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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Me too. That's why this whole Evoker thing seems bogus...
    Well, Evoker would at least be dragon-related.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    Were they elementals?
    As in, members of the elemental plains, no, but nor are dragons. As well, just like the ones mentioned, the dragons are not identified in-game as elementals either.

    Found the answer, and it is no. They are not elementals anymore, their predecessors were, ages ago, and their spawn evolved into flesh and blood over time.

    The proto-dragons descend from elementals who avoided being imprisoned in the Elemental Plane and instead remained on Azeroth, where some of them gradually transformed into creatures of flesh and blood. More specifically, Brann Bronzebeard recently uncovered evidence, corroborated by reports from adventurers in Deepholm, that proto-dragons may have origins in elemental drakes such as stone and storm drakes. The inhabitants of Deepholm, the Skywall, the Firelands, and the Abyssal Maw are less than talkative on these matters, however, and most of them were not around when the elemental prisons were created.

    The proto-dragons are thus early version of dragons before they evolved into the sapient, beautiful majestic creatures they are known as today.

    (Source)
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    As in, members of the elemental plains, no, but nor are dragons. As well, just like the ones mentioned, the dragons are not identified in-game as elementals either.

    Found the answer, and it is no. They are not elementals anymore, their predecessors were, ages ago, and their spawn evolved into flesh and blood over time.
    If modern dragons evolved from stone dragons, then why are there still stone dragons?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    If modern dragons evolved from stone dragons, then why are there still stone dragons?
    1.: Certain elementals avoided being imprisoned away on the elemental planes.
    2.: Elemental Dragons evolved from "free" elementals.
    3.: Elemental dragons slowly transformed into beings of flesh and blood.
    4.: Proto-Dragons evolved from these transformed elemental dragons.
    5.: The dragons we know, evolved from the Proto-Dragons.

    The only place we have elemental dragons is on the elemental planes.
    Last edited by Gehco; 2022-04-17 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Sorry, misinformation. They weren't imprisoned, they avoided being imprisoned.
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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    1.: Certain elementals were imprisoned away from the elemental planes.
    2.: Elemental Dragons evolved from imprisoned elementals.
    3.: Elemental dragons slowly transformed into beings of flesh and blood.
    4.: Proto-Dragons evolved from these transformed elemental dragons.
    5.: The dragons we know, evolved from the Proto-Dragons.

    The only place we have elemental dragons is on the elemental planes.
    But why didn't all stone dragons evolve into normal dragons?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    But why didn't all stone dragons evolve into normal dragons?
    Because they were locked away in the elemental planes, they didn't transform due to contact with the mortal realm, unlike the elemental dragons who avoided being imprisoned. (Kinda makes sense, just never thought they would change their lore to be rooting from excluded elementals).
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Because they were locked away in the elemental planes, they didn't transform due to contact with the mortal realm, unlike the elemental dragons who avoided being imprisoned. (Kinda makes sense, just never thought they would change their lore to be rooting from excluded elementals).
    Why would they not transform in the elemental planes? Especially if the transformation was caused by the curse of flesh. It was said that Deathwing was driven mad because of his proximity to the earth. Because the Old Gods were chained beneath the earth. So Deepholm is the place where elementals would be most vulnerable to the corruption of the Old Gods.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    Why would they not transform in the elemental planes? Especially if the transformation was caused by the curse of flesh. It was said that Deathwing was driven mad because of his proximity to the earth. Because the Old Gods were chained beneath the earth. So Deepholm is the place where elementals would be most vulnerable to the corruption of the Old Gods.
    Whelp, that I don't know, I'm not the writer of the Chronicles, only stating what I've recently found out. I would believe that the elemental planes hold some sort of control/protection, and what is left outside it, is bound to suffer.
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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Whelp, that I don't know, I'm not the writer of the Chronicles, only stating what I've recently found out. I would believe that the elemental planes hold some sort of control/protection, and what is left outside it, is bound to suffer.
    That can't be. I just said, that was where Deathwing was corrupted by the Old Gods. Metzen specifically pointed out, that because he spent a lot of time in Deepholm, because of his proximity to the earth, because the Old Gods were chained beneath the earth, he was susceptible to the whispers of the Old Gods and eventually driven mad.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    Why would they not transform in the elemental planes? Especially if the transformation was caused by the curse of flesh. It was said that Deathwing was driven mad because of his proximity to the earth. Because the Old Gods were chained beneath the earth. So Deepholm is the place where elementals would be most vulnerable to the corruption of the Old Gods.
    Deepholm is not beneath the surface of Azeroth. The elemental planes are in a realm entirely apart from the physical world where the Old Gods were. They wouldn't have been subject to Old God corruption in Deepholm, at least not at the time that the ancient elementals would've been evolving into proto-dragons.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by CalamityHeart View Post
    Deepholm is not beneath the surface of Azeroth. The elemental planes are in a realm entirely apart from the physical world where the Old Gods were. They wouldn't have been subject to Old God corruption in Deepholm, at least not at the time that the ancient elementals would've been evolving into proto-dragons.
    Ok, take it up with Metzen. That's official lore.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    But why didn't all stone dragons evolve into normal dragons?
    Monkeys.
    /10 char
    Is this how you do it? XD

