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  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aydinx2 View Post
    If you want the loot rewards from those difficulties, you need to beat those difficulties. Welcome to "how videogames should work".

    You can literally get more gear than ever without entering even LFR mode. But you people are just never happy until your new character spawns in with full BiS gear.

    It's sad that you think the game is gating anything from you when it is your own lack of skill and effort that stops you from getting it. And somehow you managed to spin it in such a way that the people who do take the effort are the bad ones.
    Getting past the freakishly racist “you people” sort of arguments, I would like to point you to the fact that the difficulties faced by “us people” is not playing against the game but playing with people of this demeanor and attitude.

    People with this mindset are a major deterrent and a detriment to WoW as a whole. Honestly, every time I have to choose “play with someone like that or play something else” I choose something else.

    Or wait is it a secret that the “precious” end game is hogged by a select few organized guilds who don’t recruit because they prefer to sell services for rl money or for gold. Are we going to be honest about the state of end game WoW or are we going to pretend this is not happening.

    I am a client of blizzard. I am not a client of you or any other player. Treating me as a client instead of a co-player is the main source of all problems. The sooner you figure it the longer the game will last.

    So, to ask for soloable content is to ask to be free of dependency of the whims of every other player. Which I think is one of the most rightful things one can ask.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Nobody is gating you from anything, but you.
    Dependency on other players is a major gating factor wouldn’t you agree? Not to mention that dependency is not only on the others per se but also on their latency, their pc hardware, their schedule, their life obligations etc.

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Or wait is it a secret that the “precious” end game is hogged by a select few organized guilds who don’t recruit because they prefer to sell services for rl money or for gold. Are we going to be honest about the state of end game WoW or are we going to pretend this is not happening.
    This tinfoil hat moment counters your whole 5.108 and brands you are clueless.

    I cant even comprehend how stupid this is to not even be ashamed to type.

    Or are you that amazing that Method and Echo and Limit are asking you to pay to join thier guild?

    Stop blaming the tokens for your lack of skill to do basic difficulty content.

    I know people that went to Mythic raiding and CE in 3 months of starting the game.

    1)Cause they want to get better.

    2)They are playing around people that affect them positively and teach them properly.

    3)Its not a solo content game, stop spamming the forums with such pointless dribble, do your content and unsub if you dont wanna group up.

    Stop asking the game to change cause you have reached the cieling of your "skill".

    Or i can assume you are worst than my ex-gf that has many AOTCs and even somehow parsed in the 80s while not being able to turn properly without losing her camera, cause thats how easy the game is.
    Last edited by potis; 2022-05-17 at 01:01 PM.

  3. #723
    I am Murloc! Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    This tinfoil hat moment counters your whole 5.108 and brands you are clueless.

    I cant even comprehend how stupid this is to not even be ashamed to type.

    Or are you that amazing that Method and Echo and Limit are asking you to pay to join thier guild?
    I am not English but this is unreadable. Fix your syntax/grammar start making sense and come again I will be more than happy to respond to anything coherent and remotely polite if you are capable ofcourse of being coherent and polite.


    Infracted for flaming.
    Last edited by xskarma; 2022-05-17 at 08:04 PM.

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So? Questing is designed to be soloable. Tell me, what about this statement is wrong? Because otherwise you're shifting goalposts to talking about 'bullshit' that I didn't say.

    Did I say MMO's are designed to be played Solo? No, I did not. I said Quests are designed to be soloable. And if casuals are only interested in questing solo, then that is how they are playing the game. What you're ignoring is that a majority of the WoW player base is 'intentionally failing to access 70% of the game' because most of it is locked behind mandatory group content which they don't want to do. So they unsub.

    Majority of the WoW player base is doing this. As in, there are millions of casual players who are only playing WoW as a solo experience, and only doing the '30%' if we're to use your numbers as example. And Blizzard has intentionally continued to design WoW with soloable content in mind, for these returning players, without making all quests mandatory group content.



    When did I ever say I wanted to play solo? lol. Not once have I said that here, ever.

    Like, I haven't been subbed to WoW since Cataclysm. Why the fuck would I care about playing solo or not? I only said questing in the game was designed to be soloable. Everything else you're saying is literally projection.
    But what is that 70% you re throwing around? What is the 70% that people cannot access by playing solo? You can literally access anything in the game from a solo perspective without having to verbally engage with anyone.
    There are just varying degrees of difficulty of the same exact thing that you can choose to pursue if a more coordinated group style play is your thing.
    You can go into normal and heroic dungeons as well as LFR and low level M+ without exchanging as much as a single word and pretend the people alongside you are NPCs. They are all near impossible to fail and people will not really bother with you 99% of the time if you are underperforming in those difficulties unless you run across the occasional sweaty nerd.
    Should all these be made soloable too? How do people actively decide to play an MMORPG with the mindset of never engaging with anyone? Theres a myriad of RPGs that offer a vastly superior solo experience.

    EDIT: Unless you count high ilvl gear as content

  5. #725
    Most of us here are long time MMORPG players. Some of us have been playing for over 25 years at this point, within the genre. What makes a good MMORPG? Well many will say it's the community, and the friends you make while playing. Others will say it's the endgame and the challenges you face. All of us will have differing opinions on what does and does not work within the MMORPG space. What I think I can say what's pretty clear is the market has moved past Blizzard at this point. Recently went back and watched this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BazitK-ZgDk

    This highlights all the changes that went on from Blizzard's meteoric rise to it's complete and utter collapse, and yes I'm sorry the company was performing financially well, but within the space of the market and the confidence of MMO players this company has collapsed under it's own ego. What changed? Was it the evil money making activision? Sure, you can argue that. Was it the fact that for decades Blizzard probably covered up multiple sexual harassment scandals? Sure you can argue that too. What I like to think changed is us as players is the single greatest reason why this game feels like it's in a tailspin. Players, the vast majority of them, got better at playing video games.

