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  1. #261
    Banned Strawberry's Avatar
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    Blizzard will drag WoW on forever. I'm waiting on the Light vs Void fight and the end of WoW so they can make something more modern.
    WoW is getting really old.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    You do realize this discussion has been kicked off by an existing character receiving a new outfit?
    Yes, and you're the one saying that this was what people asked for. It wasn't, they asked for additional characters.


    Taking a small interest group as "proof" to what a large group of people wants is simply stupid, you can handwave that aside all you want.
    That is literally what every company basically does. What do you think all thsoe surveys are for? All those market research groups? Also, not sure I'd describe "women" as a "small interest group"

    Regardless, again, A woman asking for something, backed up by other women is more reliable on what women want than a man on the internet.

    Because that's what women want? Anime?
    Really?
    That's what FF14's characters are like.

    That is utterly tortured logic, because the natural implication is to stop doing one thing, rather than add new stuff for them to enjoy.

    The implication being they stop making new characters in skimpy outfits, yes.

    That's the problem, they're requesting to stop adding things other people enjoy
    Again, no they didn't. If you were at a restraunt and you ordered steak and someone asks "Can I have a salad" they aren't saying "Take away steak." They can add both new female characters with 'fanservice' and without. They did not ask for anyhting to be removed or halted, but to also have what they wanted.

    and the result of this request has been that characters who previously wore more revealing outfits, now wear a less revealing outfit.
    Which is something you should take up with Blizzard.

    A more apt request would have been "Hey, can you add more stuff out of a Calvin Klein catalogue"?
    A more apt response would have been the devs not being dicks and mocking a fan in front of tens of thousands of people.

    In the grand scheme of things, they're still absolutely not representative.

    "Look, 10 people support something and this one guy doesn't, that means the 10 people are correct!".
    Is that how make decisions when talking about the preferences of millions of people?
    And how are you gonna get that "grand representative" if anyone who wants to start the discussion about it gets utterly shat on by the devs?

    I never claimed to be but i also wasn't the person who implied that a handful few represent a group of millions.
    I never said that either, but I am saying that a woman has a better idea of what women want than a man does. Or do you disagree with that?


    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    At least we got alternatives to the far east, which is pumping out sexy females left and right. I have never ever met a female that wanted less revealed clothing in a game, these must be cherrypicked examples from the deepest shithole on the web.
    Have you ever even met a "female" before?

  3. #263
    Brewmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Thrall had an unbuttoned blouse showing midriff when he was the leader of the cataclysm, Illidan was the posterboy of both TBC and Legion, both times wearing only pants, so surely it doesn't have anything to do with leading a faction or fronting the expansion.
    It was apparently ok for them to "be traipsing off into battle with exposed midriffs." as you put it, surely it's no better or worse for guys to not cover their belly. So 3 times guys fronted an expansion, hey, no problem, no shirt needed.
    3 times girls fronted expansions, hey, better cover that belly.

    Check your own avatar and signature, shirtless guy ready to fight, or do you think he needs to put something on to protect his midriff? In your signature it looked like he "traipsed off into battle with exposed midriff"

    And yes they added an incubus, that was a job well done, not complaining about that at all.

    There is this stupid idea that women die instantly with an exposed midriff, but not guys.
    It’s because the pendulum has went full swing now. Back in the 90’s it was the right that wanted to cover up women, they were the pearl grasping type. Then it started to normalise out in the early 00’s. Now it’s the left that went that way, the “woke” crowd, they have became what they hated but just a different colour. Give it a few years and it will normalise again before another full pendulum swing.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Hope alexstraca is as sexy as ever
    Are you alright? You really need to see a doctor if your main priority is a video game character being attractive.

