10.0 should remove the timer from Mythic+ dungeons...

[StillMcfuu]

I think there is room to have 2 versions of M+, one timed and another non-timed that gives the same rewards. This way the MDI can continue the way it has and you can also have a more at your own pace experience.

[azshanna]

2 months ago I came back to game after so many years since WoD! So basically I havent done any m+ before shadowlands! Yet Im doing 15s on my main and some 10s on my alt!

Theres nth super complex in m+ except avoiding harmful spells which probably you ignore bcz u dont care and it makes u feel m+ is inaccessible! Also if you dont like the timer you can ignore it and do it at your own pace! I did a nw10 in a 4 men group in sth like 1:20" because we wanted the loot! no1 stops you for doing the same

Also even doing 15s doesnt require much gear or skill! i was in a group with a 238 dk tank and a 240 boomie! the only high geared were me and the dps lock, yet we made it.

[Nightshade711]

Instead they should just add more cosmetic rewards to M+.

Like transmog if you time all dungeons at +20. (Or reach whatever M+ rating equivalent would be)
Transmog could even be an additional “mythic/elite” variant.
Raiders and PvPers get their own special colors, might as well let M+ players get one too since it’s so popular. (Or at very least let them get the Mythic raid appearances)

[Bladesyphon]

I'm still of the mind that rather than doing away with Mythic+, just do away with the timelimit, and instead impose a death counter instead. Your rating is determined by how many deaths your party incurs over the course of the dungeon, rather than how fast you clear it. It'd give Blizzard the flexibility to create larger, more complex dungeons that don't have to be beholden to a speed-runnable nature, and it would also allow them to make higher tier Mythic + levels much, much more difficult, where rather than speeding through the dungeon, careful pulling and managing of trash and bosses is rewarded.

I'm sure a lot of people would hate that system just as much as the speed run system, but for me personally, I like the idea of having a rating be based on how many deaths you took in the dungeon, rather than a time limit.

[klaps_05]

This is the problem with people these days, they only see things as exclusives. How about keep m+ as it is AND add challenge modes for +15s with the bronze/silver/gold rewards? You dont need to remove a great working system to add another great system.

[Thunderball]

There's nothing wrong with M+. The biggest reason it has popularity is the timelimit. Yea, rewards are pretty lacking at the top level, but at lower level you get mythic raid level rewards for much easier content, so I dont see an issue there.

[RageofMenyina]

I think it's a great alternative for those who don't have 4+ hours nightly to raid. But I don't think removing the timer is a good idea either unless you're going to develop other skill-based challenge to them. They tried bringing back complex cc and the like with Cata and it ended up backfiring on them from the casual fans because of it. The timer isn't the best thing in the world, but I think it's an added challenge.

[Caerrona]

I think there is room to have 2 versions of M+, one timed and another non-timed that gives the same rewards. This way the MDI can continue the way it has and you can also have a more at your own pace experience.

The untimed version would either have to be scales WAY harder or cap at lfr loot.

There is no skill in waiting for cds every pull and ccing every mob but one.

[Toybox]

I think there is room to have 2 versions of M+, one timed and another non-timed that gives the same rewards. This way the MDI can continue the way it has and you can also have a more at your own pace experience.

No-one is stopping you from doing a 2 hour key with friends & getting the same loot from it.

[Edlarel]

Score it like Torghast, so you can either finish it fast (via the timer) or clear it all. If somebody drops, you just have to kill a few more mobs to make it still work.

[Axaron]

mythic+ is dumb stop the modifiers and just make a crushingly difficult version and an normal versions. MAKE DUNGEONS GOOD AGAIN

[MrLachyG]

...and add Challenge Modes back to the game with cosmetic rewards for people who enjoy that speedrunning gameplay.

We can have both M+ and CMs in the game at the same time! M+ can be a more relaxed experience where tanks don't need to plan routes and people don't have to chainpull like its WOTLK. You can still do that if you want but I think many people would prefer if that wasn't the default setting.

For people who want that additional challenge you can have an entirely separate opt-in game mode with cool cosmetic rewards. You can even rotate which dungeons are available every season to spice things up, and add seasonal rewards.

Timed dungeons were never the core of the WOW experience, and it shouldn't be the primary way that people engage with group content. They are incredibly complex and inaccessible to casual players, and drive people to quit the game because there is no alternative.

Weren’t Challenge Mode dungeons timed? You’ve basically killed your own argument in your post

[zhorteye]

...and add Challenge Modes back to the game with cosmetic rewards for people who enjoy that speedrunning gameplay.

