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  1. #1

    Illustration of nowadays raiding game in World of Warcraft

    How PuGs work in WoW nowadays



    Nowadays PuG raids in WoW are all about how many K people pay. Blizzards greed for token sales destroyed the sole reason to play the game, to play together for fun rather than for "payments".

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    How PuGs work in WoW nowadays



    Nowadays PuG raids in WoW are all about how many K people pay. Blizzards greed for token sales destroyed the sole reason to play the game, to play together for fun rather than for "payments".

    We did that back in wrath(and some did it earlier aswell).

    Paying to get boosted in wow is not a new concept.

    If you want to raid - find a guild.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    How PuGs work in WoW nowadays



    Nowadays PuG raids in WoW are all about how many K people pay. Blizzards greed for token sales destroyed the sole reason to play the game, to play together for fun rather than for "payments".
    Guilds play for fun for the most part, plenty of selection for casual to hardcore with different raid times too, morning/day/evening/night

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Guilds play for fun for the most part, plenty of selection for casual to hardcore with different raid times too, morning/day/evening/night
    Casual gamers often have no time to join guilds and plan to play on schedules for something like a computer game. That is what you propose them to do.

    How about no?

  5. #5
    You've filtered by "tier" though, so yeah of course. This is obviously a word that the boosting groups are going to include. No pug is putting tier into their group name, they'll either have the specific boss they are currently on or something like "fresh" or "oneshot" or whatever. This thread means nothing when you filter specifically for them, for all we know what could be 7 groups out of 70.

    Also, as people have said the best thing is to find a guild that meets your playing requirements. Of the thousands of guilds out there it's very likely one of them will. Otherwise you have to queue for the pugs available or of course set your own one up!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    How PuGs work in WoW nowadays



    Nowadays PuG raids in WoW are all about how many K people pay. Blizzards greed for token sales destroyed the sole reason to play the game, to play together for fun rather than for "payments".
    I’d be interested in seeing the groups at the top
    Also you aren’t raiding for fun according to that you are raiding for tier

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by csguba View Post
    Also, as people have said the best thing is to find a guild that meets your playing requirements. Of the thousands of guilds out there it's very likely one of them will. Otherwise you have to queue for the pugs available or of course set your own one up!
    You understand the argument that most casual gamers will never commit to raiding guilds or schedules? You also understand that it does not really matter if you filter by "tier" or not? And that the group finder tool is still being flooded by "boosting"-offers?

    You also understand that, even if you find a pug, a casual gamer often is not on par with raid gear, and that groups are very unlikely to take those players into their setting?

    WoW nowadays either is a relentless meritocracy or a marketplace. Nothing for casual raiders anymore.

  8. #8
    Do we really need these threads every X months?

    Yes, boosting is a thing since vanilla.

    And no, it's not going to change.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    Do we really need these threads every X months?

    Yes, boosting is a thing since vanilla.

    And no, it's not going to change.
    My point is that it should change. Advertising, not just for RMTs, should be against the TOS. Using tokens for boosting also should be against the TOS.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Using tokens for boosting also should be against the TOS.
    How would that even be policed? Isn't it done not by trading actual tokens but "money equal to the value of a token"? There is no way to stop that unless you just remove the token completely, which is never going to happen.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    How would that even be policed? Isn't it done not by trading actual tokens but "money equal to the value of a token"? There is no way to stop that unless you just remove the token completely, which is never going to happen.
    Blizzard logs all transfers nowadays. So it is easy to check if gold was bought with a token once a player was reported. You can check if players have heroic or mythic gear on the armory, and report them if they killed a final boss in one run only, and if they got all achievements. Also it is easy to track the token sales for the same days they played the raid.

    Often it is also enough to simply outlaw a behaviour without policing it. Many players stop a habit if it is against the TOS. See multiboxing with key broadcasting software.

