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  1. #221
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Shadowrun would also like a word with you.
    No. No, it would not. Because I specifically mentioned Cyberpunk, not Shadowrun, because of its setting and theme.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    why the boner for tinkers? i never liked them. never was excited for them as a class in WoW compared to Death Knight or Demon Hunter.
    Mostly because Teriz won't shut up about them and will interpret anything and everything as evidence that they are definitely coming soon(tm).

  3. #223
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Mostly because Teriz won't shut up about them and will interpret anything and everything as evidence that they are definitely coming soon(tm).
    Hey now, I didn't start this thread....

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No. No, it would not. Because I specifically mentioned Cyberpunk, not Shadowrun, because of its setting and theme.
    Cyberpunk is both a genre and a game. Shadowrun is the former.

  5. #225
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dioporco View Post
    No? Warcraft never was an "high fantasy" was just "fantasy" and since it is has direct influence with Warhammer is even more evident?
    Dude, before you go around opening your mouth, educate yourself on what "high fantasy" means.

    Plus once you introduce stuff like Ulduar, Titan Construct and Facilities with robots the "high fantasy" is already gone.
    Same as above. Also, I never claimed that Warcraft does not have technology themes. I simply said its core theme is high fantasy. Reading comprehension is hard, I guess.

    Also the Cyberpunk "caster" question is big fail since in Cyberpunk you can play "hacker" and doing Quickhacks / Daemons attack which are basically the "spells" in Cyberpunk
    Wow. You truly fail hard at reading comprehension. Good god. Makes me wonder how you even know how to read at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  6. #226
    I wonder when it will dawn upon this community that Tinker is just the Waluigi of Warcraft.
    The funniest jokes on MMO-Champ in order: (This signature is not calling out anyone in SPECIFIC and is thus not breaking any rules)
    1: All the moderators that does not know how to handle this webpage.
    2: Whoever set up the auto-bot that does not know the rules.
    3: The rules and guidelines themselves.
    Speaking of jokes:https://i.imgur.com/MaBzzAR.png

  7. #227
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    And I'm talking about expansion classes in WoW, which a Bard would be. Every expansion class that has entered WoW has had its WC3 ability set.
    So what? That doesn't prove beyond a shadow of doubt that this is a mandatory rule. Especially since Legion breaks that argument in two fronts:
    • "All expansion classes are open to all if not most races" - the demon hunter says otherwise.
    • "All expansion classes have three specs" - the demon hunter says otherwise.

    The specific abilities are not based on NPCs, they're based on the hero units the class is based on.
    Same as above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    People ok with Tinker: Sure, why not.

    People not ok with Tinker: OH my God, this would be the worst thing to happen to WoW ever. I'm going to quit if that's the next class.
    then theres third group, tinker zealots: "tinker is ONLY viable class and will be added in 10.0, we said it since vanila and were wrong so far but this time it will surely happen"

  9. #229
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    We have three examples of this happening with 100% accuracy for all examples. It isn't conjecture.
    What is conjecture is your assertion that this is a fact that must happen to all future classes otherwise they're not going to be made into classes.

    And even then, even if the next class does have abilities from WC3, it still would not prove your assertion to be fact.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Cyberpunk is both a genre and a game. Shadowrun is the former.
    Fine. I was talking about the game. Better?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  10. #230
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So what? That doesn't prove beyond a shadow of doubt that this is a mandatory rule. Especially since Legion breaks that argument in two fronts:
    • "All expansion classes are open to all if not most races" - the demon hunter says otherwise.
    • "All expansion classes have three specs" - the demon hunter says otherwise.
    Where did I ever argue that expansion classes most be open to all races, or that expansion classes must have three specs?

    Red Herring much?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    then theres third group, tinker zealots: "tinker is ONLY viable class and will be added in 10.0, we said it since vanila and were wrong so far but this time it will surely happen"
    The difference is that there's actually evidence to support that the Tinker is the only viable class remaining.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, because that's completely besides the point. Your critique falls flat because it doesn't actually attack anything relevant, though.
    No its the correct critique because you are trying to tie in FF as a proof that if they can do it then so should we and also that FF games have tinkers running around like rats which is also false.

    Your tinkers are in game in the form of profession called engineering and alchemy. Only reason why DH worked and was foreseeable was that they gutted demo lock and legion was the next story step from WoD.

    For your precious tinker to be implemented they would have to gut Engineering profession. It wouldnt make any sense that you have a mechanical class but its either forced to take engineering or doesnt know how to use engineering items that belong to the class fantasy.

  12. #232
    As classes at least add:

    Regular Dwarf
    Lightbound Draenai
    Mechagnome

    Regular Orc
    Nightborne
    Zandalari Troll (with stone golem as tank)

  13. #233
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    No its the correct critique because you are trying to tie in FF as a proof that if they can do it then so should we and also that FF games have tinkers running around like rats which is also false.

