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  1. #81
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "protecting basic honesty"
    It's going to be very difficult to "protect basic honesty" when you're fighting against fact checking.

  2. #82
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    I think any first debate should precede the opening of voting, to give prospective voters that want to get it done early the benefit of seeing the two(+) candidates head to head.
    This is irrelevant, and a distraction. Any voters voting before the first debates are, by virtue of their choice to vote at that time, not interested in the debates (which aren't really great ways to understand a candidate's policy platform in the first place) or their outcomes. You don't have a valid criticism, here, because you're predicating this entirely on obviously false premises.

    In the case that they choose not to watch it anyways, and are too convinced to change it regardless, then no harm done. Literally, no harm done. They had a choice to watch and chose not to.
    See, the problem with this argument is that you dishonestly presume the only source of information about the candidates is the debates.

    Plenty of people can come to fully-informed decisions by actually engaging in a couple hours or so of actual research, rather than mindlessly waiting for a prime-time distillation marred by a lot of useless shouting to just casually wander into their TV feed.

    I am very sorry that you disagree, but disagreement should not be confused with lying. Whether blatant dishonesty, as you would have it, or intellectual cowardice, as I'd say on you, it's fine to let it end.
    Nobody's accusing you of lying because they disagree with you. They're accusing you of lying because you are lying.

    This isn't a matter of difference of opinion. You're pushing false statements and arguments predicated upon the same. That's lying.


  3. #83
    @tehdang I’m not the one making an age argument. I was laughing about who you vote for while YOU argued the commission is too old.

  4. #84
    Saw a youtube video about this earlier, the guy gave a good suggestion on how they should react. If the Republicans want to take their balls and go home, let them.

    The Democrats should keep the debates going and instead just invite the Libertarians to them instead. If they are on the fence with the Democrat, they will likely go that way. If they were a fan of the Republican policies in general, they will likely go to the libertarians which will be votes that aren't going to the republicans since we don't have ranked choice voting.

    This could be a clear win on the Democrats if they actually just do their jobs this time. He described it something along the lines of this could be a win for the Democrats if they can just stop themselves from giving the Republicans first aid for once.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Saw a youtube video about this earlier, the guy gave a good suggestion on how they should react. If the Republicans want to take their balls and go home, let them.

    The Democrats should keep the debates going and instead just invite the Libertarians to them instead. If they are on the fence with the Democrat, they will likely go that way. If they were a fan of the Republican policies in general, they will likely go to the libertarians which will be votes that aren't going to the republicans since we don't have ranked choice voting.

    This could be a clear win on the Democrats if they actually just do their jobs this time. He described it something along the lines of this could be a win for the Democrats if they can just stop themselves from giving the Republicans first aid for once.
    I mean, it's a simple fix if Republicans don't show up: Just make every "debate" a town hall format with a mixture of audience and moderator questions. The Democratic nominee just gets multiple events to themselves while Republicans can try to organize their own events. And leave an empty chair for the Republican nominee at every town hall as a reminder that Republicans were invited to this, they just chose to take their toys and go home.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I mean, it's a simple fix if Republicans don't show up: Just make every "debate" a town hall format with a mixture of audience and moderator questions. The Democratic nominee just gets multiple events to themselves while Republicans can try to organize their own events. And leave an empty chair for the Republican nominee at every town hall as a reminder that Republicans were invited to this, they just chose to take their toys and go home.
    The issue with that is they get more boring to the average person and even less people will watch it because its less a "Sporting Event" and more a lecture so the overall turnout is lower and there really isn't an alternative.

    But having the Democrats actually up there debating the issues with a Libertarian on the other hand, that actually makes it more about the back and forth again and unlike the Republicans, the Libertarian actually have policies still. Sure they are screwed up policies that ignore reality but they are still policies that resonate well with the fantasies of the Republican voters.

    So, the Democrats get their time and to talk about their policies while the Libertarian's get to do the same and will potentially pull Republican voters to them at the ballot box and since we don't have ranked choice, that leads to less people blindly voting the R.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    The issue with that is they get more boring to the average person and even less people will watch it because its less a "Sporting Event" and more a lecture so the overall turnout is lower and there really isn't an alternative.
    Then they don't have to watch. The debates aren't intended to be entertaining, they're intended to be informative. If folks want to watch it as a sporting event, I don't give a shit if they lose interest because they won't get a sporting event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    But having the Democrats actually up there debating the issues with a Libertarian on the other hand, that actually makes it more about the back and forth again and unlike the Republicans, the Libertarian actually have policies still. Sure they are screwed up policies that ignore reality but they are still policies that resonate well with the fantasies of the Republican voters.

