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  1. #181
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ham on Rye View Post
    The "earlier, harder" versions of raids were too easy. That's the point.
    If you're going to post, at least have some idea about the topic of which you speak.

    Thankful that Sunwell will be the challenge that the rest of TBC Classic wasn't.

    Really? Thankful? I know a lot of people who will quit now, waiting for WotLK classic, who are dadgamers like me, who don't appriciate challenge and wipes. I will NEVER set foot in that raid, as I really feel too old to deal with progress runs and wipes.

    Just the feeling I have overall, people are dropping off, and I don't think Sunwell will be appriciated by many.

  2. #182
    I'd like to see a -20% or even 30% xp reduction across the board. That way people arrive in the Storm Peaks at level 58 even when they play the full continent. Storm Peaks have an insane amount of content that often goes to waste as soon as people hit 60.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I think you are wrong because the majority of players that nowadays plays Classic plays that exclusively would quite likely only reluctantly play Retail for the lack of alternatives or have quit entirely if Blizzard hadn't released Classic.
    Most of the people I know who play classic are doing so to stave off their retail addition. Anecdotal, but so is everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    This "splitting the community" is a myth that Blizzard itself has debunked because there is not a massive overlap between these two groups.
    Seems you don't understand the question... the classic community is split between classic, TBC classic, season of mastery classic and soon to be WotLK classic (and maybe season of mastery TBC classic).

    Season of Mastery has been considered a failure due to low player counts, because most are playing TBC classic instead.

    There really are not enough players to support 2-3-4 modes of classic.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  4. #184
    You will burn your fingers on some ulduar hardmodes if you tune up numbers

  5. #185
    Wrath was literally tuned so that Grandma could play it and win. The current spreadsheet try-hard sweaty virgin chad classic crowd is going to obliterate the content immediately and be bored. The population is going to plummet much quickly than previous Classic launches.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Pre nerf fights are authentic to the original game, artificial buffs are not.

    I really dislike engaging such a semantic arguement when the difference is frankly obvious, because, again, OP didn't say "release pre nerf versions of Wotlk encounters!", he said "Buff everything because it's so easy!".
    These are two different things.

    The title of this thread literally is "Tune up Wotlk, a lot", not "release Wotlk as it was".
    Tuning up WotLK would be authentic. Guilds in WotLK didn't kill bosses in sub-2 mins, especially not on prog. Due to addons and player skill differences, fights should be tuned up to match the authentic, original duration.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Sugani View Post
    I think they should focus their efforts on making evergreen content for retail. The classic train should have ended at vanilla, splitting the player base between several versions of the game is an absolutely stupid idea. Might be a hot take, but I'm not wrong.
    The people that kept playing vanilla classic and SOM are not the people who care about playing tbc or wrath.. On top of that the number of players is extremely small. The large majority will be living in northrend here shortly. You want to know how I know this? Tbc classic won’t get a permanent fixture. (Input sarcasm) “everyone’s favorite expansion”

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Look, if you cannot see the obvious difference between "pre nerf" and "artificially buffed", i cannot help you.
    Releasing a late balance patch on early raid is a nerf and isn't authentic. Sorry this concept is too challenging for you.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  9. #189
    Bloodsail Admiral Rad1um's Avatar
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    As long as Paladins are OP AF during ICC, we're good to go.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Even with +200% HP and more dmg these encounters will be faceroll.
    That's literally the point. Adding 200% HP will not increase difficulty, but it will let you do your full rotation once before the boss dies. You know, actually play the game?

    Might as well add vendors instead of raiding if the boss dies in less than 5 minutes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Do you genuinely enjoy killing Illidan without even seeing the demon phase? Fights last 2 minutes. It´s absurd and not fun.
    Most wow players are casual bads. Most casual bads believe that the only difference between them at Liquid/Echo/Method/etc is that those players have better time management skills ("no life"). Playing a nerfed classic and doing things like you mention there with Illidan is used to validate their feelings. "See? I was really really good at WoW back then and I could have been a pro gamer! AHA!"
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Most of the people I know who play classic are doing so to stave off their retail addition. Anecdotal, but so is everything.
    Blizzard has straight up said that the majority of Classic players does not engage in Retail at all.
    They said this when they justified the close timing of Castle Nathria Launch and Naxx Launch.

    This isn't anecdotal and i doubt TBC (or the performance of 9.1 / 9.2 for that matter) has changed much in that regard.

    I even said this in the very post you quoted.
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Seems you don't understand the question... the classic community is split between classic, TBC classic, season of mastery classic and soon to be WotLK classic (and maybe season of mastery TBC classic).
    ???
    Have you even read the post i've been replying to with this statement.
    I think they should focus their efforts on making evergreen content for retail. The classic train should have ended at vanilla, splitting the player base between several versions of the game is an absolutely stupid idea. Might be a hot take, but I'm not wrong.
    The post literally says that Blizzard should focus on Retail and ditch Classic entirely.
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    There really are not enough players to support 2-3-4 modes of classic.
    That's wrong for one simple reason: Players don't split themselves evenly.

    If you offer two game versions, have 10M total and 9.999M of those players play version A, then it's not that you don't have enough players for both versions, then it's because Version B isn't appealing.

    Nevermind that SoM in itself simply skipped out on some critical changes and its timing was frankly poorly.
    I like Classic and always will, but after playing the Classic endgame for 1.5 years, i think it's fine for passing on a 2nd round of that very engame just after a few months it has ended.

