Poll: Do you want Dark Rangers?

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  1. #641
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    We all know they use Fire, Shadow and Chaos. But, these are general terms. You need to specify what kind of Fire and Shadow they are using.
    blizzard separations them all out they aren't all just fel, just like they tell us shamans heal with spirit and hunters have spell casting abilities, that’s the lore straight from blizzards own month and there’s no getting around it.



    None of them change their classes into another thing.
    and neither does any of the dark ranger stuff as it’s not a class.


    Are you serious? It's a fantasy game.
    Can a human really parkour like Tarzan in the wild? No. But, that's how a movie portrays it.
    Jesus christ, even the Hunter's physical shooting isn't 100% realistically accurate.
    it’s a fantasy game with magic that already covers such things, blizzard saying these effects are magical, and no examples of hunters physically being able to do any of them in the lore unlike Tarzan.


    What? Sylvanas is no longer a Hunter.
    she refers to her self a a hunter both pre and post raising by arthas in her own book.

    So again why not just mind control malfurion if you think hunters can just mind control Druids by waving there lands?

    That's because Vol'jin is a Shadow Hunter.
    He can talk all day about Loas, the Human Hunter still doesn't base his abilities on them.
    he talks about Loa with a human in regards to said human and gets a Loa to bless said human bringing him back to life in the book, nor is said human the only one who has ever been blessed by a Loa.


    Jesus christ, i linked it like a thousand times. Someone messed with the Dark Ranger info page.
    Skill(s) Archery, Necromancy
    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_ranger
    no one messed with the page at best some one likely corrected it years ago as Sylvanas and dark rangers losing connection to the wild and it being replaced with necromancy is not a part of wows lore and only takes place in the RPG.

    It doesn’t happen any where in game, it doesn’t happen in any of her short story’s, it doesn’t happen in any of the novel’s she’s in, it doesn’t happen in any of the comics, it’s solely from the RPG and has never translated into canon wow.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-05-09 at 01:07 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    And it probably did so for the Demon Hunter and Death Knight before they became playable. It did so for Tinkers and it does so for Tauren Chieftain.

    Again, using what we have is a common thing in WoW.
    Sunwalkers apply to Paladins because it's the closest thing. They don't fight for justice or for the Sun. They are what you would call Sun Warriors. There's always a need to represent lore using existing assets. That's what you've seen with the Demon Hunter and that's what you see with the Dark Ranger, Shadow Hunter, Blademaster, etc....
    Right, so if you don't oppose it and you are fully aware that Blizzard does it, then you don't need to ask all these arbitrary questions of where XYZ Sylvanas ability is whenever talking about Dark Ranger as a customization option. You're already aware Blizzard will just find the closest gameplay and have it loosely represented just as Synwalkers don't have their own class, while formally their lore is tied to an existing one despite also being their own thing.

    You are fully aware that the lore and gameplay are not so clear on 'either it is or it isn't'.

    As for Demon Hunter and DK, no blizzard always left it completely ambiguous and did not attach them to any existing classes lorewise. As I explained many times, they were always careful not to.

    Legion was the first and only time when external class concepts started to get bridged into existing ones. Before that, even Beastmasterand Ranger was a separate concept. Since Order Halls, they are collectively 'Hunters'. Dark Ranger is also a type Hunter in the lore, specific to Darkfallen. It is merely a Hunter that has very little gameplay representation, like Sunwalkers are Paladins with very little gameplay representation and are exclusive to certain races; right now that being Tauren.

    What I think Blizzard should have done was create new terminology for any Forsaken or Darkfallen Hunters. They deliberately chose Dark Ranger, and deliberately chose not to have them use possession and drain life and banshee powers. They deliberately chose to have them join the Unseen Path. So as I keep saying, these aren't the Dark Rangers I agree with, but they are ones Blizzard officially recognizes as being Dark Rangers.

    So when we talk about whether DR are justified being its own class, the facts we gave to support a WC3 style Sylvanas archetype diminishes more and more as Blizzard continues to take Dark Ranger story further and further away from her origin and powers. Like, how hard it is to literally give Dark Ranger a Illidari style origin all this time? Is there any reason they shouldn't be former Banshees? Couldn't they just wait on not having them join back the Horde and Alliance until it was time for them as a playable class? All those story opportunities are squandered by BFA's conclusion.

