Horde would get the black dragonflight which is the only cool one anyway so works for me.
Horde would get the black dragonflight which is the only cool one anyway so works for me.
None. Dragaons will did not take any side by self. Maybe if pushed to choice but very daubtful.
I think it would depend on what happened, but if it were just bickering like it was with BFA, they would choose none.
Then again, I doubt they would all move as a monolith anyway, unless they were threatened as one.
Yeah, i kept it short.
But you're spot on, the only thing dragons might like about the horde are tauren burgers.
Though with a small addendum: A lot of things indicate that Wrathion will fall to darkness, whatever form that may take.
N'zoth was fairly clear about that and hasn't been werong often, but meta there is also hearthstone, which occasionally foreshadows new races and developments.
In hearthstone Wrathion's abilities notable involve fel and madness, and his form is similar to the one from Ny'alotha.
As such the blacks might ultimately be reduced to Ebonhorn who, though unique among the blacks, definitely leans towards the Horde; overcoming your corruption is a recurring theme.
This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.
Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.
You all seem to forget Kalecgos is canonically an Alliance member and so, the blue dragonflight is ruled by an Alliance member.
The blue dragons would never side with the Horde.
Last edited by elbleuet; 2022-04-08 at 02:25 PM.
"If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"
Kalec is ostensibly part of the Alliance by being part of the Six of Dalaran, who are allied with the Alliance - but that affiliation doesn't necessarily extend to the Blue Dragonflight as an organization, nor does the Blue flight view themselves as beholden to the Alliance in any sense. There's a distinct divide between Kalec in his half-elven guise as an Archmage of Dalaran, and Kalecgos the Dragon Aspect of the Blue Dragonflight.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
True. And Kalec is the kind of guy that would not expect his people to die for his personal attachment to one side. He himself would likely fight with the Alliance (at the very least to have Jaina's back) but he might order the other Blues to stay out of it.
Then again, the Horde has before proven that they do not care about neutrality if the dragons have something they want, so Kalec might also decide that not picking a side is just leaving his people vulnerable.
I hope they dont do faction specific and do it race specific. Ysera and the emeral dream are not really connected to any of the races that arent the usual druidic ones.
Similarly it'd be weird if the black dragonflight doesnt connect with the dwarves given that it is very specific to the earth
It's a question that's got an extremely easy answer. If they had to pick one or the other, the Alliance is a natural and logical pick for the vast majority of them. The orcs enslaved the red dragons, the night elves have a deep connection to the green dragonflight and the supposed new leader of the blue dragonflight was in a relationship with Jaina. The Alliance defended Azeroth, which was the dragonflight's job in the first place, in the First and Second War. The Alliance also fought against the Jailer's pawn, Sylvanas, in the Fourth War, whose Horde - save for a small group of rebels lead by Saurfang - helped sow chaos and war across all of Azeroth, untill she directly told them that they mean absolutely nothing to her at the very end of the war.
In other words, the Alliance has done the dragonflights' job across three major world conflicts, whose goal was to ultimately bring ruin to Azeroth, as the definite protagonist force. On top of that, its individual races have a more meaningful and deeper bond with the individual dragonflights, while also never having pulled a Dragonmaw move on any of them.
Last edited by Magnagarde; 2022-04-09 at 02:37 PM.
Black Dragons would partially depend on who leads them to me, Ebonhorn is strongly associated with the Highmountain, and is Horde affiliated right now, so if he leads I could see them being Horde. Wrathion is interesting as despite his friendship with Anduin, his actions generally seem to be pro-Orc - he initially backed the Horde until Garrosh "turned half his Horde against him" and in War Crimes he helped free Garrosh believing it was in the best interest of protecting Azeroth, even knocking Anduin out because he believed that to be the case. I think they're the 'most likely' to join the Horde if they had to, but that's not particularly saying much.
Bronze Dragons would side however they must to 'protect the timelines', if that is the Horde somehow, they'll join Horde. I have no idea how that would be, but at the same time why would they help the Horde recruit the Mag'har unless it was somehow also fitting their goals. Perhaps with the appearance of Salandria, the Blood Elf Orphan, we'll also see Dornaa, the Draenei orphan, when we took them to the Caverns of Time, the guards nearly attacked them both, but are stopped as "This girl has done nothing, and will not be held accountable for what she might do, or fail to do, in the future."