  5. #265
    Keyboard Turner
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    Truth

    This isn't something that would happen accidentally.
    This is so true as they have said that everything we gamers find in the game is done with some purpose in mind.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Are you alright? You really need to see a doctor if your main priority is a video game character being attractive.
    Dragonexpansion, alexstraca is the first dragon I thought of, cause she had a really nice outfit. Seeing the poster, caused me the concern, especially how they pruned pictures and jokes already. Anything else I need to clear up for you? You seem like the guy that needs it.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Dragonexpansion, alexstraca is the first dragon I thought of, cause she had a really nice outfit. Seeing the poster, caused me the concern, especially how they pruned pictures and jokes already. Anything else I need to clear up for you? You seem like the guy that needs it.
    I'm not confused at all by anything you're saying beyond my earnest inability to see why putting cloth on the stomach of a fictional character so deeply irritates you.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Here you go.

    https://youtu.be/EcqY40Kx2RY

    Note the cheering of women immediately after before the men start booing her





    The issue is that when they speak up, they get shut down by men and tend to go somewhere else.



    Yes, but there's also things like catboys and other "soft" men designs which appeal to women, as well as cute outfits and player housing. One of my friends who plays it, plays largely for the dance club she runs ingame.



    A) It's a bit simplistic to say that because clothing isn't skimpy it isn't attractive
    B) Women literally said, on camera, that they wanted less female characters wearing skimpy stuff
    C) The large amount of cheers from women immediately after support that (before being drowned out by the boos of men)
    D) "Bogus"?
    On the other hand, online men lost their shit about Galadriel wearing plate armor.

    As for Alextraza, I think it would be more fun if they explored traditional "goddess of life" attires.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Yes, and you're the one saying that this was what people asked for. It wasn't, they asked for additional characters.
    I didn't.
    You did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    It's pretty clear that the "empowerment" argument is bunk if the target of the empowerment wants them wearing clothes.
    You're saying that those people want them wearing more clothes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    That is literally what every company basically does. What do you think all thsoe surveys are for? All those market research groups?
    I don't think that is the result of market surveys.

    Example: Bowls of Fruit.
    Where the devs flat out admitted that they're doing it for themselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Regardless, again, A woman asking for something, backed up by other women is more reliable on what women want than a man on the internet.
    Meanwhile, other games have far more sexuality featured and still have a higher percentage of female playerbase, which also shows that said women hardly represent the majority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    So, why not ask for something like this in Warcraft's artstyle?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    The implication being they stop making new characters in skimpy outfits, yes.
    Which obviously causes a negative reception from people that enjoy these things.
    And i repeat: This discussion is sparked by a redesign.

    But hey, at least you admit that for you, it's about something existing within the game, rather than the game lacking something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Again, no they didn't. If you were at a restraunt and you ordered steak and someone asks "Can I have a salad" they aren't saying "Take away steak." They can add both new female characters with 'fanservice' and without. They did not ask for anyhting to be removed or halted, but to also have what they wanted.
    Funny, because runs pretty contrary to
    The implication being they stop making new characters in skimpy outfits, yes
    That is the problem at hand, if they want something for themselves, that's no problem, if they take offense to the fact that something is given to someone else, that's naturally a problem.

    Be mindful how you phrase things, because it's very different whether you want something for yourself or not want that someone else gets something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Which is something you should take up with Blizzard.
    Well, the general response, as seen in this discussion is someone telling me that women seemingly want this, alongside the usual implication that i'm somehow complicit to the sexual harassment that has happened at Blizzard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    A more apt response would have been the devs not being dicks and mocking a fan in front of tens of thousands of people.
    Them giving a more respectful answer changes jackshit about the discussion at hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    And how are you gonna get that "grand representative" if anyone who wants to start the discussion about it gets utterly shat on by the devs?
    Because starting a discussion with "Hey, i don't like this stuff you enjoy, stop doing it" rarely is a good way to start a discussion.

    Let alone that a Blizzcon Q&A is the right place to start this minefield of a debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    I never said that either, but I am saying that a woman has a better idea of what women want than a man does. Or do you disagree with that?
    ???
    Do you think a handful of women represent womenhood as a whole?
    Do you agree with that?
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-04-04 at 10:14 AM.

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    I'm not confused at all by anything you're saying beyond my earnest inability to see why putting cloth on the stomach of a fictional character so deeply irritates you.
    I like hot characters and NPCs, it's a preference (shared by a lot of gamers, females too). They might be on a course of taking it away bit by bit, hence the concern.
    Damn, you really do need to be spoonfed everything.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    I like hot characters and NPCs, it's a preference (shared by a lot of gamers, females too). They might be on a course of taking it away bit by bit, hence the concern.
    Damn, you really do need to be spoonfed everything.
    Yes, but why do you need that? Why is it an issue if they take it away? Is it a good preference to have?