    I keep asking how Blizzard would introduce Dark Ranger with Banshee powers in the future and no one has even the faintest idea how it would be possible. I mean you can bank on Sylvanas return but as I said, she is not gonna be anywhere close to her formal self if she is going through a redemption arc and being explained that she has her full soul back now. Most of those Banshee themes are pointless, since a Banshee represents the torment of the afterlife while Sylvanas is literally seeking peace.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-09 at 03:16 PM.

  3. #643
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharnath View Post
    I can't see anything that they can bring to the table that a Death Knight or Hunter already do.

    Same opinion on the Shadow Hunter as a class.

    I can't see anything that they can bring to the table that a Shadow Priest or Hunter already do.

    Heck I don't think they should of brought Death Knight or Daemon Hunter in as classes either.

    From my perspective, Monks brought the most to the table when they came, even though I have no interest in making or playing as a monk in wow.
    I believe the Evoker class drove an even deeper nail into the coffin of Dark Rangers, because now there's not much of a need for another mail or ranged class.

    And before people lose their shorts, the Evoker has also made implementing the Tinker a more difficult endeavor to take, because its simply not as necessary anymore.

    An interesting path Blizzard could take is to push Survival into a more Tinker-style direction with adding turrets, more mech options (beyond mechanical animal skins), and gun abilities, and give Marksman a more Dark Ranger direction with Wailing Arrow, Withering Fire, and a return of Black Arrow.

    All through talents of course.

  4. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I believe the Evoker class drove an even deeper nail into the coffin of Dark Rangers, because now there's not much of a need for another mail or ranged class.

    And before people lose their shorts, the Evoker has also made implementing the Tinker a more difficult endeavor to take, because its simply not as necessary anymore.

    An interesting path Blizzard could take is to push Survival into a more Tinker-style direction with adding turrets, more mech options (beyond mechanical animal skins), and gun abilities, and give Marksman a more Dark Ranger direction with Wailing Arrow, Withering Fire, and a return of Black Arrow.

    All through talents of course.
    This I could get along with tbh.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I believe the Evoker class drove an even deeper nail into the coffin of Dark Rangers, because now there's not much of a need for another mail or ranged class.

    And before people lose their shorts, the Evoker has also made implementing the Tinker a more difficult endeavor to take, because its simply not as necessary anymore.

    An interesting path Blizzard could take is to push Survival into a more Tinker-style direction with adding turrets, more mech options (beyond mechanical animal skins), and gun abilities, and give Marksman a more Dark Ranger direction with Wailing Arrow, Withering Fire, and a return of Black Arrow.

    All through talents of course.
    I...

    I'm quite baffled by the amount of sense you're making.

  6. #646
    High Overlord Ghanir's Avatar
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    Considering "edgy" sells it wouldn't be too surprising if they come up with something like "Allied Classes" to introduce stuff like Dark Ranger and Shadow Hunter, and tying them to allied races like Dark Fallen

  7. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I...

    I'm quite baffled by the amount of sense you're making.
    Right?!, Even I agreed with that post.

  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I believe the Evoker class drove an even deeper nail into the coffin of Dark Rangers, because now there's not much of a need for another mail or ranged class.

    And before people lose their shorts, the Evoker has also made implementing the Tinker a more difficult endeavor to take, because its simply not as necessary anymore.

    An interesting path Blizzard could take is to push Survival into a more Tinker-style direction with adding turrets, more mech options (beyond mechanical animal skins), and gun abilities, and give Marksman a more Dark Ranger direction with Wailing Arrow, Withering Fire, and a return of Black Arrow.

    All through talents of course.
    I think the exact opposite. They're definitely not just stop adding ranged dps to the game. Forget what I said about mage & Evoker, just look at the elemental & nature theming of this new class: There's a wild world of new class ideas & motifs they haven't explored & Evoker with bringing back Talent Trees really breaks out of the established box.

    Its almost like the first 12 classes can be considered "classic" classes while Evoker & everything that comes after are "post-modern" classes. Lore-wise, Hunter, Ranger & Dark Ranger might be very similar but that shouldn't hamper they're ability to add them in classes with unique mechanics & when we had talent trees for the most part classes needed less "redesigning" between expansions.