Ultimately I don't really think of much reason for the other three flights to join the Horde unless Blizzard starts to attribute player actions to the Horde to justify it, however I can think of one thing that might give them pause to join the Alliance (same with the Bronze and ESPECIALLY Black). The Void Elves. The Void is connected to the Old Gods, which has done a great deal of harm to the Dragonflights, especially the Black since their Aspect was turned mad by the Void. They might be hesitant to join forces with those who constantly battle the whispers of the Void, or those who trust these people, as at any moment, the Void could gain control, corrupt them, etc.
I don't see them ever joining one side over the other though, they typically are portrayed 'above' the Horde vs Alliance conflict, the handful of times Dragons get involved in the story its either they're working with both sides, or individuals are associating with one faction (Kalecgos/Ebonhorn).
Why not? Horde Council already looks filled with Alliance members, and to keep "Horde" in check from their lets destroy forest attempts Green Dragon must take reigns and rule these savages if they can't control themselfs, image what if no one gonna do it? new Garrosh ? once again?
Kalecgos was technically an Alliance member, perhaps, but is not the Kirin Tor largely neutral due to Khadgar and his refusal to participate in the faction war, and Jaina still refusing to rejoin their ruling Council?
I think that the red and green dragonflights would go for Alliance if push came to shove, they've helped the Alliance and especially the night elves in the past, whereas the bronze and black dragonflights would go for Horde; I think Wrathion would stay neutral honestly, especially now that the Light-enthused Turalyon is leading Stormwind. Kalecgos and some of his followers would join Jaina in the Alliance, while the blue dragons of Azsuna would side with Suramar, the nightborne and by extension, the Horde, thereby dividing the blue dragonflight.
"You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"
Only ones I see of the former going Horde is DeathWing like he did already but to use them against the others.
of the current, Wrathion admits to betting on the Horde in MoP and then again assists in creating the IronHorde. The Bronze have aided the Horde to preserve time in the past, against the Infinite, and Kairoz himself saw the Orc horde as the best solution to stop the Legion. Then you even have a the guy who helped the Horde get more Mag'har Orcs, praise a version of Garrosh... but i still think they'd be neutral.
They also have a connection with Dalaran and humans are the only magic using race in the series that doesn't suffer side effects(bias much?) and if you're using Wrathion, wouldn't you include Kalecgos who's girlfriend(ex?) is horde hating Jaina Proudmore?
Last edited by MikeBogina; 2022-04-21 at 01:06 AM.
"You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"
I have no doubt the Horde's past atrocities towards the dragons will be completely ignored via the awesome powers of writer ignorance and their Andy hipster philosophy. If they were remotely consistent, most of Azeroth should want the orcs dead.
Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/
The problem I see is that the Horde don't really have any connections to the Dragonflight leadership outside of Thrall:
Wrathion is currently the main contender for leader of the Black Dragonflight (what's left of it anyhow), and he is only really on friendly terms with Anduin. Although if Ebonhorn were to become the leader, then this would obviously change things; however, it should be noted that the history of the Black Dragons working with the Horde have been largely in a subservient role (i.e.: the relation between Dragons and the Dragonmaw, who took these intelligent creatures and bent them to their will). I don't know if Ebonhorn would be able to work with the Horde if the Dragonmaw still being part of it, let alone convince other members of the flight.
Kalecgos is the current leader of the Blue Dragonflight, but is also a member of the Council of Six which makes him a de facto a member of the Alliance, alongside his relationship with major Alliance characters like Jaina. It wouldn't be a large leap to say that he could also likely convince the rest of the Blue Dragonflight to side with Dalaran and help the mortal races better understand how to wield arcane magic responsibly, pointing to the recent and egregious misuses of magic by both the Blood Elves (reliance on the Well of Eternity, creating a Void God by torturing a Naaru) and the Nightborne (addiction to Arcane magic, overusing Arcane magic to the point of polluting their environment, blatant abuse of Titan artifacts at the Nightwell).
Merithra is a bit of a wild card because of how little she has done so far; however, her adopted brother is Cenarius who has a particular closeness to the Night Elves, has a difficult history with the Orcs of the current Horde (which encompasses clans like the Warsong clan), and would likely be able to sway her in that direction if battle lines were drawn (and people were forced to choose).
Alexstraza likely wouldn't choose a side given her role as the Lifebinder and caring for all life. That said, past trauma with other Orc clans may change this, as resulting behaviors of trauma are not always entirely rational, and knowing the history of Horde aggression (the Kor'kron and the idolization of the Old Horde by Orcish youth) may sway her in the direction of the Alliance.
