but as an example: having the CM rewards for an expansion being available for two years doesn't qualify as FOMO in my mind at all, making it perfectly reasonable to keep them limited to the expansion. Having CM rewards only be available for really short periods of time (like how the Mage Tower was basically only going to be available 2-3 times a year for time walking until the recent change) is definitely in the FOMO territory.

All in all, it's a balance. If you make certain rewards limited by means that employ obvious FOMO tactics, that's bad. However, if you make no reward feel special and unique, that's also bad. You have to find a balance to avoid FOMO and apathy when it comes to your rewards.

If you want my opinion about what the real problem is... it's that Blizz hasn't been releasing interesting cosmetics outside of the in-game shop, as well as flooding the game with mounts/pets to where everything just becomes another number to your total. We've gone from "You have an epic mount? that's so cool!" to "...and that's mount 534, just need 66 more for 600!" I think there'd be less conversation about the FOMO aspects of rewards if there were actually more unique rewards for doing interesting things versus the current system of flooding the game non-special stuff.

One of the major reasons why people seem to crave stuff they missed in expansions past is because Blizz hasn't been putting out anything of that caliber into the game since. Heck, I think the WoD xmog for CMs was generally terrible for many people's taste, to the point where I couldn't get my guildies to even finish the gold CMs in WoD because everyone thought the xmog was ugly... guess Blizz should've put the mount at the Gold instead of Silver. Regardless, you cannot placate everyone, but I feel the best solution is to bring back the content with new rewards at least on par with the old rewards.

[Twdft]

All in all, it's a balance. If you make certain rewards limited by means that employ obvious FOMO tactics, that's bad. However, if you make no reward feel special and unique, that's also bad. You have to find a balance to avoid FOMO and apathy when it comes to your rewards.

It isn't even FOMO alone. WoW is 17 years old, that's a long time and life happens for everyone. So a pvp player who easily got his elite set all the time has a kid and misses one expansion.

Doesn't matter if it was hard or easy to get the rewards, time limited rewards (other than titles) where you had to play at a certain time to get them are wrong.

[Caprias]

As someone with all cm sets and magetower stuff.

yeah.

Don't be such a wuss, it's just pixels and might open up some more content for players, WoW could be the greatest collectible/completionist game of all time.

[Dakhath]

Limited stuff should stay limited. I don't have all of it, but that was my choice. They should just make new limited stuff instead of rehashing old ones. Stuff like the legion class hall sets being k-mart versions of the CM sets is fine though as you can tell they were inspired by them, but lesser versions.

[kaminaris]

Limited stuff should stay limited. I don't have all of it, but that was my choice. They should just make new limited stuff instead of rehashing old ones. Stuff like the legion class hall sets being k-mart versions of the CM sets is fine though as you can tell they were inspired by them, but lesser versions.

Yeah so is the the choice of potential new players to not become wow players since its their fault for not playing wow when they were fucking 10y old

Then you come complain people are leaving, queues are 1h long and nobody new wants to join a guild. I guess if someone wants to wow to die faster then yeah - limited stuff should stay limited.

[Dakhath]

Yeah so is the the choice of potential new players to not become wow players since its their fault for not playing wow when they were fucking 10y old

Then you come complain people are leaving, queues are 1h long and nobody new wants to join a guild. I guess if someone wants to wow to die faster then yeah - limited stuff should stay limited.

I'm sure these new players are going to quit the game because .01 of mounts aren't available to them.

[kaminaris]

I'm sure these new players are going to quit the game because .01 of mounts aren't available to them.

They aren't even coming to play because the insane amount of content they missed that was cut, made irrelevant or straight up impossible to get. Tons of cool mounts, entire questlines, transmogs. You must be delusional thinking its .01

[Dakhath]

They aren't even coming to play because the insane amount of content they missed that was cut, made irrelevant or straight up impossible to get. Tons of cool mounts, entire questlines, transmogs. You must be delusional thinking its .01

And you must be delusional thinking that with literal thousands of options to go after, it's really going to prevent new players from playing the game if they want to. A new player doesn't give a shit about a mount that was removed 10 years ago because they don't know about it and the fact that they have hundreds upon hundreds of mounts to work toward if that's what they spend time doing.

[PsychoSe7eN]

No, not in any case. Exclusivity is good, not everyone needs to have everything.

Thats just elitist, entitlement mentality, severely toxic, and poor excuse as a marketing strategy. Nothing more. Nothing should be time limited. If you do the work and earn it, then that should be more than enough.

[Celement]

I think it's weird how heroic mounts were removed from the game but mythic ones stayed in with a reduced drop rate.

[Accendor]

Exclusively in the context of a difficult challenge yes, in terms of having something available for a limited time is beyond asinine and should never exist

Do you really feel that special bc you logged in that one time in 2008? Who cares

Thats wrong however and does not fit the question asked.
Its not about "feeling special for logging in once in 2008", it's about "feeling special for beating a challenge in 200 the way it was originally intended."

Those are 2 completely different things.

Also ignoring that, yes, even a "I was there!" reward is cool and should be exclusive. That also accounts for all the cool things I never got and want to have.
If I could just go and get them today, they would be nothing special.

[Unlimited Power]

I'm conflicted. I generally think rewards being time-sensitive is a motivator for me to acquire them.

I would never have done 36/36 MT challenges in Legion if I didn't know the rewards were going to get removed.

Same applies to seasonal PvE mounts like Keystone Master and Ahead of the Curve mounts from the final raid of the expansion.