  9. #649
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    blizzard separations them all out they aren't all just fel, just like they tell us shamans heal with spirit and hunters have spell casting abilities, that’s the lore straight from blizzards own month and there’s no getting around it.
    The same Blizzard that also gave Warlocks Demon Hunter abilities, categorized Rexxar as a Survival Hunter and declared Falstad as dead.

    and neither does any of the dark ranger stuff as it’s not a class.
    Then, what are you expecting to be with Dark Ranger abilities?

    it’s a fantasy game with magic that already covers such things, blizzard saying these effects are magical, and no examples of hunters physically being able to do any of them in the lore unlike Tarzan.
    Aspect of the Hawk
    When Spirit Swoop hits an enemy Hero, Rexxar gains 125% Attack Speed for 4 seconds. Misha's Basic Attacks increase the duration of this buff by 0.75 seconds.

    she refers to her self a a hunter both pre and post raising by arthas in her own book.

    So again why not just mind control malfurion if you think hunters can just mind control Druids by waving there lands?
    Dark Rangers mind control Humanoids, not Beasts.

    he talks about Loa with a human in regards to said human and gets a Loa to bless said human bringing him back to life in the book, nor is said human the only one who has ever been blessed by a Loa.
    So, Tyrathan Khort is a Human Hunter who uses Loa powers?

    no one messed with the page at best some one likely corrected it years ago as Sylvanas and dark rangers losing connection to the wild and it being replaced with necromancy is not a part of wows lore and only takes place in the RPG.

    It doesn’t happen any where in game, it doesn’t happen in any of her short story’s, it doesn’t happen in any of the novel’s she’s in, it doesn’t happen in any of the comics, it’s solely from the RPG and has never translated into canon wow.
    It is. I'm talking about very recently that i've seen this piece of information going around. Probably when the Sylvanas book came out, with the Darkfallen, was when the page was changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Right, so if you don't oppose it and you are fully aware that Blizzard does it, then you don't need to ask all these arbitrary questions of where XYZ Sylvanas ability is whenever talking about Dark Ranger as a customization option. You're already aware Blizzard will just find the closest gameplay and have it loosely represented just as Synwalkers don't have their own class, while formally their lore is tied to an existing one despite also being their own thing.
    Sunwalkers are a race\class combination with no associated abilities. Learn the differnce. They aren't even an RPG class.

    You are fully aware that the lore and gameplay are not so clear on 'either it is or it isn't'.

    As for Demon Hunter and DK, no blizzard always left it completely ambiguous and did not attach them to any existing classes lorewise. As I explained many times, they were always careful not to.

    Legion was the first and only time when external class concepts started to get bridged into existing ones. Before that, even Beastmasterand Ranger was a separate concept. Since Order Halls, they are collectively 'Hunters'. Dark Ranger is also a type Hunter in the lore, specific to Darkfallen. It is merely a Hunter that has very little gameplay representation, like Sunwalkers are Paladins with very little gameplay representation and are exclusive to certain races; right now that being Tauren.
    Bullshit. Beastmasters were always Hunters, as well as Rangers.

    What I think Blizzard should have done was create new terminology for any Forsaken or Darkfallen Hunters. They deliberately chose Dark Ranger, and deliberately chose not to have them use possession and drain life and banshee powers. They deliberately chose to have them join the Unseen Path. So as I keep saying, these aren't the Dark Rangers I agree with, but they are ones Blizzard officially recognizes as being Dark Rangers.
    You give them too much weight when Sylvansas is the main Dark Ranger character and have been moreso the last few expansions.

    So when we talk about whether DR are justified being its own class, the facts we gave to support a WC3 style Sylvanas archetype diminishes more and more as Blizzard continues to take Dark Ranger story further and further away from her origin and powers. Like, how hard it is to literally give Dark Ranger a Illidari style origin all this time? Is there any reason they shouldn't be former Banshees? Couldn't they just wait on not having them join back the Horde and Alliance until it was time for them as a playable class? All those story opportunities are squandered by BFA's conclusion.
    Further away? Was it your mudane Dark Rangers that got a HotS character, raid abilities and in-game cinematics or was it Sylvanas? You are, for some reason, looking at the non-important instead of the important.

    Why wouldn't they give them a new origin? Illidan's followers didn't amount to more than a dozen at best before Legion.