Nozdormu likely wouldn't choose a side given his proclivity of being relatively detached from the concerns of Azeroth and more focused on his duty to the timeways. That is, so long as you don't fuck with time to a major degree, Nozdormu is OK with you, which might make him a little wary of the Nightborne who used the Eye of Aman'thul to meddle with time a bit, but so long as they're not abusing chronal magic still there should be no problems.
- - - Updated - - -
I don't know if this is formally the case or not. The Council of Six was not unanimous in allowing Dalaran to be used as a neutral staging ground for the fight against the Legion, which is why Jaina left (believe it to be a betrayal). I don't believe she ever formally gave up her position, andit may be possible that she could re-assert her dominant role in the Council of Six again, and would probably be supported by the Silver Covenant if she did so. That said, it's very likely that if battle lines were drawn, the Council of Six would near unanimously side with the Alliance, especially given that only Kalecgos and Khadgar believe in the Horde, with the other members either being wary of them or outright hostile.
Also, just another thing, the seeming neutrality of the Kirin Tor is not the same as them not being part of the Alliance. A good example of this is Malfurion being neutral throughout Cataclysm, but still holding a leadership position amongst the Alliance. While this is, quite frankly, a horrible conflict of interest for these neutral parties (both in their ability to influence their faction in favor of neutrality and their ability to influence their neutral faction towards the Alliance or Horde), the fact is that these situations do exist in WoW.
Last edited by Magical Mudcrab; 2022-04-25 at 03:50 AM.
Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief
A big part of Wrathion's arc for Dragonflight is him getting closer to Ebonhorn/Ebyssian, with the two coming to terms with their own upbringings and accepting one another as brothers - and since Ebonhorn/Ebyssian has a strong connection to the Horde through Mayla and Baine, this would even out Wrathion's connection to Anduin and the Alliance. Beyond the Dragonmaw impressing black drakes into their service, there's also the historical incident where Deathwing himself allied with the Horde (Teron Gorefiend in this case) in WC2: BtDP, as the Black Dragonflight and the Horde joined forces to acquire powerful magical relics from Alliance hands (the Scepter of Sargeras, the Eye of Dalaran, and the Book of Medivh) to bring back to Draenor. Deathwing also made Draenor a home away from home for some time - which is why we encounter a number of his brood there, such as Sabellian, during TBC. Needless to say, the Black flight and the Horde have a number of connections and tenuous alliances throughout Warcraft's history.
Dalaran as a nation-state strives more toward neutrality than it does partisanship, with some notable lapses in judgment here and there. Kalecgos, despite his romance with Jaina, has always been rather non-partisan, to the point that this actually ended his and Jaina's relationship when she became increasingly partisan following Theramore's destruction. In that vein, I don't think Kalecgos is really a de facto member of the Alliance - he'd take a nuanced approach, and as their Aspect, he's always allowed members of his flight to take their own paths. A prominent Blue dragon actually has a strong friendship with the current Nightborne leadership, and the current leading Blues of the flight also fought against their old Aspect Malygos on the topic of mortal's use (or misuse) of Arcane magic. Kalecgos is for mortal use of magic, and with that philosophy is more likely to want to help steward and teach mortals safe ways to use magic as opposed to wanting to censure or enter into conflict with them over it.
Merithra and the Green flight would have a stronger affiliation, and sense of shared values, with the Alliance - especially the Night Elves, obviously.
Given the thread title and the implication of being "forced" to choose a side, I'd say Alexstrasza and the Reds skew more strongly toward the Alliance than the Horde, especially given the history they have with the Old Horde, which is understandably not easily forgotten or forgiven.
The Bronze flight is the hardest to pin down, and if "forced" would either be a personal distinction per individual member or enforced neutrality and/or conflict with whatever is supposedly forcing the matter. Given Anachronos' freely-given aid to the Horde when it came to recruitment of the Mag'har, I'd say their concerns rise well above petty factional or partisan conflicts and more toward esoteric concerns neither faction knows or likely can understand. They'll react to any threat to the true timeline, no matter which faction may be at fault, and probably not caring save for correcting the issue.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
The problem is that virtually all of their alliances have been almost exclusively to the dragonflight's detriment, either due to the Orcs aggressively trying to dominate them or due to the Horde failing and leaving them vulnerable, which in the case of Sabellian is what has allowed Gruul to become such a threat to him and his brood. That said, I do agree with Ebonhorn having significantly (would increase font size for emphasis, but that's super obnoxious) closer ties with the Tauren as he's been with the Highmountain for 10,000 (Blizzard's favorite number) years and if he either took control over the flight (which, frankly, I think he would be a much better leader of the Black Dragonflight) or gained influence with Wrathion, this could heavily impact whether the Black Dragonflight goes with the Alliance or Horde. Though perhaps this is also a reason why the dragonflight would remain neutral.