    Your tinkers are in game in the form of profession called engineering and alchemy. Only reason why DH worked and was foreseeable was that they gutted demo lock and legion was the next story step from WoD.

    For your precious tinker to be implemented they would have to gut Engineering profession. It wouldnt make any sense that you have a mechanical class but its either forced to take engineering or doesnt know how to use engineering items that belong to the class fantasy.
    Uh, no. There are over a dozen Tinker abilities and none of them are in Engineering. A profession won't be touched by a class, because professions don't contain class abilities, and doesn't compete with a class for class roles (tanking/DPS/Healing).

    Also you wouldn't need to pick up engineering to be a Tinker. You're dealing with different technology. It's like saying you need to pick up Enchanting to be a mage. It's laughable.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    No its the correct critique because you are trying to tie in FF as a proof that if they can do it then so should we and also that FF games have tinkers running around like rats which is also false.
    No, i didn't. You simply failed to understand what i was saying.

  15. #235
    if Blizzard, safely the expansion that can be the heaven or the hell to the future of WoW, introduce Tinkers in a shitty argumentation, contrary to the others classes where was really added to the lore and theme of the expansion, the people are gonna be mad.

    And for more issues if the theme its dragons, the forums gonna be salty as fuck.

    I dont care about tinkers at all, but i HOPE that blizzard do not introduce a class that has 0 influence in the expansion theme, because that's the final thing that we need right now after one expansion of full plotholes lore wise.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Deneios View Post
    No its the correct critique because you are trying to tie in FF as a proof that if they can do it then so should we and also that FF games have tinkers running around like rats which is also false.

    Your tinkers are in game in the form of profession called engineering and alchemy. Only reason why DH worked and was foreseeable was that they gutted demo lock and legion was the next story step from WoD.

    For your precious tinker to be implemented they would have to gut Engineering profession. It wouldnt make any sense that you have a mechanical class but its either forced to take engineering or doesnt know how to use engineering items that belong to the class fantasy.
    What would they even gut out of engineering though.
    It’s mostly used for:
    Guns, sights, mounts, goggles, and other fun gadgets.
    None of those would be removed if Tinker is added.
    (Wormholes would be too much like mage portals, which is why they wouldn’t be added to Tinker)

    Engineering damage items haven’t been relevant since WoD at the latest. And every post about tinker I’ve seen still lets them still exist in the profession.
    (Survival hunters have bombs and traps, mages have mage portals, how are those not gutting engineering?)

    In SL I haven’t seen a single one of the
    Last edited by Nightshade711; 2022-03-28 at 06:42 PM.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by keygy View Post
    if Blizzard, safely the expansion that can be the heaven or the hell to the future of WoW, introduce Tinkers in a shitty argumentation, contrary to the others classes where was really added to the lore and theme of the expansion, the people are gonna be mad.

    And for more issues if the theme its dragons, the forums gonna be salty as fuck.

    I dont care about tinkers at all, but i HOPE that blizzard do not introduce a class that has 0 influence in the expansion theme, because that's the final thing that we need right now after one expansion of full plotholes lore wise.
    Relax, it'll be fine. 10.0 isn't just going to be dragon lore, goblins will also be involved, given Gallywix was spotted in Tazavesh sitting down with brokers.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by puddypounce View Post
    24 days until Tinker reveal by Blizzard. They have been investing an enormous amount of time from their animation and art teams into creating unique racial animations for the class. They see this as a love letter to the most wildly popular new class request.

    Alliance:
    Gnomes: Gnomish tech (duh)
    Dark Iron Dwarves: Dark iron type tech (Think the drills and the BRD golems)
    Draenai: Alien crystal tech (you've seen the golems

    Horde:
    Goblin: Standard goblin shredder type tech
    Mag'har orc: Iron Horde tech (It looks REALLY good).
    Blood Elf: Netherstorm blood elf type tech

    Mail/intellect class.

    Three specs:
    Enforcer: Tank. Battlesuit cooldown, with each race having a customized suit. Tank mechanic is built around a shield capacitor, with a focus on building large absorb shields to differentiate from other tanks.
    Alchemist: Healer. This spec plays most similar to how MOP Mistweaver played. There's a focus on self-spreading HOTS (and self-spreading DOTS). Some really cool visuals
    Engineer: Ranged DPS. I don't want to spoil it, but you guys are going to LOVE it.

    All of these archetypes have been explored in WOW. The team has a ton of art direction to pull from and they are really excited about how this class came together.

    Edit: 23 days!
    We should have more races as tinkers.