    I keep asking how Blizzard would introduce Dark Ranger with Banshee powers in the future and no one has even the faintest idea how it would be possible. I mean you can bank on Sylvanas return but as I said, she is not gonna be anywhere close to her formal self if she is going through a redemption arc and being explained that she has her full soul back now. Most of those Banshee themes are pointless, since a Banshee represents the torment of the afterlife while Sylvanas is literally seeking peace.
    Did Illidan change after his redemption arc?
    If they wanted to change her, they'd have brought her back to life but she's still dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I believe the Evoker class drove an even deeper nail into the coffin of Dark Rangers, because now there's not much of a need for another mail or ranged class.

    And before people lose their shorts, the Evoker has also made implementing the Tinker a more difficult endeavor to take, because its simply not as necessary anymore.

    An interesting path Blizzard could take is to push Survival into a more Tinker-style direction with adding turrets, more mech options (beyond mechanical animal skins), and gun abilities, and give Marksman a more Dark Ranger direction with Wailing Arrow, Withering Fire, and a return of Black Arrow.

    All through talents of course.
    What the hell did the Evoker do to you?
    Didn't you get your sugar dose for this expansion already? I thought you'd be docile by now...

    Why would they stop adding ranged classes? They added 3 melee in the last 10 years. 2 of them being Leather wearers.

  10. #650
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    The same Blizzard that also gave Warlocks Demon Hunter abilities, categorized Rexxar as a Survival Hunter and declared Falstad as dead.
    so your saying blizzard has been wrong in the past so you take precedent over them? That they were wrong in classic, wrong in mop, wrong in legion, and they are wrong now based solely on you not agreeing with them and nothing else?



    Then, what are you expecting to be with Dark Ranger abilities?
    a hunter just like how hunters have the ability’s now and are still hunters.



    Aspect of the Hawk
    When Spirit Swoop hits an enemy Hero, Rexxar gains 125% Attack Speed for 4 seconds. Misha's Basic Attacks increase the duration of this buff by 0.75 seconds.
    for the 20th or so time Hots is not wow lore.

    So again it’s either something from wild gods or not in the lore those are the only options.


    Dark Rangers mind control Humanoids, not Beasts.
    we have already gone over the fact that dark rangers don’t have mind control any where outside of WC3 so I’m not gonna retread that and will just take you avoiding the question as a yes you think hunters can mine control Druids.



    So, Tyrathan Khort is a Human Hunter who uses Loa powers?
    has used loa powers sure it’s why he’s alive.

    Varian would be another example of a human using Loa powers though obviously not a hunter. And before you say Lo’gosh is a wild god not a Loa or something Loa is just the troll term for wild god all wild gods are Loa’s to trolls.



    It is. I'm talking about very recently that i've seen this piece of information going around. Probably when the Sylvanas book came out, with the Darkfallen, was when the page was changed.
    the information has been going around for years used by people like you who don’t actually read pages or sources.

    It has never been cannon and there has never been a hint of it from any where but the RPG.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Sunwalkers are a race\class combination with no associated abilities. Learn the differnce. They aren't even an RPG class.
    "Associated abilities" is not a definition of lore.

    Look at how "Death Knight" has been reinvented multiple times. Do they still have all their WC2 abilities like Whirlwind, Touch of Darkness and Haste? No, they don't. They don't need it.

    Bullshit. Beastmasters were always Hunters, as well as Rangers.
    So why did you come up with a Ranger class concept if you admit they are Hunters?

    You give them too much weight when Sylvansas is the main Dark Ranger character and have been moreso the last few expansions.
    But it's not me doing so. It's Blizzard.

    Again, I ask you where has Blizzard intending to make a new Dark Ranger class that uses WC3 style Dark Ranger abilities and is based on Sylvanas when she is literally going through a redemption cycle in the Maw, and distancing herself from her former 'evil' self who was using all those dark powers? They're literally giving her a new reason NOT to be a Dark Ranger any more by even giving back her full soul.

    Again, *I'M* not the one putting weight on this. This is literally the direction they have taken the story.

    It's the same kind of character progression that has turned Thrall into a *former* Shaman, rather than some new type of Shaman that merely has zero Elemental powers. Sylvanas seems to be headed in a similar direction where she may become a *former* Dark Ranger if she goes through with a full redemption arc, and shows to no longer use any of her Banshee powers. It all depends on how they present her character moving forward.