We can have both M+ and CMs in the game at the same time! M+ can be a more relaxed experience where tanks don't need to plan routes and people don't have to chainpull like its WOTLK. You can still do that if you want but I think many people would prefer if that wasn't the default setting.

For people who want that additional challenge you can have an entirely separate opt-in game mode with cool cosmetic rewards. You can even rotate which dungeons are available every season to spice things up, and add seasonal rewards.

Timed dungeons were never the core of the WOW experience, and it shouldn't be the primary way that people engage with group content. They are incredibly complex and inaccessible to casual players, and drive people to quit the game because there is no alternative.

wait.. you chainpulled back in wrath? What kind of sick animal would do that outside of halls of reflection?

[wushootaki]

Blizzard should take a page from FF14, and rework timewalking so that every dungeon is relevant content (either you scale down, or dungeon scales up) --- and then add all dungeons to m+. For the people who get bored quickly, they have many more dungeons to run --- This also makes content last longer and brings old content into relevancy.

[Biomega]

Weren’t Challenge Mode dungeons timed? You’ve basically killed your own argument in your post

I think what they mean is, instead of timed M+ have timed CM which is cosmetics only - so for any dungeon that drops loot, there wouldn't be a timer; but there'd still be a timer for challenging dungeons that only reward cosmetics.

Which is a thing I understand some people want, but is unfortunately just a case of "you think you do, but you don't". It would either have to be very basic loot, meaning the entire idea of M+ as an alternative to raid gearing becomes moot; or it would result in people doing extremely degenerate shit to get the good loot.

Timers exist for good reason: they limit the scope of an activity, and they force people to perform well. The last thing you want is give people and excuse to perform badly or waste inordinate amounts of time.

Now, that being said, I totally think M+ could use some improvements. Having your keys ruined again and again because a Meter Andy pulled 3 extra packs and then left when someone died is not a good feeling. But that can be addressed in other ways. I've long said to just remove M+ keys and replace them with a simple drop-down menu; effectively how GRs work in Diablo III. Select any level up to the highest level you've unlocked, no fuss, no muss. Who gives a shit if you're doing the same dungeon over and over; people already look for that when chaining weekly count. Or if it's REALLY a big problem, add something like a rotating bonus dungeon that's different for each player and gives some extra Valor, or whatever. They really need to learn where curbing abuse is a big deal, and where it isn't. People running the keys THEY want to run? That's not something you need to stop. Ask the high-end M+ people how fun it is to try and get the right key to bump personal records on.

[zhorteye]

Blizzard should take a page from FF14, and rework timewalking so that every dungeon is relevant content (either you scale down, or dungeon scales up) --- and then add all dungeons to m+. For the people who get bored quickly, they have many more dungeons to run --- This also makes content last longer and brings old content into relevancy.

Theres a simple reason why they wont do this though: Not all dungeons in the game were designed with m+ in mind..
Unless they choose to go back and rework all Classic/cata/ TBC and Wrath dungeons, we wont ever get to see those as m+ dungeons. as they simply arent designed with that system in mind.

[Golang]

No, low keys with a huge timer exist already. There is no reason not to hit timer unless you are undergeared.

[rhorle]

They are incredibly complex and inaccessible to casual players, and drive people to quit the game because there is no alternative.

You can get M+ 8/9 gear from doing the full cypher research. Casual players can easily get gear to make low keys easy. It is also silly to say that people quit the game because their is no alternative when in the past there was nothing at all. A non-timed M+ will hit a wall for the same people that are too afraid to do a timed run even when they can easily beat it.

Routes would still be planned. Chain pulling would happen when allowed but difficult packs would just mean waiting for cool downs to come up. Fast clears has been a thing since badge farming in TBC long before M+ was a thing. I think this is just another case of M+ being used as a scapegoat for whatever the real issue is with out fully understanding what M+ brings or what a non-timed alternative would cause playstyles to become.

[cparle87]

WoW definitely feels more like a hack and slash, opposed to an RPG. I think M+ has heavily contributed to that feeling. Most people that raid and do M+ spend more hours in M+ to fill up their vaults and to hunt the odd trinket/weapon, than actually raiding. World content just doesn't have a proper existence in today's WoW.

Considering outdoor content is as good as normal raiding for most slots and close with the rest, along with the fact you can get all the essentials like double legos, conduits, and such without ever having to group up I'd have to disagree.

[StillMcfuu]

The untimed version would either have to be scales WAY harder or cap at lfr loot.

There is no skill in waiting for cds every pull and ccing every mob but one.

Doesn't have to be harder, it's just not a challenge mode, can use the same keys, but it's at your own pace, no timer. Keys are pass or fail, not timed. Timed can still exist with its own leaderboard.