    Alliance:

    Tier 1
    • Dwarves: duh
    • Lightforged Draenei:
    • Night elves:
    • Void elves:
    • Humans: duh
    Tier 2
    • Kul'tirans
    • Worgen


    Horde:
    Tier 1
    • Nightborne:
    • Zandalari:
    • Forsaken:
    Tier 2
    • Orcs:
    • Vulpera:


    Criteria:
    • The entire basis for this is civilization or ingenuity minded - if your race has or had a civilization (even if destroyed) as long as you have people able to and have operated at that level - or ingeious when it comes to this it should quality even if you don't have anything yet to show for it.
    • War machines is also another qualification - if you had racial vehicles or siege engines, golems in your past or present and were a race capable of making them, then you also qualify.

    Racial Theme:
    -Each tinker group will have a theme similar to how druid forms are unique to race, these are based on the races' main themes and architecture - if you look at their siege weapons, and vehicles of war you will get the idea. Obviously allied races will share similarities to their core races with minor colour variations in theme.

    Orcs:
    If mag'har are, then normal orcs are too, they've developed hand in hand with the goblins - and the iron horde mag'har prove that orcs definitely have the aptitutde for it, Garrosh's improvements also prove that they have the tenacity for this

    Vulpera
    They are great with gadgets and tech even though it hasn't played a huge role in their race, but their nomadic roaming state can be ascribed to the history of vul'dun rather than who they are by nature and character, they can easily pick this up.

    Forsaken:
    Skull symbology, toxic chemical plague like arsenal, also specialise in flesh construct manipulation - bio tech.

    Zandalari:
    Uldir - golem based tech and engineering, loa anima powered too - it was never just science, it will always be science and magic.

    Nightborne:
    Kaldorei-esque engineering style, with a focus on arcane beams. warp temporal capacity is employed

    Humans
    Pretty standard alliance style devices you've seen in Wc1-3 and wow - mostly mechanical type of damage

    Kul'tirans:
    Similar to humans, but a sea theme, speciality in water operable tech deep sea demolitions and operations. Sonic magic.

    Worgen:
    While Gilnean are fully capable of being tinkers, , i would be fine with them not getting it, simply because humans cover it an they are humans, and presumably you would play a human tinker, not a worgen, what does being a wolf have to do with being a tinker and that is their only separation from being human - so you'd play a human one. However, i can equally argue and see that, if humans can be tinkers it's automatic that Worgen can too, that I also fully accept. However if for the former reason they weren't playable, that doesn't mean Gilneans won't have technology, they are a civilization - i mean blizzard could use the excuse they haven't developed in that direction much because they dropped out of the development race and war for so long only recently come back in, but that's a bit lame, they've been back since cataclysm, and if you look at their city and country, they are fully capable of being tinkers.

    Void Elves:
    Blood elf style equipment, but with a void flair and void powered weapons, their main interest is the mechanical devices harnessing and enhancing void power.

    Night Elves:
    Highborne, priests and druids mainly work here, similar to the nightborne, except they employ stellar arcane magic and have living machines like ancients also utilised. Priest devices alternate the power between arcane and void, and druid ones between nature and arcane.

    Lightforged:
    We've seen loadsa these in 7.3 anyway and the Battle of Lordaeron, they are similar to the Draenei ones, just coloured gold and white instead.

    Dwarves:
    Can't believe OP included dark irons, but not dwarves - sheesh.. dwarves rule and actually had been hute engineering contributors.
    Last edited by Mace; 2022-03-28 at 08:26 PM.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    even the idea that vulperas should be tinkers, from what weve seen their peak of technology is wheel
    It's kinda funny tbh.
    "They build stuff and are resourceful, thus they can be tinkers" Is an argument i've heard.

    Yeah, I built my own kitchen shelf, so I can now build nuclear reactors.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Locust Swarm in WoW;
    https://www.wowhead.com/spell=54022/locust-swarm

    Druid version;
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Insect_Swarm

    DK version;
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Unholy_Blight




    Your Brewmaster comment doesn't make sense regardless.



    It's a fact that each expansion class comes from WC3. It's a fact that these three classes had WC3 abilities as its base. It's a fact that the last two WC3 heroes with open abilities are Goblin and tech based.

    Where's the unproven theory?
    This is probably the biggest reach i've seen you done - and why are you linking the npc spell? :P

    The druid spell is completely different. its basically just a dot. It doesnt drain and its not an aoe effect around the caster and it has a different name.

    Unholy blight is closer but its not the same, its got a different name, it doesnt drain from the targets.

    You are reaching way too far here. You know i am right about this

    As i said - my brewmaster makes sense if you know what copium means.

    "It's a fact that each expansion class comes from WC3"

    No - its not.

    " It's a fact that these three classes had WC3 abilities as its base."

    Most classes in wow do

    "It's a fact that the last two WC3 heroes with open abilities are Goblin and tech based."

    Also no - i just gave you an example of one in the crypt lord

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