    Further away? Was it your mudane Dark Rangers that got a HotS character, raid abilities and in-game cinematics or was it Sylvanas? You are, for some reason, looking at the non-important instead of the important.

    Why wouldn't they give them a new origin? Illidan's followers didn't amount to more than a dozen at best before Legion.
    Because Blizzard has already concluded their origins and story being brought back under Calia. They're ALREADY part of our factions.

    Did Illidan change after his redemption arc?
    If they wanted to change her, they'd have brought her back to life but she's still dead.
    Demon Hunter class isn't tied to Illidan though, they joined when he was still MIA. And the Illidari we got were explained themselves to be MIA.

    Dark Rangers are not. They've already gotten BFA conclusions. The only real difference is Darkfallen is not yet a playable race.

    If Blizzard was inserting lore that has Rogues or Warlocks literally being called 'Demon Hunters' from just picking up Warglaives and Blindfolds then that would be lore. The difference is Blizzard never actually did this to make a connection between Demon Hunters and any existing class. They have done so for Dark Ranger. That is the difference.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-05-09 at 07:35 PM.

  12. #652
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    I think the exact opposite. They're definitely not just stop adding ranged dps to the game. Forget what I said about mage & Evoker, just look at the elemental & nature theming of this new class: There's a wild world of new class ideas & motifs they haven't explored & Evoker with bringing back Talent Trees really breaks out of the established box.

    Its almost like the first 12 classes can be considered "classic" classes while Evoker & everything that comes after are "post-modern" classes. Lore-wise, Hunter, Ranger & Dark Ranger might be very similar but that shouldn't hamper they're ability to add them in classes with unique mechanics & when we had talent trees for the most part classes needed less "redesigning" between expansions.
    I disagree that the new class is shaped around elemental magic, it's shaped by dragons and draconic abilities, like flight and dragon breath. So the new class adds a class that revolves completely around dragons and draconic-abilities, which is adding something unique to the class lineup. More importantly though is that the Evoker filled the crucial holes in the class lineup; New Ranged DPS, New Healing Spec, New Mail armor class.

    The problem moving forward is where do we go from here? Sure, we can add more ranged classes, but to what end? Blizzard has made it clear that they're not interested in more tanks, and the community is exhausted by MDPS, and healing has its limits, so there's really nowhere to go but more RDPS. However, with this new class providing new RDPS, I'm already seeing people saying that's enough (including the fact that Blizzard didn't give this class 2 RDPS specs), and I tend to agree. We've kind of reached a point where everything is evened out; Melee and Ranged DPS specs are pretty much even, we have slightly more healing than tanks, which makes sense because more healers are needed for Raids than tanks, and the armor table is pretty much evened out.

    I'm afraid I'm going with the camp saying we have enough classes at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    What the hell did the Evoker do to you?
    Didn't you get your sugar dose for this expansion already? I thought you'd be docile by now...

    Why would they stop adding ranged classes? They added 3 melee in the last 10 years. 2 of them being Leather wearers.
    Again, to what end? I think Blizzard sent a very clear message when they restricted the Evoker to a single RDPS spec. That message is that we may have reached the saturation point for new classes, and we may start beginning to see an era of existing classes getting some degree of diversification. Either through new specs, customization, or talents.

    My money is on customization and talent options. You can get a Dark Ranger through glyphs and talent choices within the Hunter class. The same could apply for a Tinker, since Mechagnomes, Goblins, and Gnomes can all be Hunters.

    Blademaster? Make this

    https://www.wowhead.com/item=124224/...ter?bonus=1801

    A talent in the Arms talent tree.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    The problem moving forward is where do we go from here? Sure, we can add more ranged classes, but to what end? Blizzard has made it clear that they're not interested in more tanks
    You're falsely attributing them "refusing to give Evokers a Tank Spec" to them "not interested in more tanks" when they already explained that its just because Dracthyr are impractically large for a melee class. The next class added will surely have a tank sepc.

    Also daring to say "Dragonic magic & elemental magic are completely unrelated" when the first tier of Dragonflight is literally set where the Titans turned elementals into dragons.
    Last edited by Ersula; 2022-05-10 at 01:40 AM.