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalamityHeart View Post
    Deepholm is not beneath the surface of Azeroth. The elemental planes are in a realm entirely apart from the physical world where the Old Gods were. They wouldn't have been subject to Old God corruption in Deepholm, at least not at the time that the ancient elementals would've been evolving into proto-dragons.
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    Ok, take it up with Metzen. That's official lore.
    Chronicle changes are without Metzen, I believe.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Chronicle changes are without Metzen, I believe.
    They didn't change Deathwing's lore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leaker69 View Post
    Monkeys.
    /10 char
    Is this how you do it? XD
    We didn't evolve from monkeys.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    They didn't change Deathwing's lore.
    Nope, but the core of the dragon lore.
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  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    Ok, take it up with Metzen. That's official lore.
    Do you have a source for this official Metzen chat of yours? Because "Deathwing spent a lot of time in Deepholm." and "Deathwing's proximity to the earth made him more susceptible to Old God corruption." don't necessarily have to be linked, or conclusive toward Deepholm having always been a place that was susceptible to corruption. Did Metzen specifically say that it was because of Deepholm that Deathwing got corrupted as thoroughly as he did? Nowhere on the wiki page I'm looking at does it allude to anything like that, but the wiki page also doesn't have any meaningful sources regarding Deathwing's corruption, so I'm not entirely sure.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Nope, but the core of the dragon lore.
    That doesn't change that it's still canon, that Deathwing got corrupted by the Old Gods due to his proximity to the earth by being in Deepholm, so it makes no sense that the Stone Drakes would not be affected in the same way, that the other Stone Drakes got affected.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CalamityHeart View Post
    Do you have a source for this official Metzen chat of yours?
    Blizzcon 2009

    When he introduced the entire story of Cataclysm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CalamityHeart View Post
    Because "Deathwing spent a lot of time in Deepholm." and "Deathwing's proximity to the earth made him more susceptible to Old God corruption." don't necessarily have to be linked, or conclusive toward Deepholm having always been a place that was susceptible to corruption
    Of course they are lol

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    That doesn't change that it's still canon, that Deathwing got corrupted by the Old Gods due to his proximity to the earth by being in Deepholm, so it makes no sense that the Stone Drakes would not be affected in the same way, that the other Stone Drakes got affected.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Blizzcon 2009
    When he introduced the entire story of Cataclysm.
    - - - Updated - - -
    Of course they are lol
    The only mention of DW and Deepholm I could find were post WoE, by which he was obviously already completely corrupted, since he just betrayed his breathren via the creation of the demon soul. Not to mention the old gods are literally imprisoned in the earth itself, so for their corruption to reach him it would make even more sense if he just stayed on azeroth, because that is where the corruption is thickest. The elemental lords in their domains don't seem to care all that much about the old gods since their imprisonment, I don't see how those places would be especially corrupting to him or anyone for that matter.
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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    They didn't change Deathwing's lore.

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    We didn't evolve from monkeys.
    Apes? Is this semantics, or are you anti evolution?
    Anyway, if I remember dragon lore correctly (as it is now) - there were elemental creatures, who were not banished into elemental plane, they over time become protodrakes (who knows how, but since curse of flesh exists, I am guessing that). Then protodrakes got boosted by Titans to be dragons we know today.
    Similar to Earthen/Dwarves and Vrykul/Humans. In a sense that former still exists.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    That doesn't change that it's still canon, that Deathwing got corrupted by the Old Gods due to his proximity to the earth by being in Deepholm, so it makes no sense that the Stone Drakes would not be affected in the same way, that the other Stone Drakes got affected.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Blizzcon 2009

    When he introduced the entire story of Cataclysm.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Of course they are lol
    Oh, I see what you are talking about. Deathwing got corrupted before being imprisoned in Deepholm, no? If I am not mistaken Deepholm is even elemental plane, not just underground zone.

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