What it'll never motivate me to acquire is things like Gladiator or even Elite PvP transmog.

My reflexes are quickly fading, and I don't care to spend hours daily queueing arena, which I find to be stressful and not particularly enjoyable in the first place.

And if there's one thing I find to be a shame in this game, it's the multitudes of fantastic transmog that'll never again be available to players.

Which is also why I'm generally not in favor of Blizzard removing things from the game. But if things have been removed already, I'm also not really in favor of bringing them back.

[Accendor]

Thats just elitist, entitlement mentality, severely toxic, and poor excuse as a marketing strategy. Nothing more. Nothing should be time limited. If you do the work and earn it, then that should be more than enough.

Thats simply not how mmos, especially WoW works.
A challenge can not be preserved to be exactly as challenging as it was to a specific point in time due to how the game evolves.
As I said before, I also need to point out, that there are a ton of cool items out there I wish I had but did not get when they were current and available. Still I would never want them to return.

[kaminaris]

And you must be delusional thinking that with literal thousands of options to go after, it's really going to prevent new players from playing the game if they want to. A new player doesn't give a shit about a mount that was removed 10 years ago because they don't know about it and the fact that they have hundreds upon hundreds of mounts to work toward if that's what they spend time doing.

Of course it's preventing new players from playing, "is it too late to party?" is not a meme question.

Quantity =/= Quality. For some really cool mounts you either gotta shell some big money (TCG/BMAH) or bet on 1% luck. Nobody really cares for recolors.

Then you have entire raids, questlines, transmogs etc. All unobtainable anymore.

"come join out game, good stuff is not available but you can get tons of crappy ones!"

[shise]

Exclusivity is not good, who lied to you? The more obtainable goals you can give a player the better. You don't want to have things that tell the player ''fk you, should have logged in on x date" instead of leaving content in the game for somebody to chase after at later dates.

Is not like that.

You have things like Frosty (among many other). Unique, no longer obtainable items, based on an event.

We need more of this.

[Accendor]

They aren't special and never were though. They are meaningless pixels in some random video game at the end of the day, regardless of how difficult or "special" one feels for having it.

Then why make such a big fuss about it? They are n/a anymore and that should be no problem for anyone, because they don't matter anyhow.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course a challenge can be preserved it's 2022 guy scaling technology exists. See the mage tower for an easy example

FOMO is shit and has always been shit why would you advocate for taking content out of the game

The mage tower is NOT the same challenge as when it was current content and the way it currently plays for many classes is vastly different than it originally was.
Which is probably a big part of the reason the original appearances did not return and that is a good thing.

[Tojara]

Some stuff being exclusive is fine, and I'd argue certain titles or something like gladiator mounts are about the only things that should remain 'exclusive'. In my eyes it's hard to capture the essence of a PvP season and have the rewards obtainable afterwards, as the meta and balance was at a very particular moment in time.

When talking about features in the game I don't really agree at all. Not in everyway, but other games have crafted particular aspects of timewalking better than WoW has to make older content feel a bit more relevant, and there's no reason that Blizzard can't do the same. Everything is so locked down in iLvL scaling in WoW (and has been for well over a decade) that there's no reason things like MoP or WoD challenge modes need to disappear. It's actually perplexing to me that a feature as big as those simply don't exist anymore and would certainly cater to both casual and hardcore audiences alike. Whether they need to have the exact same rewards is up to debate, but at the very least they should offer something pretty similar if not exactly the same.

To me it's just a waste of resources to add something big only to simply remove it. There's nothing wrong with challenges in the game and this is especially true if they aren't going anywhere. I'm also annoyed at how Blizzard approaches raid mounts in any individual expansion too. I think the option to go back and farm 1% chance mounts is fine but an option where you could limit iLvL and power through the interface for a chance at said mount with a 100% chance should also be an option.

I've done pretty much everything that I've detailed in my post but I see no reason to gatekeep rewards with the allure of them being limited time only. The game needs more challenges that are always relevant, and when you have them available literally all of the time I think complaining about the difficulty actually falls upon deaf ears. The mage tower returning but only being available every ~5 months was actually really stupid, thankfully they changed that.

A really big hint to those that want exclusive rewards, most people really don't care. I generally play the game for the experience and friends that I play the game with. If people really care about your exclusive achievements they'll look into your achievement history to scour that actual dates that you achieved them. Guess what? Nobody does that because nobody gives a shit. The game in general is just better for everybody if basically everything is available. This includes most seasonal events, challenge modes and even achievements like the proto drakes at the launch of WoTLK. They literally have the client data for Vanilla WoW, and realistically there's no reason they can't add an older version of Naxxaramas or Zul'Gurub back into the game so people could farm them if they wanted too. The exclusivity coming solely from the BMAH isn't exactly exciting.

A lot of people in this thread are just giving Blizzard a pass to be lazy. You're essentially saying it's impossible for them to balance previous features to be somewhat challenging or nearly as challenging as it was. It doesn't really matter if it doesn't mirror that difficulty exactly, my point is that they can and should get it close enough to where it doesn't need to be removed. They went through the entirety of MoP and WoD challenge modes, meaning that they should have a general idea of what the power level should be when balancing these dungeons. Same goes for any time exclusive rewards.

The TLDR here is don't let Blizzard be lazy. They're fully capable of TW features removed from the game in addition to adding additional toggles and difficulty options where you could mostly experience old raid encounters at a similar (but not exact) difficulty option.