  14. #654
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You're falsely attributing them "refusing to give Evokers a Tank Spec" to them "not interested in more tanks" when they already explained that its just because Dracthyr are impractically large for a melee class. The next class added will surely have a tank spec.
    I'm pretty sure the devs said that there were "plenty of tanks" along with the remark of "there's plenty of melee". That indicates that the devs have reached a cap of sorts in regards to tanks and melee DPS. That makes it difficult to create new classes.

    Also daring to say "Dragonic magic & elemental magic are completely unrelated" when the first tier of Dragonflight is literally set where the Titans turned elementals into dragons.
    Except the Dractyr can also use Prismatic, Time, and Arcane magic, which is not elemental magic. Also the crux of their abilities revolve around them being draconic, which is why they have abilities like Soar that allow them to fly in combat via their dragon wings.

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    You're falsely attributing them "refusing to give Evokers a Tank Spec" to them "not interested in more tanks" when they already explained that its just because Dracthyr are impractically large for a melee class. The next class added will surely have a tank sepc.

    Also daring to say "Dragonic magic & elemental magic are completely unrelated" when the first tier of Dragonflight is literally set where the Titans turned elementals into dragons.
    I mean, to be honest

    What would the next class even be, to have a Tank spec?

    The only one that comes to mind would be a Tinker. Like, what else is there? Would they actually make a Blademaster class? A tanking Bard? A tanking Shadow Hunter?

  16. #656
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I mean, to be honest

    What would the next class even be, to have a Tank spec?

    The only one that comes to mind would be a Tinker. Like, what else is there? Would they actually make a Blademaster class? A tanking Bard? A tanking Shadow Hunter?
    Yes. Literally all of those. Sylvanas was tanking a whole raid herself & that fight gives some inspired tanking abilities for a Dark Ranger even. Magically enhanced dodging. Pinning arrows for CC. Her penchant for randomly turning into a cloud of smoke. (Remember that Rangers are historically not a ranged-only role, its typically a survivalist who can fight in both ranged & in melee) The closest playable Bard we have in this franchise is ETC & he's literally a tank.

    You also have to take in mind the gameplay & lore is only connected in the form of diegesis. They could give mages a tanking spec. They could give Priest a tanking spec. The only limit is developers' ideas.

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Yes. Literally all of those. Sylvanas was tanking a whole raid herself & that fight gives some inspired tanking abilities for a Dark Ranger even. Magically enhanced dodging. Pinning arrows for CC. Her penchant for randomly turning into a cloud of smoke. (Remember that Rangers are historically not a ranged-only role, its typically a survivalist who can fight in both ranged & in melee) The closest playable Bard we have in this franchise is ETC & he's literally a tank.

    You also have to take in mind the gameplay & lore is only connected in the form of diegesis. They could give mages a tanking spec. They could give Priest a tanking spec. The only limit is developers' ideas.
    Despite not being limited, the Developers aren't gonna just throw darts on a board to come up with new Tank classes. I think you're too broadly generalizing what they plan to allow as a tank if you think they would allow Priests to tank.

    This is still WoW we're talking about, not Guild Wars 2.

  18. #658
    The Unstoppable Force Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ersula View Post
    Yes. Literally all of those. Sylvanas was tanking a whole raid herself & that fight gives some inspired tanking abilities for a Dark Ranger even. Magically enhanced dodging. Pinning arrows for CC. Her penchant for randomly turning into a cloud of smoke. (Remember that Rangers are historically not a ranged-only role, its typically a survivalist who can fight in both ranged & in melee) The closest playable Bard we have in this franchise is ETC & he's literally a tank.

    You also have to take in mind the gameplay & lore is only connected in the form of diegesis. They could give mages a tanking spec. They could give Priest a tanking spec. The only limit is developers' ideas.
    Well again, look at the Evoker; They could have made a caster tank along the lines of the mage and priest like you’re suggesting, and they would even have a basis for it via the Black Dragonflight, and abilities/mechanics via Deathwing HotS.

    However, they didn’t do it, and I think that’s a VERY big clue on how Blizzard views the tank role; When it comes to tanking, they are VERY conservative with design. We saw this with the developer who attempted to make Warlock a legitimate tank in MoP, and he was completely overruled by the design team.

