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  1. #1081
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    You seem to be ignoring WC3 which is really making your argument seem very strange and irrational.
    How many players, percentage-wise, knew of Warcraft 3 well enough to know the existence of Chen Stormstout, around the time of Cataclysm? 80%? 50%? 30%? 15%?

    As for bards, Hearthsinger Forresten is a homophobic stereotype
    That's a hot take. Explain.

    Lorewalker Cho is cool but not a "music bard", he's the "Loremaster" archetype which is kind of it's own thing,
    He's a "music bard". He literally sings during an event in Krasarang Wilds.

    Russel Brower isn't a real character all,
    He is a "real character". You can see him in at least two separate places, and in both places he helps you fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  2. #1082
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    How many players, percentage-wise, knew of Warcraft 3 well enough to know the existence of Chen Stormstout, around the time of Cataclysm? 80%? 50%? 30%? 15%?
    No idea, but it was sizeable. Basically everyone who'd played WC3 knew who he was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That's a hot take. Explain.
    Someone needs to learn the word "please" but okay lol. It is not remotely a hot take.

    Anyway, all the gear he drops is cheap "schoolboy giggles" gay innuendos - because "bards are gay lol" and being gay is inherently funny, right? If you're twelve maybe:

    Rainbow Girdle (this should be obvious)
    Songbird Blouse (oh a woman's piece of clothing, that's "funny" because he's "feminine because he's gay lol" - not my view, but definitely the view of whoever did that - also songbird is normally applied to women)
    Piccolo of the Flaming Fire ("flaming" being the operative word sigh)
    Woolies of the Prancing Minstrel ("prancing" because he's so camp, right?)
    Star of Mystaria (this is fine, Balnazzar drops it as well)

    https://www.wowhead.com/npc=10558/he...nger-forresten

    So we have a bunch of gay innuendo, the assumption that being gay is inherently funny, very stereotypical presentation of gay = feminine, and of course again "bards = gay". If you think this is someone Blizzard are going to draw attention to or be inspired by, you are very much mistaken. It's kind of surprising his gear has survived the great purge. Any one of the items might be fine, but all of them together is pretty clear. To be clear again, this isn't homophobia of the violent or really nasty kind, just the giggling schoolboy thinks being gay is a joke kind.

    And let's be clear, whilst bards are kind of hip/cool now, in 2022, back in 2004 "bards r gay lolz" was a very typical opinion from the boneheaded kind of MMORPG or TT RPG player. And all this stuff date from then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    He's a "music bard". He literally sings during an event in Krasarang Wilds.
    Fair enough, I didn't know about that event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    He is a "real character". You can see him in at least two separate places, and in both places he helps you fight.
    Sorry I don't agree. He's a simple tribute character to a composer. He's not a part of WoW lore or something.

    So Lorewalker Cho is a real bard I'd say, but he's pretty much the only non-joke example of a major "bard" NPC. Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see bards - I mostly play them when I play D&D, but I just don't think we will. That said, with Forresten, I suspect everyone involved in his creation is long-gone, so I don't think those attitudes persist at Blizzard.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  3. #1083
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    No idea, but it was sizeable. Basically everyone who'd played WC3 knew who he was.
    "I have no idea, but I have an idea". If you have "no idea", you can't tell if it was "sizeable" or even how big or small this "sizeable" was.

    Anyway, all the gear he drops is cheap "schoolboy giggles" gay innuendos - because "bards are gay lol" and being gay is inherently funny, right? If you're twelve maybe:
    So, your own opinion, because you associate anything colorful to "school boy giggles gay innuendos".

    Sorry I don't agree. He's a simple tribute character to a composer. He's not a part of WoW lore or something.
    You can disagree all you want, won't change the facts. He is a part of WoW lore just as much as Harrison Jones is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  4. #1084
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    "I have no idea, but I have an idea". If you have "no idea", you can't tell if it was "sizeable" or even how big or small this "sizeable" was.
    I said - everyone who played WC3. That's going be a sizeable percentage of early WoW players. No-one can know the exact percentage, and I'm not willing to lie or make up a figure for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So, your own opinion, because you associate anything colorful to "school boy giggles gay innuendos".
    Really we have three possibilities:

    1) You literally don't understand innuendo in English.

    2) You're being intentionally fake-obtuse to try to "win" an argument rather than discussing something.

    3) You understand the innuendo and are trying to pretend homophobia isn't homophobia. Which would be a lot crummier than the other two.

    Doesn't matter which, I'm blocking you, because you're either not capable of having this discussion, or not willing to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You can disagree all you want, won't change the facts. He is a part of WoW lore just as much as Harrison Jones is.
    I mean, literally he isn't because he appears far less often and is involved with far fewer quests. Harrison Jones has an entire zone basically dedicated to him.
    "A youtuber said so."

    "... some wow experts being interviewed..."

    "According to researchers from Wowhead..."

  5. #1085
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I said - everyone who played WC3. That's going be a sizeable percentage of early WoW players. No-one can know the exact percentage, and I'm not willing to lie or make up a figure for you.
    Except you're claiming "it's sizeable", then you are making a statement regarding the amount of players that played Warcraft 3 and still played WoW at the time of Cataclysm. A number you admitted you had "no idea".

    Really we have three possibilities:
    I'll take the fourth option: you're projecting your own biases and prejudices into it.

    I mean, literally he isn't because he appears far less often and is involved with far fewer quests. Harrison Jones has an entire zone basically dedicated to him.
    You're ignoring the point, isn't it? The point is that Russell Brower is part of the canon lore of Warcraft, regardless of how much you don't want to believe it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

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