Ebonhorn's connection is with the Highmountain Tauren, whose strongest connection in the Horde is with the Tauren. As we know, Baine is very vocal about his belief in Anduin and having good relations with the Alliance, which I think compliments Wrathion's longstanding relationship with Anduin. Perhaps, regardless of who takes charge, this would put the Black Dragonflight in the unique position as being a bridge between the Alliance and Horde, and members of both which seek peace. This would also be an ironic change from their original aggressive disposition to one of peacekeepers.
The problem here is that Dalaran only professes neutrality when necessary. The Council of Six were not unanimous in their decision to allow the Horde to enter, and this was in the face of the Burning Legion. While the vote was 4-2, the only member who really trusted the Horde was Khadgar. Other members like Modera and Vargoth voted in favor of allowing the Horde into Dalaran, but also have histories of mistrusting the Horde, both having taken active measures as members of the Kirin Tor Offensive against the Horde. This is why I noted Malfurion as an example in another post, the current Council of Six are neutral because they understand the stakes in Legion transcend the Alliance and Horde conflict, but will ultimately side with the Alliance in the case of active war, as they have done so in the past. This is why I would say that Kalecgos is currently de facto a member of the Alliance, because if he wants to maintain a position in their governing body, he'll essentially be drafted into that position (albeit, I will admit, he has tried to give Jaina her position back previously). That said, he could also pull out of the Kirin Tor in a time of war, similarly to what Jaina did, although this would leave the worlds most powerful collective of Arcane wielding mortals unchecked (although, as we've seen so far, they're unlikely to be too reckless).Dalaran as a nation-state strives more toward neutrality than it does partisanship, with some notable lapses in judgment here and there. Kalecgos, despite his romance with Jaina, has always been rather non-partisan, to the point that this actually ended his and Jaina's relationship when she became increasingly partisan following Theramore's destruction. In that vein, I don't think Kalecgos is really a de facto member of the Alliance - he'd take a nuanced approach, and as their Aspect, he's always allowed members of his flight to take their own paths. A prominent Blue dragon actually has a strong friendship with the current Nightborne leadership, and the current leading Blues of the flight also fought against their old Aspect Malygos on the topic of mortal's use (or misuse) of Arcane magic. Kalecgos is for mortal use of magic, and with that philosophy is more likely to want to help steward and teach mortals safe ways to use magic as opposed to wanting to censure or enter into conflict with them over it.
Regarding the Blue Dragonflight at large, I don't see them taking side with the Horde. Consider that the majority of the Blue Dragonflight was in support of Malygos and his belief that mortals' reckless use of magic would endanger Azeroth (in this case specifically, that it would call the Legion back). I can imagine the dragons who have sympathy for Malygos' concerns allying with the Kirin Tor as for all their problems they at the very least don't outwardly abuse Arcane magic with reckless abandon. In comparison, we see in-game examples of the Blood Elves, the Nightborne, and even the Orcs and Goblins through the Mana Bomb doing things that largely justify Malygos' mistrust. Even if isolated pockets like the Azurewing could be convinced to help the Horde, I just don't see how the flight would ever agree to work with people who abuse magic in as blatant a manner as has been seen.
Although, perhaps to counter my own point, the Horde's inability to regulate their use of magic might actually be a reason why Kalecgos, or a faction of the Blue Dragonflight, decide to join the Horde. If the Blue Dragonflight believed the Kirin Tor would not recklessly use magic during the war and did not need oversight, then it might make sense for them to join the Horde as a means to keep them in check (i.e.: we'll give you military strength so long as you regulate your use of magic and we recieve a degree of veto power). Unsure if it would play out like that, though.
Yeah, I think this is something everyone can agree on. The only way I can even conceive of them choosing a side is if they knew that someone was going to use chronal magic that would damage the timeways and that their involvement could stop it.The Bronze flight is the hardest to pin down, and if "forced" would either be a personal distinction per individual member or enforced neutrality and/or conflict with whatever is supposedly forcing the matter. Given Anachronos' freely-given aid to the Horde when it came to recruitment of the Mag'har, I'd say their concerns rise well above petty factional or partisan conflicts and more toward esoteric concerns neither faction knows or likely can understand. They'll react to any threat to the true timeline, no matter which faction may be at fault, and probably not caring save for correcting the issue.
Last edited by Magical Mudcrab; 2022-04-25 at 01:47 PM.
Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief