April 19 Tinker Reveal

[reanimatez]

The love letter was a catfish

[Teriz]

So it's fine for the tinker to copy features from other existing classes, but god forbid other class ideas do the same? You always kept harping how other concepts "take" what already exists in other classes, that two classes cannot have the same features, etc.

But when the tinker's concerned? Everything's valid, take whatever you want for however many classes you want?

Blizzard has already stated that other classes will get charge abilities.

Also a Tinker using the Charge system for abilities like Deth Lazor is different than Demon Hunters getting Metamorphosis from Warlocks, or Necromancers completely dismantling Death Knights to get their core abilities.

[Diaphin]

I agree, and charged abilities would help MM a ton in carving out its own identity as a unique spec, instead of just Beastmaster without a pet.

I think it also translates the physical ranged with cast times identity better, when you physically charge the abilities, as if you are taking aim and pulling the string. Another spec I could see utilizing the system could be Arms warrior, charging more powerful attacks, which could help differenciating it from Fury Warrior more.

[huth]

Blizzard has already stated that other classes will get charge abilities.

They haven't. They stated that they might get them at some later point, but for now it's an Evoker only thing.

[Teriz]

They haven't. They stated that they might get them at some later point, but for now it's an Evoker only thing.

Fair enough. I really can't imagine if the Evoker's charge abilities are successful that we won't see them spread to other classes though.

[Ielenia]

Blizzard has already stated that other classes will get charge abilities.

Have they?

or Necromancers completely dismantling Death Knights to get their core abilities.

And tinkers "completely dismantling the engineering profession to get their core abilities"? And before you say anything, the dk has as many "core abilities" of the necromancer class as the engineering profession has the tinker's.

[Teriz]

Have they?

Correction; They said possibly.

And tinkers "completely dismantling the engineering profession to get their core abilities"? And before you say anything, the dk has as many "core abilities" of the necromancer class as the engineering profession has the tinker's.

Except that wouldn't happen because none of the Tinker's abilities exist in the engineering profession. In fact, Engineering produces items which don't overlap with abilities. XPlodium Charge isn't in engineering. Deth Lazor isn't in Engineering. Robo Goblin isn't in Engineering. Grav-O-Bomb 3000 isn't in engineering, etc, etc, etc.

On the other hand, Necromancer WC3 had Raise Dead and Unholy Frenzy, both abilities went to the DK class. Corpse Explosion is a classic Blizzard Necromancer ability, and it also wound up in the DK class. Death and Decay is another Necromantic ability from WC3 that wound up in the DK class. Sacrificial Pact from Shadowlands is a Necromancer ability that is in the DK class, and on and on and on.

That's the difference.

[Supertoster]

Correction; They said possibly.



Except that wouldn't happen because none of the Tinker's abilities exist in the engineering profession. In fact, Engineering produces items which don't overlap with abilities. XPlodium Charge isn't in engineering. Deth Lazor isn't in Engineering. Robo Goblin isn't in Engineering. Grav-O-Bomb 3000 isn't in engineering, etc, etc, etc.

On the other hand, Necromancer WC3 had Raise Dead and Unholy Frenzy, both abilities went to the DK class. Corpse Explosion is a classic Blizzard Necromancer ability, and it also wound up in the DK class. Death and Decay is another Necromantic ability from WC3 that wound up in the DK class. Sacrificial Pact from Shadowlands is a Necromancer ability that is in the DK class, and on and on and on.

That's the difference.

Also, there is no obligation for a new class to be based on already existing warcraft abilities. The only thing that actually matters is a theme and fantasy of the class and how it fits the setting.
Tinker fills the classical engineer/mechanic archetype, which is very common in high fantasy worlds. And there is no overlap with engineering profession, because it is a profession after all - it is all about crafting items, not being a combat class.
And there are many possibilities for Tinker abilities: grenades, bombs, mines, turrets, lasers, rockets, bots, guns, gadgets, mecha-suits and whatever else. Anything mechanical fits this archetype. Just look at GW2 Engineer class - it is a probably the best example of Engineer fantasy implementation in MMOs.

[Ielenia]

Correction; They said possibly.

So it could never happen.

Except that wouldn't happen because none of the Tinker's abilities exist in the engineering profession.

And neither does the death knight has "core necromancer abilities". Two classes can summon the dead, as long as they do different things with it.

[Teriz]

So it could never happen.

Possibly.

And neither does the death knight has "core necromancer abilities"

I listed the core necromancer abilities, and we have blizzard stating that they placed Necromancer abilities and concepts in the DK class. If you don't believe they're core necromancer abilities, that's your business.

[Ielenia]

I listed the core necromancer abilities,

"Animate Dead". There, a different ability. Unholy Frenzy, an ablity DKs no longer have. Corpse explosion? Not needed, and was never a necromancer ability in WoW. Death and Decay also was never a necromancer ability, but a lich one. Sacrificial Pact was never a necromancer ability.

So like I said: in the end, you got nothing for your argument of "a necromancer hAs To DiSmAnTlE a DeAtH kNiGhT to exist".

and we have blizzard stating that they placed Necromancer abilities and concepts in the DK class.

And? What's stopping them from changing their minds and start funneling necromancer concepts into a new necromancer class? Like Blizzard now has to split "frost" concept and abilities with both the mage and DK? How Blizzard has had to split the "fire" concept and abilities with the warlock and the mage since the game's inception? And the priest and paladin?

If you don't believe they're core necromancer abilities, that's your business.