    But yes, this is not going to happen, as blizzard profits massively from that pyramid system. Where raiders have to make their raid leaders ingame gold so they could have free playtime from buying tokens as well.
    Last edited by cantrip; 2022-04-14 at 07:37 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Blizzard logs all transfers nowadays. So it is easy to check if gold was bought with a token once a player was reported. You can check if players have heroic or mythic gear on the armory, and report them if they killed a final boss in one run only, and if they got all achievements. Also it is easy to track the token sales for the same days they played the raid.
    Yeaaaaaah that costs about 5 times the money in work hours than they'd EVER lose from anything like this.

    Just a hint: when someone says "how would they do this?" they normally don't mean "OMG I can't see how this is technically physically EVEN POSSIBLE TO DO", they mean "how would they implement a realistic and practicable way to do this". Almost anything CAN BE DONE, but literal possibility is not what's holding things back. So it's pointless to bring up as a solution.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    How PuGs work in WoW nowadays



    Nowadays PuG raids in WoW are all about how many K people pay. Blizzards greed for token sales destroyed the sole reason to play the game, to play together for fun rather than for "payments".
    dude people have sold runs since Vanilla. the token isn't the cause of this.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Yeaaaaaah that costs about 5 times the money in work hours than they'd EVER lose from anything like this.
    You can automate almost everything nowadeays, with AI for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Just a hint: when someone says "how would they do this?" they normally don't mean "OMG I can't see how this is technically physically EVEN POSSIBLE TO DO", they mean "how would they implement a realistic and practicable way to do this". Almost anything CAN BE DONE, but literal possibility is not what's holding things back. So it's pointless to bring up as a solution.
    No, it is not pointless, as a solution really could be easy. You just seem to make a mountain out of a molehill, and want policing while a simple TOS violation rule would solve the problem in itself. I think boosting and buying tokens by boostes should be against the TOS. Based on that there are different possible solutions, even up to the point to completely devalue gold. And up to the point to outlaw gold sales completely. You could also use an AI solution for that.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Casual gamers often have no time to join guilds and plan to play on schedules for something like a computer game. That is what you propose them to do.

    How about no?
    If you cant take 3 hours 1 day a week out of your schedule playing a mmo that is literally a grind game - its not the game you should be playing anyway.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    dude people have sold runs since Vanilla. the token isn't the cause of this.
    The difference is it is epidemic nowadays. You compare a few hundred sale runs of classic with thousands nowadays. And act as if that is not worse.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Blizzard logs all transfers nowadays. So it is easy to check if gold was bought with a token once a player was reported. You can check if players have heroic or mythic gear on the armory, and report them if they killed a final boss in one run only, and if they got all achievements. Also it is easy to track the token sales for the same days they played the raid.

    Often it is also enough to simply outlaw a behaviour without policing it. Many players stop a habit if it is against the TOS. See multiboxing with key broadcasting software.

    But yes, this is not going to happen, as blizzard profits massively from that pyramid system. Where raiders have to make their raid leaders ingame gold so they could have free playtime from buying tokens as well.
    but these runs are not against TOS. you're being ridiculous. what someone else chooses to do with their gold in game has NOTHING to do with you. it doesn't effect you at all.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    If you cant take 3 hours 1 day a week out of your schedule a grinding mmo is not the game you should be playing anyway.
    Ok, then it seems you say WoW is not for casual gamers?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicPeon View Post
    We did that back in wrath(and some did it earlier aswell).

    Paying to get boosted in wow is not a new concept.

    If you want to raid - find a guild.
    The problem here isn't that boosting exists, it's that it's clogging up the 'looking for group' tool. If you're looking to join a group through the tool, you have to siphon through a plethora of boosting advertising. This is the wrong place for that. Thing is, blizzard couldn't nor shouldn't make boosting a bannable offense, but they should provide a new avenue for those players to use.

    The 'Looking for Group' tool was implemented for exactly that, players looking for a group. Not looking to purchase a service.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    but these runs are not against TOS. you're being ridiculous. what someone else chooses to do with their gold in game has NOTHING to do with you. it doesn't effect you at all.
    My point is they should be against the TOS.

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