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Conceptuel View Post
    Yes, but why do you need that? Why is it an issue if they take it away? Is it a good preference to have?
    Yes, its a very good preference of mine, I love seeing half naked chicks who are good looking, in game, and in real life. It's an attraction that makes me feel good.
    On my workplace, this is not a preference I'm cultivating though, but in games, and on my leisure time, it's a good thing. On holidays, even more so!

  13. #273
    Pandaren Monk Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mic_128 View Post
    Here you go.

    https://youtu.be/EcqY40Kx2RY

    Note the cheering of women immediately after before the men start booing her





    The issue is that when they speak up, they get shut down by men and tend to go somewhere else.



    Yes, but there's also things like catboys and other "soft" men designs which appeal to women, as well as cute outfits and player housing. One of my friends who plays it, plays largely for the dance club she runs ingame.



    A) It's a bit simplistic to say that because clothing isn't skimpy it isn't attractive
    B) Women literally said, on camera, that they wanted less female characters wearing skimpy stuff
    C) The large amount of cheers from women immediately after support that (before being drowned out by the boos of men)
    D) "Bogus"?
    Oh my god. Now I want to go to a danceclub done via housing in WoW. What an awesome, aweeeesome idea.

  14. #274
    Over 9000! Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sialina View Post
    Check your own avatar and signature, shirtless guy ready to fight, or do you think he needs to put something on to protect his midriff? In your signature it looked like he "traipsed off into battle with exposed midriff"
    It's a completely different motivation behind the design though, and I say this as a character designer:

    Illidan was designed shirtless to make him look cool and dangerous -- exposed without armor, covered in magic tattoos. It's a design that reinforces his character and class. (Nevermind that there are also now plenty of similarly scantily clad female Demon Hunters in the game.)

    Thrall is an orc, orcs tend to show a lot of skin. Regardless of gender:




    Sylvanas and Jaina, like so many female characters in fantasy stories, were designed (by men) to look titillating (to men). What aspect of Jaina's personality is being conveyed through her exposed midriff? I would argue it doesn't fit her personality at all.

    There's nothing wrong with female characters dressing provocatively, but it should be a reflection of their character, not simply to titillate.

    The new designs don't even really change their silhouettes, anyway. They're even all wearing some degree of corset. They just looks more armored and battle ready, if anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    I like hot characters and NPCs


    Like, does this character look ugly to you?

    Do you need to be surrounded by women in bikinis like Jabba the Hutt or something?

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    It's a completely different motivation behind the design though, and I say this as a character designer:

    Illidan was designed shirtless to make him look cool and dangerous -- exposed without armor, covered in magic tattoos. It's a design that reinforces his character and class. (Nevermind that there are also now plenty of similarly scantily clad female Demon Hunters in the game.)

    Thrall is an orc, orcs tend to show a lot of skin. Regardless of gender:




    Sylvanas and Jaina, like so many female characters in fantasy stories, were designed (by men) to look titillating (to men). What aspect of Jaina's personality is being conveyed through her exposed midriff? I would argue it doesn't fit her personality at all.

    There's nothing wrong with female characters dressing provocatively, but it should be a reflection of their character, not simply to titillate.

    The new designs don't even really change their silhouettes, anyway. They're even all wearing some degree of corset. They just looks more armored and battle ready, if anything.

    - - - Updated - - -





    Like, does this character look ugly to you?

    Do you need to be surrounded by women in bikinis like Jabba the Hutt or something?
    Yes, that is ugly as fuck. I prefer sexy clothes and outfits, doesn't need to be bikini. Why are you making it sound like its borderline criminal to want this?

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Yes, that is ugly as fuck. I prefer sexy clothes and outfits, doesn't need to be bikini. Why are you making it sound like its borderline criminal to want this?
    It's not criminal, but it is creepy. Why don't you just go watch porn instead?

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    It's not criminal, but it is creepy. Why don't you just go watch porn instead?
    Cause there's a difference?? Haha, some people on this site man.