    In short, WoW tanks will always be melee, and always be similar to other existing tanks in general design. They will have a few quirks and semi-unique forms of mitigation that will make them seem different, but when you break it down, they’re going to have shared elements. You’re probably never going to see a ranged tank of ANY kind in WoW. Evokers not getting a tank spec when there are no mail tanks (and the dragon concept supports such a spec) proves it.

  19. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    so your saying blizzard has been wrong in the past so you take precedent over them? That they were wrong in classic, wrong in mop, wrong in legion, and they are wrong now based solely on you not agreeing with them and nothing else?
    Humans are prone to mistakes.

    a hunter just like how hunters have the ability’s now and are still hunters.
    Then, why are you advocating for more of this? Just be a Hunter.

    for the 20th or so time Hots is not wow lore.

    So again it’s either something from wild gods or not in the lore those are the only options.
    It's literally the mimicry of wild animals. I don't know how it can be any more obvious.

    we have already gone over the fact that dark rangers don’t have mind control any where outside of WC3 so I’m not gonna retread that and will just take you avoiding the question as a yes you think hunters can mine control Druids.
    WC3 is canon as far as i know. You just have a very special world view when it comes to WoW lore.

    has used loa powers sure it’s why he’s alive.

    Varian would be another example of a human using Loa powers though obviously not a hunter. And before you say Lo’gosh is a wild god not a Loa or something Loa is just the troll term for wild god all wild gods are Loa’s to trolls.
    Blessed by a Loa and using its powers are 2 different things.

    the information has been going around for years used by people like you who don’t actually read pages or sources.

    It has never been cannon and there has never been a hint of it from any where but the RPG.
    It has been a staple of Dark Ranger lore for years. Everyone knew Dark Rangers used necromancy after they were raised and lost connection with the wilds. It's basic Dark Ranger information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    "Associated abilities" is not a definition of lore.

    Look at how "Death Knight" has been reinvented multiple times. Do they still have all their WC2 abilities like Whirlwind, Touch of Darkness and Haste? No, they don't. They don't need it.
    Playable Death Knights are not based on the WC2 version.
    Sunwalkers don't even have outdated abilities. They have none.

    So why did you come up with a Ranger class concept if you admit they are Hunters?
    A general name i decided to use.
    Since Dark Rangers and Priestesses of the Moon are a variation of Rangers that are not part of the regular Ranger, it would have many Ranger representations that are not found in the Hunter.

    But it's not me doing so. It's Blizzard.

    Again, I ask you where has Blizzard intending to make a new Dark Ranger class that uses WC3 style Dark Ranger abilities and is based on Sylvanas when she is literally going through a redemption cycle in the Maw, and distancing herself from her former 'evil' self who was using all those dark powers? They're literally giving her a new reason NOT to be a Dark Ranger any more by even giving back her full soul.

    Again, *I'M* not the one putting weight on this. This is literally the direction they have taken the story.

    It's the same kind of character progression that has turned Thrall into a *former* Shaman, rather than some new type of Shaman that merely has zero Elemental powers. Sylvanas seems to be headed in a similar direction where she may become a *former* Dark Ranger if she goes through with a full redemption arc, and shows to no longer use any of her Banshee powers. It all depends on how they present her character moving forward.
    It hasn't been stated that she lost her abilities. She is still an Undead. Blue eyes might be just more customization options.

    Because Blizzard has already concluded their origins and story being brought back under Calia. They're ALREADY part of our factions.
    They always were. Sylvanas only got batshit crazy in BfA. It was a departure and a return.

    Demon Hunter class isn't tied to Illidan though, they joined when he was still MIA. And the Illidari we got were explained themselves to be MIA.

    Dark Rangers are not. They've already gotten BFA conclusions. The only real difference is Darkfallen is not yet a playable race.

    If Blizzard was inserting lore that has Rogues or Warlocks literally being called 'Demon Hunters' from just picking up Warglaives and Blindfolds then that would be lore. The difference is Blizzard never actually did this to make a connection between Demon Hunters and any existing class. They have done so for Dark Ranger. That is the difference.
    You're just making my case. Sylvanas is currently missing in action, like you say Illidan was. So, why wouldn't her "former" followers join us in a playable manner like they did?

