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  1. #1

    Shadow Priest for 10.0 suggestions

    I really believe they need to revamp this spec back to WotLK style of gameplay with some slight tweaks. I know it wasn’t the most flashy play style, but it was simple and super effective. It would mean getting rid of the Insanity power bar and to make Devouring Plague a basic part of our DoT rotation.
    Ultimately they need to make our DoTs stronger.

    Another change I could see is make Vampiric Embrace a very niche cooldown where using it makes your abilities stronger (flat DPS cooldown) and also heals the raid at the same time, with the healing ramping up as you do more damage. With that it does kind of sound broken, but maybe you make it a gigachad CD and have it on 3-4 minutes. After that, make Shadowfiend a minor DPS CD that is on 1.5 to 2min (make a talent to reduce it).

    And one more thing, bring back the WotLK mind flay appearance and sound! That was incredible and spooky sounding lol. Or at the least make a glyph for the old appearance.

    What are your all’s thoughts?

  2. #2
    From both PVE and PVP Prespectives as a Shadowpriest:

    1)I would keep Insanity, have 3 Dots in the form of SWP,VT and DP on an equal duration and damage.
    2)Then create a DOT Spread mechanic with Mind Sear that is able to spread all 3 dots on various targets and the spell getting turned from a channeling one that renders you unmovable into a 1.5 Casting one like Mindblast with a cooldown like Mind Blast.
    3)Turn Mindflay from a channeling DOT into an instant Lower Damage DOT than the other 3 that is slowing the target. The class deserves a spell that slows the target down while you are able to kite with a cooldown like Mind Blast.
    4)Then I would have brought back Mind Spike that could synergise with Mindblast and the DOTS cause we need a spell that would fill the gap when Voidform and Void Bolt are not available.
    5)Remove that shitty Power Word Shield. It barely holds one hit.Instead I would create a Shadow Word Shield for the Shadowpriest that would be much stronger or create a push with daze effect when popped to opponents with a cooldown of course.
    6)Dispersion must be redesigned to be on par with the other immunity effects of other classes.
    7)Finally I feel the Shadowpriest should have a better type Psychic Scream that doesn't break that easily.

  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk czarek's Avatar
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    Dun know how shadow works in the past. Started playing shadow priest 1st time since vanilla just on 9.0. I do like it but in compare to other classes is just mind blowing how rotation looks like. Would be cool to make it more smooth and intuitive. Insanity is ok but im not it should work like power bar maybe more like rune? Or give some benefit when instanity is full filled. Sometimes isanity is just overdelivered.


    thats SP rotation looks like.


    thats other dps classes rotation (ive played war/mage/ele in SL so far)
    Last edited by czarek; 2022-04-22 at 01:20 PM.

  4. #4
    The Patient marathal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelz View Post
    I really believe they need to revamp this spec back to WotLK style of gameplay with some slight tweaks. I know it wasn’t the most flashy play style, but it was simple and super effective. It would mean getting rid of the Insanity power bar and to make Devouring Plague a basic part of our DoT rotation.
    Ultimately they need to make our DoTs stronger.

    Another change I could see is make Vampiric Embrace a very niche cooldown where using it makes your abilities stronger (flat DPS cooldown) and also heals the raid at the same time, with the healing ramping up as you do more damage. With that it does kind of sound broken, but maybe you make it a gigachad CD and have it on 3-4 minutes. After that, make Shadowfiend a minor DPS CD that is on 1.5 to 2min (make a talent to reduce it).

    And one more thing, bring back the WotLK mind flay appearance and sound! That was incredible and spooky sounding lol. Or at the least make a glyph for the old appearance.

    What are your all’s thoughts?
    I could see giving us a path in the talent tree to go with more of an old school Wrath style hybrid DPS build, or for those that enjoy the cutting edge Insanity style.

    A lot is going to depend on what they see the class/spec role as. For me, if it continues down the path of the last several expansions, I don't know if I will even bother buying or continuing to sub.

  5. #5
    Wrath had some good aspects. The tankier version of Shadow would be a nice come back, especially if it meant the return of Vampiric Embrace as a toggle that would just stay on. I also miss that hydrid aspect where I just had access to all my heals, at a price. I don't miss being a mana battery, but I do miss there being a semi-unique reason to bring Shadow beyond just damage. I really dislike the modern version of Vampiric Embrace though.