  18. #278
    TBC - Illidan left for death with no hint or possibility of surviving in the frozen wastes in WC3FT, Blizzard brings him back
    Magtherion killed by illidan in WC3FT, brought back to life
    Archimonde killed in WC3, brought back to be used in the caverns of time

    WOTLK - Kelthuzad dead/stuck in his urn in Vanilla, Blizzard brings him back without any explanation as to how.
    Onyxia killed and beheaded in Vanilla, Blizzard brought back to life, just to be a.....filler boss for the memes

    Cata - Neferian killed and beheaded in Vanilla, Blizzard brings back to life
    Onyxia killed twice and beheaded twice, blizzard brings back to life

    MOP - Good expansion, all fresh new content.

    WOD - an expansion back in time FULL of dead brought back to life bad guys...including Archimonde for the third time.

    Legion - Illidan presumed dead in WC3FT, presumed dead in TBC, is brought back for a third time
    The pantheon who were all killed by Sargeras 10,000 years ago, are brought back to life


    You get the point, Blizzard has a thing where they lack imagination and any bone of creativity. They love to kill characters off and then go "Well..we can't think up anything new so let's just bring someone back to life"
    This is an expansion called dragonflight. I PROMISE YOU! I promise....after we just saw how they butchered Arthas and how they've butchered Illidan and archimonde both 3 times in lore.... I promise...they are going to find a way to poorly write Deathwing coming back into the story and they will BUTCHER whatever lore is left about him cause Steve douche is trash...Steve douche loves a good redemption story..I bet they plan to give Deathwing one.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by OokOok View Post
    ...
    I feel like most of these complaints are pretty hollow in a fantasy world where necromancy, time travel and resurrection exist in lore. There's even lore for demons coming back.

    We're not even seeing them that often. There is plenty of time between their appearances.
    Lore-wise I really disliked MoP. "Why do we fight" had a shitty predictable answer. The saving grace of that expansion was the raids.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    -Snip-

    Sylvanas and Jaina, like so many female characters in fantasy stories, were designed (by men) to look titillating (to men). What aspect of Jaina's personality is being conveyed through her exposed midriff? I would argue it doesn't fit her personality at all.

    There's nothing wrong with female characters dressing provocatively, but it should be a reflection of their character, not simply to titillate.

    The new designs don't even really change their silhouettes, anyway. They're even all wearing some degree of corset. They just looks more armored and battle ready, if anything.

    - - - Updated - - -





    Like, does this character look ugly to you?

    Do you need to be surrounded by women in bikinis like Jabba the Hutt or something?
    First off, I'm a woman, and yes, I like when feme fatales are allowed to exist in media as they were.

    Listen to yourself here, Illidan is cool when he wears no shirt (according to you), but Alexstrasza is somehow not?

    The NPC you linked looks atrocious, there is a reason you have a shirtless guy as your avatar instead of that ugly thing you linked at the bottom.

    I don't see how it can be so hard to imagine that some of us feel badass when we dress like femme fatales, just like you feel badass when you have a naked guy in your profile.
    And please, keep your insults to yourself, as a lady wanting some of the females to retain their femme fatal looks, Jabba the hut, what does that make you with way less dressed guy in your profile?

    What you don't understand is that some women like the look where you are so badass and above it all that you decide NOT to wear a steel mill into battle the same way you feel it's cool when Illidan takes on the legion with no shirt.

    What you are doing here is called sexism, you think women need to be battle ready, otherwise we are somehow less, but guys are very cool when they don't even need a shirt on to go into battle.
    I'm not saying guys should have to wear shirts, I'm saying leave the lady that transforms into a DRAGON BEFORE FIGHTING in her femme fatale attire.

    I also question your whole "designed by a man" narrative, do you think we are aliens from another planet and we somehow like guys completely different from what guys think is beautiful? Of course not, we might disagree on some details, but overall, if you asked a 1000 women and a 1000 guys what their dream body looked like if they could choose to look like any thing, I can say with extreme confidence that most of the women would like the "male dream body" the men chose for themselves, and most of the guys would like the "female dream body" women chose for themselves.
    Last edited by Sialina; 2022-04-04 at 01:12 PM.

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