    If SoM wanted to retain more players past the leveling phase, more changes were necessary rather than just making raiding slightly more difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Releasing a late balance patch on early raid is a nerf and isn't authentic. Sorry this concept is too challenging for you.
    It's certainly more authentic than literally buffing raids to numbers that they never had.

    If you are that much of a purist that you only consider a progressive launch authentic, then look forward to the servers being a ghost town after a month, because no one wants to put up with the 3.0 class balance for longer than that.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-05-06 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #192
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oftenwrongsoong View Post
    Wrath was literally tuned so that Grandma could play it and win. The current spreadsheet try-hard sweaty virgin chad classic crowd is going to obliterate the content immediately and be bored. The population is going to plummet much quickly than previous Classic launches.
    I'm not sure I agree.

    Naxx and the normal modes afterwards were really easy. That was kind of the point. And most heroics could be cleared really fast. Some of them you could clear the trash in 2-3 pulls.

    But some of the Ulduar hard modes will not be for everyone. We won't see whole guilds with the helicopter mount.

    And Lick King on HM was never downed until the buff kicked it. The numbers started to be pretty tight there.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Oftenwrongsoong View Post
    Wrath was literally tuned so that Grandma could play it and win. The current spreadsheet try-hard sweaty virgin chad classic crowd is going to obliterate the content immediately and be bored. The population is going to plummet much quickly than previous Classic launches.
    This is what someone who exists entirely within a bubble says. Imagine thinking the try-hard sweaty virgin chad crowd are the majority of the playerbase. No, just because they post on the forums doesn't mean they're the average player.

    The reality is that the decreased level of the difficulty in Wrath will draw in hordes of new players and keep the casuals around. What would cause players to quit (and did in TBC Classic) was making the content harder. The vast majority of players don't play WoW to have a Dark Souls experience. Especially on a Classic server. They just want to relax and have fun with old content. And by the way, the Heroic raids will not be pushovers in the slightest. That's where the challenge is.

    I'm becoming convinced people who make threads like this and think this way simply want Wrath Classic to fail.

  14. #194
    Sunwell is the testing ground. If all the dad guilds crash and burn and it becomes a only the top 10-15% of guilds bother sticking around.. I would expect WotLK to get absolutely nothing to make it harder.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkaden View Post
    Because the pre-nerfed versions existed. You guys are asking for things to happen that didnt happen in wrath. Huge difference. Im more than fine with per-nerf where the pre-nerf existed. It would be silly to try to add buffs to the content. It won't help. Knowledge is everything and they cant take that away.

    Hell, in SoM AQ40, they added c'thun eye beaming and the eye tentacles / bigger tentacles to the "hard modes" of every boss fight and people are face rolling it lol. You simply cant make people forget mechanics.
    I didn't ask for anything.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Ham on Rye View Post
    The "earlier, harder" versions of raids were too easy. That's the point.
    If you're going to post, at least have some idea about the topic of which you speak.

    Thankful that Sunwell will be the challenge that the rest of TBC Classic wasn't.
    True, but challenge would be an overstatement, unless of course just comparing to the pre-sunwell content. That raid will be trampled in less than a breeze. Even back then keeping up with the gating was no issue for mediocre guilds (like mine). What caused problems back then, today all of which are trivial or even laughable:
    How to deal with the twins' debuff stuff.
    Tanks & dps to pick targets in "lightning fast pace" at m'uru. Yes, that was too difficult for some back then.
    Clicking mass dispel when timer says ding and the bad stuff spawns.
    Clicking purge/dispel when bad stuff spawns at p2.
    Dodge meteors and position yourself with at least half a brain active.

  17. #197
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Sunwell is the testing ground. If all the dad guilds crash and burn and it becomes a only the top 10-15% of guilds bother sticking around.. I would expect WotLK to get absolutely nothing to make it harder.
    That is a good point.

    SWP is definitely a 3 steps higher difficulty to the rest in BC. I still expect it to be easier, but it should deffo prove a challenge for most. Basic things like Brutallus eating the tanks, healers need to be sharp, regardless of knowing the fight well.

  18. #198
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    I've never understood the rose tinted glasses view of sunwell. Sunwell isn't difficult, it's a series of just tightly tuned number based gearchecks.

    The actual mechanics are no more difficult than five mans have been for the past decade.


    Sports and Fitness mod, Brit with weird sleeping hours.
    Has good taste in ale, bad taste in D&D choices.

  19. #199
    Warchief roboscorcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugani View Post
    I think they should focus their efforts on making evergreen content for retail. The classic train should have ended at vanilla, splitting the player base between several versions of the game is an absolutely stupid idea. Might be a hot take, but I'm not wrong.
    You are.

    Retail is a bloated mess compared to TBC.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by kranur View Post
    From what I remember, ince Ulduar hits, the hard modes and heroic versions are decently challenging.
    With that said, you should bookmark this thread and post proof on how you got Yogg-0, Algalon, Immortality and Heroic LK in the week that they become available.

    People really need to start accepting the fact that this is not 2007 where 60-70% were new players that had no idea what they were doing.

    Also, pretty sure that a lot of people on classic like it because they can actually play to have a good time instead of continous stress on exaggerate tuning.

    Exactly this, point by point, thanks.

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