    I'm not sure how I feel about insanity. It seemed to make sense with the Artifact Weapon, but ever since it's just felt like a mess. The only time the insanity system, and things like surrender to madness, really felt good, was when they were over tuned in Legion. Ever since then it's felt like too much work, and too much sacrifice, for either the same or worse that other classes/specs can manage. I mean seriously, in Legion if you killed yourself with surrender at least you killed yourself knowing you were going to break the damage meter. Later on it became, "kill yourself to do the same or less damage as others." Dying is a pretty big sacrifice not to mess up. And yeah, I know in Shadowlands we've seen a big change (for the better) and surrender is a different beast entirely (again) but sometimes I feel like the Shadow Priest in its current form would only really make sense as its own class. Not a specialization of Priest.

    So what I really want shadow to get back to is feeling like a "Shadow Priest" not a Void Mage. I know some of you love that Void Mage style. Just like I know some people loved the Mind Spike playstyle as an alternative to the mind flay focused play style. I'm all for variety, but we don't have that now. We have Void Mage or bust, albeit one of the better renditions of Void Mage at least.

    I still don't like modern Vampiric Embrace though.

  6. #6
    I really liked the Cata Shadow. Mana and Shadoworbs and with Shadoworbs you can use Stun and Devouring Plague. Simple, but fun.

  7. #7
    The Patient marathal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    I really liked the Cata Shadow. Mana and Shadoworbs and with Shadoworbs you can use Stun and Devouring Plague. Simple, but fun.
    I think those at the bleeding edge considered it too little of a challenge. It did have a flow to it, and it you could remain still for any period of time you could really put out decent numbers, even if you weren't very good. I recall doing the Deathwing final fight and having someone in the group calling for me and one other to be kicked because I was 5th for heals. Someone pointed out that I was 5th for heals because I was 2nd in DPS and Damage. Good times.

    I don't know if it is something as simple as they just don't have an idea of how to treat the spec, or if it is more involved under the hood issues where tuning for all classes are less difficult if we are all build spend DPS. Guess we will see.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by czarek View Post
    Dun know how shadow works in the past. Started playing shadow priest 1st time since vanilla just on 9.0. I do like it but in compare to other classes is just mind blowing how rotation looks like. Would be cool to make it more smooth and intuitive. Insanity is ok but im not it should work like power bar maybe more like rune? Or give some benefit when instanity is full filled. Sometimes isanity is just overdelivered.


    thats SP rotation looks like.


    thats other dps classes rotation (ive played war/mage/ele in SL so far)
    yep this is why i switched to healer, Spriest in ST is fine but playing it in M+ with aoe is confusing and clunky on many levels (thats how i experience it atleast). making it easier to play in M+ would be welcome, mages for example have nice aoe abilities, warriors easily weave it in into their rotation with whirlwind.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelz View Post
    I really believe they need to revamp this spec back to WotLK style of gameplay with some slight tweaks. I know it wasn’t the most flashy play style, but it was simple and super effective. It would mean getting rid of the Insanity power bar and to make Devouring Plague a basic part of our DoT rotation.
    Ultimately they need to make our DoTs stronger.

    Another change I could see is make Vampiric Embrace a very niche cooldown where using it makes your abilities stronger (flat DPS cooldown) and also heals the raid at the same time, with the healing ramping up as you do more damage. With that it does kind of sound broken, but maybe you make it a gigachad CD and have it on 3-4 minutes. After that, make Shadowfiend a minor DPS CD that is on 1.5 to 2min (make a talent to reduce it).

    And one more thing, bring back the WotLK mind flay appearance and sound! That was incredible and spooky sounding lol. Or at the least make a glyph for the old appearance.

    What are your all’s thoughts?
    You cant just make dots stronger without making something else weaker, and adding back the WotLK style DP means shrinking even more of the power pie for the other dots.
    Dont bother asking for certain spells to be stronger without compromising other ones and consider the overall effect of splitting the power between multiple abilities.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    I really liked the Cata Shadow. Mana and Shadoworbs and with Shadoworbs you can use Stun and Devouring Plague. Simple, but fun.
    That was the mop style.
    In cata, shadow orbs were a passive that increased your mind blast (or mind spike) damage based on how many you had, which was far superior to mop, because that was before the spec became a builder/spender type spec.