Such a dumb argument, easily countered with "if you believe they're "core necromancer abilities, that's your business."

[Xeenith]

I already said this, but I find useful to bind the necromancer and the dark rangers "class" together in the same way we have elemental and enhance chamans, so the necromancer class could have a bow spec, a caster spec, and a permanent multi pets spec

[Cosmic Janitor]

I already said this, but I find useful to bind the necromancer and the dark rangers "class" together in the same way we have elemental and enhance chamans, so the necromancer class could have a bow spec, a caster spec, and a permanent multi pets spec

You'd be pretty much treading the same ground as deathknights by then, even more so than it would already do from the onset. Unless you want the dark ranger part to be only wearing cloth or the caster to wear only leather or higher - both of which would be a betrayal of the underlying fantasy of the specs - you'd essentially just end up with another weird hybrid that is lacking the full fantasy of either. Which is pretty much the only argument why unholy DKs don't fullfill the necromancer niche sufficiently, because besides the armor and range they already heavily deal in dots and minion gameplay.

Incorporating some dark arts into the hunter class wouldn't be much of an issue as well. There is really no hard lore that says hunters need to be pro life, heck we have mechanical pets already and dark rangers aren't required to be undead either, since the living can channel necormantic magic as well. Not to mentioned the half rotten beasts that frosaken (and other) hunters can tame. In essence dark rangers are just fallen rangers (so the good parts of hunters) anyway. Heck you could even make a little quest where the dark ranger from the legion order hall is looking for sylvanas in the maw or some shit and you unlock it that way; it practically writes itself. I see no reason why you'd need to make a whole class about it whose only commong ground is some use of necromantic magic. Dark Rangers are not necromancers and necromancers are usually not trained in archery.

Necromancer on the other hand has quite a few more issues to make it into the game. While a similar logic to unlocking it could be applied to warlocks and worst case even mages, warlocks and necromancer have really nothing in common other than dealing with life forces and souls occasionally. Warlocks have nothing to do with the dead though, and necromancers usually don't deal in demons either. It's always weird when combining classes and suddenly core features no longer work in certain specs, which is definitely the case with the 4 warlock summons. But the bigger issue rather than the core fantasy is the origin of WoW's warlock class in itself. Warlocks are the "more acceptable alternative" to necromancers in WoW's lore because necromancers were wholsale connected to the scourge. Warlocks are just power hungry, necromancers are flat out the enemy of life. That is also why warlocks have the classicial gameplay tropes of debuffer/DoT gameplay as well as minion summoning in WoW associated with them, when other franchises don't use them like that. In the RTS games they were also the "evil orc" stand in for mages, which mostly explains the destruction tree. In WoW necromancers are practically already existant as warlocks when it comes to gameplay, at least if we talk classical necromancer gameplay. A different take on necromancer like in ESO may be an option, but that is really not what people are usually asking for when the clamor for a necromancer class.

While I think after Drakthyr everything is possible given enough desperation on Blizzard's end, it also stands to reason that the time for another necromantic class has simply passed for now. I'd argue that we won't be seeing them any time soon, until we retread the undead theme again, which is probably off another 5-8 years at least.

[huth]

"Animate Dead". There, a different ability. Unholy Frenzy, an ablity DKs no longer have. Corpse explosion? Not needed, and was never a necromancer ability in WoW. Death and Decay also was never a necromancer ability, but a lich one. Sacrificial Pact was never a necromancer ability.

So like I said: in the end, you got nothing for your argument of "a necromancer hAs To DiSmAnTlE a DeAtH kNiGhT to exist".

No, no, you're misunderstanding. Dismantling and dissecting a Death Knight is now a required part of Necromancer education, and any Necrolytes calling themselves Necromancers without having gone through that course are just posers.

[Dakhath]

I don't really have any interest in Tinkers, but I hope some day they are added to the game just to see how Teriz absolutely shits on all of you, justified or not. That will be quality entertainment.

[Kiria]

I don't really have any interest in Tinkers, but I hope some day they are added to the game just to see how Teriz absolutely shits on all of you, justified or not. That will be quality entertainment.

I don't think he would, Teriz is actually quite respectable to others.. Although he can be abit over zealous he has never stepped foot out of line and reduced himself to mocking others.

[Teriz]

I don't really have any interest in Tinkers, but I hope some day they are added to the game just to see how Teriz absolutely shits on all of you, justified or not. That will be quality entertainment.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't respond at all.

For the last couple of years, I've grown to be passionate about two concepts; Tinkers and Dragons. I got one of my concepts realized, and I'm content with that. We got a unique class that offers new gameplay options, and we got a new class that fills the third Mail armor slot. That's all I've ever really wanted whether it was Tinker or Dragon, so I'm satisfied.

I will certainly miss some aspects of the great class debates, but at this point, I don't care about them anymore. Hopefully, the people wanting Necromancers, Dark Rangers, and whatever else get what they're pining for. Hopefully the people still desperately wanting Tinkers get them someday as well.

[Deventh]

And..........................................................?

And stop leaking something that will not happen.

[Ielenia]

If HoTs is enough basement for new class, then Tinker should be even higher on the list, because Tinkers are both in lore, in WoW game, and in Hots (Gazlow)

First: there is no such list, really. There is no "priority list" for classes to be added.
Second: if such a list even exists, the tinker is not anywhere the top of the list, considering all the classes we got added so far.

[Echo of Soul]

And stop leaking something that will not happen.

If you leak something and it doesn't happen you're spreading misinformation. That shouldn't be allowed in my opinion.