    So, the Democrats get their time and to talk about their policies while the Libertarian's get to do the same and will potentially pull Republican voters to them at the ballot box and since we don't have ranked choice, that leads to less people blindly voting the R.
    This is too transparently partisan. If they did something like this they'd need to bring more 3rd party candidates on, and then we're getting into the weeds with determining threshholds for entry and questions on how much this actually serves the public interest to get some libertarian up there talking about how drivers licenses are a massive government overreach and how we need to eliminate all regulations because companies are better if they self regulate.

  8. #88
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post

    So, the Democrats get their time and to talk about their policies while the Libertarian's get to do the same and will potentially pull Republican voters to them at the ballot box and since we don't have ranked choice, that leads to less people blindly voting the R.
    This sort of internecene bullshit doesn't actually happen to be honest. Trump could fuck Rand Paul's wife and they'd still back him. Or any one who becomes THE candidate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  9. #89
    @Edge-

    We know the overall purpose of the debates aren't to entertain, but that aspect can and does get more people to view it. And unfortunately those people who prefer the sporting events votes count just as much as mine or yours. So getting them to watch and not just change the channel is a good thing if the candidates are actually being honest. There is a reason why among the highest viewed debates for us was Trump's and Reagan's.

    As far as being transparently partisan, you mean like refusing to go on debates at all because of fact checking? Quite literally, you can bring up how the Republicans backed out because of fact checkers and say that the choices at that point was to either turn it into a town hall or get one another candidate who was running to debate against and actually allow the public and the fact checkers to see.

    As far as the public interest, it has policies put forward on the public stage and we already have a major party who would back many of their proposals, they just abdicated their roll in the debate.
    @Glorious Leader

    For the vast majority, you are correct, Trump could rape their own kids and just claim it was a lie and they would act like they were shocked or didn't know whom to believe. But for a portion of their voters, they could shift to the other party if it keeps telling them what they want to hear.

    Would be funny if they did it and it worked spectacularly only to see the GOP pivot into ranked choice voting hoping to keep the poaching down.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  10. #90
    Fluffy Kitten xChurch's Avatar
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    Ironic how this thread became a perfect example of why the RNC bailing on debates is probably a net gain. 5 pages in and nothing of major substance has been said due to bad faith right-wing arguments. Though the best has to be that apparently age matters for running debates but not for running for office, now that was good for a laugh.

  11. #91
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xChurch View Post
    Ironic how this thread became a perfect example of why the RNC bailing on debates is probably a net gain. 5 pages in and nothing of major substance has been said due to bad faith right-wing arguments. Though the best has to be that apparently age matters for running debates but not for running for office, now that was good for a laugh.
    To be fair, the general trend goes as such;

    "The status quo is unfair and unethical to Republicans and their platform!"
    "Really? What specific issues do you feel are unfair?"
    "The rules! They're all written to work against Republican policies, ideals, and platform points!"
    "What specific policies, ideals, or platform issues?"
    "I can't say, or the rules on hate speech and trolling will get me banned!"
    "Well, doesn't that just say everything."

    At some point, they get asked to be very specific about direct, rather than using shady generics, and they always run away at that point, because they know if they expose that they think the rules are "unfair" to white supremacist, fascist sadism for sadism's sake, nobody else will find that a convincing argument. That's why they won't get specific, and hope that everyone else's (not just "the left's") sense of fair play and equity can be abused to give their objectively monstrous and evil views a safe harbour, so that they can "properly" victimize innocents.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-04-16 at 07:42 PM.


  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by xChurch View Post
    Ironic how this thread became a perfect example of why the RNC bailing on debates is probably a net gain. 5 pages in and nothing of major substance has been said due to bad faith right-wing arguments. Though the best has to be that apparently age matters for running debates but not for running for office, now that was good for a laugh.
    No, it isn't a net gain. It just shows how much of a fucking pussy they really are. They are going to be asked 1 question right away at all debates. Did Biden win the election, if they lie and say Trump won, they lose independents. If they tell the truth and say Trump lost, they lose their base.

    Either way, they prove everyone right on how big of fucking snowflakes they are and how they deserve to be fucking ridiculed.