  11. #11
    First off, lets not have yet another class revamp, ok? We have, for the first time since MoP, a shadow spec that it's designed with some planning done beforehand, so let's not throw a tantrum for no reason.

    Secondly, the biggest problem shadow has right now is the difference in rotation (rotation saturation?) between being in VF and not. Outside of it you barely have things to press, especially on single target, but once you're in VF, you're closing in on being GCD locked. And that is only made worse on AoE, where you have even more low CD spells to keep track of. Couple that up with inherent complexity bump of playing a dot class in AoE scenario, and you end up with a spec that can both feel empty and boring, and overloaded and bloated. Often during the same fight.

    Still, I would take that over the disgrace we had in previous 3 expansions.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Echeyakee View Post
    First off, lets not have yet another class revamp, ok? We have, for the first time since MoP, a shadow spec that it's designed with some planning done beforehand, so let's not throw a tantrum for no reason.

    Secondly, the biggest problem shadow has right now is the difference in rotation (rotation saturation?) between being in VF and not. Outside of it you barely have things to press, especially on single target, but once you're in VF, you're closing in on being GCD locked. And that is only made worse on AoE, where you have even more low CD spells to keep track of. Couple that up with inherent complexity bump of playing a dot class in AoE scenario, and you end up with a spec that can both feel empty and boring, and overloaded and bloated. Often during the same fight.

    Still, I would take that over the disgrace we had in previous 3 expansions.
    For the most part it just feels like shadow just needs an Ae rotation redesign. You have to push so many buttons compared to other specs, and its completely wild and unintuitive. This on top of needing to manage VT, which frankly is already a pretty big negative since most melee classes and other specs can just hit one button and instantly pump out AE dmg with no setup.

    Seems like you really either need mind sear to do real damage or perhaps let Sn apply all dots on the target. I imagine #2 would be more likely, and there's no reason you couldn't balance those numbers to work once shadowflame prism is gone. Shadow would be back to to the ghost spewing class but without all the horrid buildup of BFA

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    I really liked the Cata Shadow. Mana and Shadoworbs and with Shadoworbs you can use Stun and Devouring Plague. Simple, but fun.
    Thats MoP/WoD, not Cata.

    Cata was just a better version of WotLK with shadow orbs as a passive resource that increased MB and DoT dmg + Dark Archangel as a Dps CD.


    Ironically, current SL Shadow is basically a much more complex version of the MoP Shadow that you say you liked. Both use VT/SW:P, MB as short CD nuke, DP as an active spender, and MF as filler. Dark Thoughts is also directly brought back from a talent we had back then that had a chance to reset the CD of MB and make it instant cast from SW:P ticks.

    Then SL has the VF CD window to further complicate things.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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  14. #14
    I think in terms of DPS Shadow is in a good spot now, I wouldn't mind if it stayed. But I would change a few things if I could. Like I would switch more damage back to the dots, and I would make shadowy apparitions a pseudo 4th dot, instead of activating with Mind Blast it would activate based on a % chance whenever any of the dots tick on a target. I would make Mind Blast a more hard hitting spell but in turn make it not that spammable, sort of a mini nuke button. I would also add a proc that makes Shadow Word Death not hurt you as well.

    Defense wise, I would change a few things. I think WotLK days of a ranged tank need to be brought back in some capacity. Vampiric Embrace should be a toggle/buff instead and to bring back Inner Fire. We already don't have any mobility buttons so I think we should really be more compensated with defense. The old way Dispersion heal worked would be a nice addition too (the healing buff doesn't go away when you cancel the spell).

    And a minor thing, but since they took Shadow Priest fantasy to a very different direction from the early days, I think some aesthetic changes would be nice to bring it more in line with what seems to be their current class fantasy design, aka the Void. So I would change stuff like Vampiric Touch to Shadow Word Syphon or something, and Devouring Plague to Shadow Word Decay maybe, and Vampiric Embrace to like Shadowy Embrace or whatnot.

    It just feels really out of place to have these diseases and vampiric connotations when the fantasy of the Shadow Priest has changed so much from that original direction.

  15. #15
    OVerhall Disc to be a tank spec

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelz View Post
    I really believe they need to revamp this spec back to WotLK style of gameplay with some slight tweaks. I know it wasn’t the most flashy play style, but it was simple and super effective. It would mean getting rid of the Insanity power bar and to make Devouring Plague a basic part of our DoT rotation.
    Ultimately they need to make our DoTs stronger.