    Do you really think red eyes and a bow would make you into a Dark Ranger? They gave Night elves blindfold option in vanilla as a tribute to Illidan (with a mad face). You could only roleplay as one. At this point, it's just play-pretend, no matter how much you call it by its name.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Again, to what end? I think Blizzard sent a very clear message when they restricted the Evoker to a single RDPS spec. That message is that we may have reached the saturation point for new classes, and we may start beginning to see an era of existing classes getting some degree of diversification. Either through new specs, customization, or talents.
    They did that way back in Legion when they added the Demon Hunter. 1 Melee DPS spec. Was it the end of all Melee DPS specs? Heck, they even did it with the Monk, with the other two being a healing and a Tanking spec.
    You thought Legion and the Demon Hunter marked the end of classes, yet here we are with an Evoker class. The quickness in which you just give up on new classes, even with your beloved Tinker, is astounding.
    It's clear that they've taken to a reduced amount of specs, but it is not the end of classes, as Dragonflight showed you.

    My money is on customization and talent options. You can get a Dark Ranger through glyphs and talent choices within the Hunter class. The same could apply for a Tinker, since Mechagnomes, Goblins, and Gnomes can all be Hunters.
    Suddenly Tinkers are Hunters? What a waste of time arguing with you for pages over pages....

    Blademaster? Make this

    https://www.wowhead.com/item=124224/...ter?bonus=1801

    A talent in the Arms talent tree.
    Funny you link this. It is everything but the Warrior:
    Classes: Hunter, Rogue, Shaman, Monk, Druid, Demon Hunter

    By the way, don't you have an Evoker forum to moderate? I thought you said you'd go into retirement after a class you wanted gets added.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I mean, to be honest

    What would the next class even be, to have a Tank spec?

    The only one that comes to mind would be a Tinker. Like, what else is there? Would they actually make a Blademaster class? A tanking Bard? A tanking Shadow Hunter?
    Blademaster & Warden.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well again, look at the Evoker; They could have made a caster tank along the lines of the mage and priest like you’re suggesting, and they would even have a basis for it via the Black Dragonflight, and abilities/mechanics via Deathwing HotS.

    However, they didn’t do it, and I think that’s a VERY big clue on how Blizzard views the tank role; When it comes to tanking, they are VERY conservative with design. We saw this with the developer who attempted to make Warlock a legitimate tank in MoP, and he was completely overruled by the design team.

    In short, WoW tanks will always be melee, and always be similar to other existing tanks in general design. They will have a few quirks and semi-unique forms of mitigation that will make them seem different, but when you break it down, they’re going to have shared elements. You’re probably never going to see a ranged tank of ANY kind in WoW. Evokers not getting a tank spec when there are no mail tanks (and the dragon concept supports such a spec) proves it.
    Their laziness has nothing to do with possibility.
    They could, and should, have added a third ranged spellcasting Demon Hunter spec with the Demon Hunter class in Legion, but they didn't. They could barely come up with abilities for the two remaining specs. They just lack in that department i guess, developer-wise.
    Last edited by username993720; 2022-05-10 at 06:42 AM.

  20. #660
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Humans are prone to mistakes.
    so that’s a yes you think you take precedent over blizzard, Lol.



    Then, why are you advocating for more of this? Just be a Hunter.
    exactly just be a hunter and the abilities can be part of the talent tree with other item abilities like blizzard said they were doing.

    I’m happy we agree that dark rangers aren’t needed as a class.


    It's literally the mimicry of wild animals. I don't know how it can be any more obvious.
    Hots is literally not wow lore, I don’t know how It can be any more obvious.



    WC3 is canon as far as i know. You just have a very special world view when it comes to WoW lore.
    we’ve already had this back and forth and you’ve already failed to show that these abilities translate to dark rangers in lore or even just Wow gameplay.



    Blessed by a Loa and using its powers are 2 different things.
    I mean it is as that’s how almost all Trolls use Loa powers excluding those in ZD that steal them.



    It has been a staple of Dark Ranger lore for years. Everyone knew Dark Rangers used necromancy after they were raised and lost connection with the wilds. It's basic Dark Ranger information.
    it’s never been canon and has never showed up outside of the RPG, the amount of years you have been wrong doesn’t change that you are wrong it just means you haven’t bothered to read any of the lore for years which has been incredibly clear through out this thread.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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