  13. #93
    If actual facts are held to scrutiny in person for once one live TV by a moderator, it's no wonder why the Republicans think that the debates are unfairly biased against them. They know their talking points don't actually fare well against anyone who knows the slightest thing about them.

    What's even funnier is Joe Biden will be the next person they will have to debate, and for all of their talk about his supposed "declining mental state", they are running away from him with their tails between their legs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    No, it isn't a net gain. It just shows how much of a fucking pussy they really are. They are going to be asked 1 question right away at all debates. Did Biden win the election, if they lie and say Trump won, they lose independents. If they tell the truth and say Trump lost, they lose their base.

    Either way, they prove everyone right on how big of fucking snowflakes they are and how they deserve to be fucking ridiculed.
    Politics would be a lot simpler if politicians actually answered yes or no questions with a yes or no answer. They would have likely prepared a canned response for that question long in advance that would be designed to appease both sides while never actually showing what the person really personally believes.
    Last edited by Very Tired; 2022-04-17 at 04:59 PM.

  14. #94
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    No worries, if there needs to be a debate in the future then both sides can just agree to the same terms and agree on a neutral intermediary.
    Let's spread optimism and defeat pessimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  15. #95
    The Insane Glorious Leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    No worries, if there needs to be a debate in the future then both sides can just agree to the same terms and agree on a neutral intermediary.
    I would hope that the democrats never to agree to avoiding all fact checking as a term.
    The hammer comes down:
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Normal should be reduced in difficulty. Heroic should be reduced in difficulty.
    And the tiny fraction for whom heroic raids are currently well tuned? Too bad,so sad! With the arterial bleed of subs the fastest it's ever been, the vanity development that gives you guys your own content is no longer supportable.

  16. #96
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    No worries, if there needs to be a debate in the future then both sides can just agree to the same terms and agree on a neutral intermediary.
    The Republicans are literally refusing exactly that, so congratulations on not having read the article the thread's about.


  17. #97
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The Republicans are literally refusing exactly that, so congratulations on not having read the article the thread's about.
    No I said both sides can agree on a neutral intermediary. The RNC doesn't agree that the prior system is or was neutral and unbiased. But this won't be the case forever because eventually both sides can find an intermediary and debating policy that both sides can consent to.
    Let's spread optimism and defeat pessimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    No I said both sides can agree on a neutral intermediary. The RNC doen't agree that the prior system is or was neutral and unbiased. But this won't be the case forever because eventually both sides can find an intermediary and debating policy that both sides can consent to.
    In which people like you still pretend that the Republican party is a functional political party operating in good faith.

  19. #99
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    No I said both sides can agree on a neutral intermediary. The RNC doesn't agree that the prior system is or was neutral and unbiased. But this won't be the case forever because eventually both sides can find an intermediary and debating policy that both sides can consent to.
    The RNC is refusing to do this.

    Again, literally in the article at the start of the thread.

    And before you push more willful disinfo; refusing to accept a neutral intermediary because of bullshit lies about partisan bias is a refusal of a neutral intermediary. Lying about it isn't a counterpoint. And the Republicans are lying about it.


  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Given that presidential debates hold zero value, I can't be too upset here. There were broken by 2000. When Karl Rove figured out the konami-code for the DC press.
    Last debate I watched, even in part, was the second, town-hall style, Romney/Obama debate in the 2012 election. The part that made me shut it off was the scene when Obama and Romney were circling each other in the pit and they were arguing about who had the largest pension. Both were smiling like they were having the time of their lives and that they were enjoying the verbal sparing as if it were a game.

    During that time I was working the last few months of a job that I had been notified that I was being severed from after working there for 8 years by that time. The company was moving operations to another state and myself and 80 some employee's were losing our jobs.

    Presidential debates are theater used by the political class and media to show everyone how fun politics are, so that candidates can get campaign donations and media can sell ads, while everyone else is worried about their next paycheck, keeping their housing situation stable or putting food on their table.

    Its good that RNC left the CPD. It would have been good if the DNC had left. It would have been good if the organization had been disbanded years ago.

    Right now I think it would be best if each campaign did anything from a Facebook live video or a Reddit AMA to explain their positions without interruption and then let the public review how useless the candidates policy positions are.
    The Right isn't universally bad. The Left isn't universally good. The Left isn't universally bad. The Right isn't universally good. Legal doesn't equal moral. Moral doesn't equal legal. Illegal doesn't equal immoral. Immoral doesn't equal illegal.

    Have a nice day.

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