    Another change I could see is make Vampiric Embrace a very niche cooldown where using it makes your abilities stronger (flat DPS cooldown) and also heals the raid at the same time, with the healing ramping up as you do more damage. With that it does kind of sound broken, but maybe you make it a gigachad CD and have it on 3-4 minutes. After that, make Shadowfiend a minor DPS CD that is on 1.5 to 2min (make a talent to reduce it).

    And one more thing, bring back the WotLK mind flay appearance and sound! That was incredible and spooky sounding lol. Or at the least make a glyph for the old appearance.

    What are your all’s thoughts?
    To me, this just sounds like salt on the wound. Not only did we get the silly Evoker class instead of a Shadow/Void class, now people ask for the Void-y flavored Shadowpriest to revert back to the boring old days.

  17. #17
    Shadow priest at the end of BfA was the best it has been in quite a while imo. It felt smooth, fun, not too clunky, with some meaningful choices in the talent tree.

    I know it has a lot to do with gear and haste levels etc, but that SP felt so great to play.

  18. #18
    You must be smoking that strong Zandalari shit, cause shadow was an absolute disaster zone in BFA.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelz View Post
    I really believe they need to revamp this spec back to WotLK style of gameplay with some slight tweaks. I know it wasn’t the most flashy play style, but it was simple and super effective. It would mean getting rid of the Insanity power bar and to make Devouring Plague a basic part of our DoT rotation.
    Ultimately they need to make our DoTs stronger.

    Another change I could see is make Vampiric Embrace a very niche cooldown where using it makes your abilities stronger (flat DPS cooldown) and also heals the raid at the same time, with the healing ramping up as you do more damage. With that it does kind of sound broken, but maybe you make it a gigachad CD and have it on 3-4 minutes. After that, make Shadowfiend a minor DPS CD that is on 1.5 to 2min (make a talent to reduce it).

    And one more thing, bring back the WotLK mind flay appearance and sound! That was incredible and spooky sounding lol. Or at the least make a glyph for the old appearance.

    What are your all’s thoughts?
    Didn't play much Shadowpriest before WoD(usually a warlock back then),but make Shadowpriest at the very least like it was in WoD. I really do not mind the orbs, i like the fluent gameplay and prefere orbs much more over this insanity bar, feels so clunky and when it comes to pvp, i would prefere shadowform to reduce dmg baseline again, no extra talent or stuff taken from the disc tree for migation.

    Dunno why so many people praise Legion so much, but that expansion completely ruined class balance for me, its the same deal with unholy dk or in general dks losing their presences and other stuff for boring simplicity, and demo locks got mutilated, for DH, too.

    Class changes should be exciting and improve classes and their specs, not take away and make stuff boring and predictable in the big meta.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Didn't play much Shadowpriest before WoD(usually a warlock back then),but make Shadowpriest at the very least like it was in WoD. I really do not mind the orbs, i like the fluent gameplay and prefere orbs much more over this insanity bar, feels so clunky and when it comes to pvp, i would prefere shadowform to reduce dmg baseline again, no extra talent or stuff taken from the disc tree for migation.

    Dunno why so many people praise Legion so much, but that expansion completely ruined class balance for me, its the same deal with unholy dk or in general dks losing their presences and other stuff for boring simplicity, and demo locks got mutilated, for DH, too.

    Class changes should be exciting and improve classes and their specs, not take away and make stuff boring and predictable in the big meta.
    Insanity or Orbs doesn't change anything though. Different name for the same result.

    The Shadowlands "base class" (without legendaries,soulbinds/conduits or 4set) is currently a copy of the MoP playstyle, and the continuation of that which was the AS playstyle in WoD, not the DoTWeaving of the early expansion or the pure MB/MSpike spam with the HFC classtrinket.

    The base rotation is idendtical now to what it was back then: Keep VT and SW:P up, use MB as your short CD nuke, cast DP to spend resources and fill with MF. There are still differences ofc, like back then we had MF:I as the big "skillgap ability" to boost our ST dmg, and now we have the big VF/PI CD window, on top of the various talents that made minor changes to our playstyle back then and now.

    You are asking for a change that Blizzard already made 2 years ago.



    If you are asking for DoTWeaving or DoTless MB/MSpike spam back on the other hand... That shit deserves to stay dead and buried.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2022-05-17 at 08:01 PM.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
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