those suggestion to lower the challenge of the game to the lowest possible level to make the worst players feel good about thesmelves need to stop.
those suggestion to lower the challenge of the game to the lowest possible level to make the worst players feel good about thesmelves need to stop.
"El Psy Kongroo!" Hearthstone Moderator
I completely disagree, dumbing the game down further removes any goals for casuals, this is a good goal for casuals and if you don't know how to use google and watch videos on how to run mythic dungeons, you should be herbing/mining and buying carries
Also, i'm a casual and I can do M +15 pretty easily
Last edited by ketsui; 2022-04-14 at 02:26 AM.
It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia
The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.
yep, timers should not be a thing in any part of the game unless the reward is simply where you place on a list. In my opinion, timers are lazy game design to make things harder and encourages some of the worst parts of the community to come out. If people want to form a rush group the reward is getting more content fast, if others take their time waiting for cooldowns awesome for them.
Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22
Mythic+ is pretty easy up to M16. I took my lowest geared Tank this season to KSM by buying all the greens in ZM then did all M0s befoe doing four M8s for 2 weeks, then a mix of four M10/12. Last week, I did a mix of 10 M15/16. This week a did a couple of 17s and got KSM. In between, I killed world bosses and did ZM quests. Never did any raids or LFR. Got double 291 leggo before pushing M15s.
I have 3 KSM tanks now and working on my 4th. All without any tier pieces. You can time M15s with 255 ilvl with ease. People make it harder than it seem because they watched some YouTube videos of M20 and want to copy it. M15 is literally like a M0 when the expansion was out when we were all 185 ilvl doing it. Just go at a steady pace and pull 1 pack at a time. Don't die.
The current iteration? No. But the mission table overall is a succesful design. It has been around for four expansions now and offers small drips of content. They should take it back to more the WoD garrison method though as the Shadowlands version is to annoying to do without an addon. It is great to allow small "nearly passive" rewards as well. The herbs and enchanting maps were a great source of gold.
It really does seem like you are confusing "I don't like it" with "it isn't succesful" going off of you claiming M+ is the worst system ever.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
Honestly no way to know. 1) I would never judge a feature as a success or failure based on anything I read here or on reddit. 2) We don't have any clue at all how many players do anything with it. 3) We don't know Blizzard's criteria for success which in the end is the only criteria that matters.
"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
People seem to forget that things can be difficult without having to be mindlessly fast. All a timer does is make it more challenging than it needs to be because you have to play more careless than you probably would otherwise. Brainless rushing is not something that should be encouraged.
How will it be a challenge without a timer? What would stop players from waiting for cooldowns to be up every pull just to push higher DPS/Heals? People will still try to find the fastest route because the concept of rushing has nothing to do with M+. People just don't want to wait around for hours for things anymore. The highest 9 groups have done a +28 key so simply removing the timer would easily lower the challenge.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
you do realise you can spend a week in a m+ dungeon if thats what gets your rocks off AND still get loot right???right?
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it 100% keeps many people subbed,many people play only m+ and dont even raid,in my guild that did raid boosts we had friends that didnt join our easier raid boosts and instead did m+ boosts
Blizzard could always assign some rating system to M+ similar to Torgahst. Kill all the mobs for extra points. Complete the dungeon quickly for extra points. Penalize score based on deaths. Scale the score based on the key level. Give bonuses for certain amounts of percentage of the total time in combat or having the group stay above 50% health for a certain amount of time in combat or for interrupting a certain percentage of casts, for taking less than X avoidable damage, etc. There are plenty of metrics that could be applied beyond just "Finished this dungeon this quickly."
I would love to see what a M+ Shadow Labs would look like. What timer would you even assign to something like that?
What do you mean that there's no way to track who engages with the mission table? There are literally achievements for that. Wowhead's achievement tracking shows 64% of profiles have run 100 missions. Additionally, 16% of profiles have three adventurers at level 60. Meanwhile, 5% of profiles have Shadowlands Keystone Master Season Three, and 19% earned Keystone Master in Season Two. Keystone Master for Season Two was only slightly more successful than leveling adventurers, by these metrics.
Look, I've done both. Here is the issue with CM's: one and done. That's it. You get a neat mount, cool transmog (I liked the outfits better), and a portal right to the instance. The portal was useless unless thanks to LFG. The need to be highly skilled in one class is the limiter there as well. I would have enjoyed getting them on more then 1 character, but getting groups to run them to gold even the first time was a challenge.
M+ is an alternative to raiding. Doing better gets you better gear that is closely in line with raids. It IS an alternative. The alternative to the higher end rewards being Mythic raids, which arguable, see far fewer people participating in. Without a key that increases the challenge, there wouldn't be a real way to get good gear if you don't raid. Even as someone who just logged in for a few hours, M+ was great. I could easily find a group at any time since the constant addition of better gear and a weekly reward help keep it alive.
The timer is fine. If people cant manage it or turn away from WoW because of a timer, then they don't want to really play any kind of challenging game. Timers have been a part of dungeons, even since BC. They had dungeons that if you beat the timer, you got extra loot. So this isn't even a new concept. Just one they expanded upon.
Hey I know everyone is aging/balding and some of you might not be as good as before due to that or don't have the time anymore yada yada.
But don't ruin it for the people still interested, will ya?