    Last night I was talking to my roomate about MMORPGs. He played classic WoW from Vanilla till mid way through Wrath. I played EQ from 2001-2007. Suffice to say our experiences were slightly different. WoW at the time had a ton of features I thought were ez mode. Then when I heard a player hit max level within a month of playing after WoW launched, my guild and I laughed about how WoW was the ez mode MMORPG. My roommate told me about the leveling process and how wanted to play that in a modern MMORPG. It dawned on me then that really the vanilla versions of WoW, and EQ too, aren't hard games. Honestly go play classic WoW right now and tell me that is a hard game? P99 is very much even more guilty of this "faux difficulty" I mean your Action Per Minute is what 2-4 keys at most? The most difficult aspect of these games is you need other players to do content to level (in EQ's sense absolutely, WoW lesser, but still relevant). This is where most people met their guilds, played with players, and found groups to run content with. The mechanics of boss fights back then were simplistic.

    Problem WoW faces, and I think this is a broader conversation about video games in general, but it's particularly relevant for MMORPGs, is that there's no happy medium that casuals engage in this long process but do so with numbers that players having the opportunity to game together are abundant. Sure you can say well the endgame has tons of players! But we all know based on the forum posts here this what I've established:

    •M+ is not casual content, it's not designed to be.
    •Heroic Raiding, and especially Mythic Raiding is not casual content
    •Ranked PVP is not casual content

    LFR, Mission Table, LFD, and WQ are all casual content. But this content isn't actually challenging. Many will say players are expected to auto-win on this content because it's queued, or it's demanded otherwise forum traffic will be all hell. Now I find this argument to be silly. It's childish to think players whining on the forums have any ability to alter the actual design schedule of developers. I either get told the devs don't look at forums, because it's small microcosm of players, or that all the calls for nerfs from the forums will lead to devs nerfing your favorite content! It's like please make up your minds as to what it is because if one is true then it implies the other is not. But to the larger point which is we're at a crossroads with MMORPGs right now. How are we at a crossroads? Well it seems the old MMORPG formula from EQ has run it's course in the gaming market. What do I mean by this? Well any single-player, open world, RPG does what MMORPGs used to do exclusively well for so long, it's just they do it better. Take Skyrim as an example, arguably one of the best RPGs of the past decade, I'd argue--It's an open world RPG where basically anything you do in the game is going to be rewarded. Want to play a fighter, well the game won't punish you for that. Want to play an alchemist, well the game won't punish you for that. Meanwhile back on the MMORPG ranch if you're not the optimal spec for the encounter you're not going to be doing that content. If you fail to meet a timer you're punished for failure. Take Souls games, while notably difficult, the penalty for death is just that you die and you go and repeat what you just did all over again. No punishment for failure, respawn and try again, maybe at worst you have to go through an encounter that you already did, but after enough tries you figure out what will and won't work. MMORPGs though, well there's other people and you could be wasting their time.

    Problem I see with regards to casual play and why the game feels bad is a three-fold problem:

    •The story isn't worth the time. If WoW had a good story the complaints you'd see would be very minimal I feel. This story is so convoluted that players don't even want to know what or where the lore is headed because honestly who cares at this point. WoW will comes up with a dope CGI trailer that looks awesome, and then you get plot points like Sylvanas commits genocide, then betrays her faction, then betrays Azeroth, then realized why she's bad, then flips in the end. Wooooo haven't seen that one before anywhere, ever..../s

    • The content gear shift from leveling is so extreme. Even if you were to level this off I think a big problem the game has right now is the endgame is this massive system upon system, and during your leveling process there's next to no instruction on what the endgame actually looks like. I'm sorry but WoW at this point if interrupts are going to be so critical should update their UI to show who's not on CD, I know add-ons do this, but again add-ons are outside the base game, which again proves as a barrier to entry. If the game is going to be designed around these mechanics the devs need to implement a system during the leveling process that instructs players about this, and this is only just one example. Soaking, gathering, and just basic coordination mechanics have to be taught from the game at this point, because there isn't the numbers and the community size that exist to foster this type of learning.

    • Professions are a joke. They know it that's why they're focusing on it next expansion, so we'll see what and where they fall.

    For example to illustrate my point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AZmuZNu5LA

    That's the new Harry Potter game scheduled for this fall/winter. Literally why does that look like MMO concepts in an open world, and looks like it'll be a blast. Although--I have my doubts because HP seems to be a fad that we grew up with versus a long lasting IP that's comparable to SW. But that's another topic. Point is notice how that game feels like an actual breathing living world. Most open world RPGs today have. The problem WoW faces right now is that players became more skilled and with that skill they became less patient. This is the problem casual players face. So MMOs right now are trying to adapt to the increasing skill demands of players; And this is the hottest of hot takes: The worst player right now is probably more mechanically skilled at WoW than some of the best players back in vanilla. It's like arguing who's more skilled Lebron or Michael-- which is a pointless conversation to have because the two of them play in two completely different leagues. Would Mike dominate in today's league? Maybe, would he be Mike compared to everyone around him, probably not. Would Lebron do well in Mike's league, probably, but he wouldn't be playing until he's 35 like he is right now. So you have to apply the standard in which you're in currently. Which to me had me thinking is the game designed around the top 5%? Overall probably not; but the only thing that's consistent in terms of making people happy are these over-the-top mechanics that depend on add-on support. It keeps a niche crowd happy, that's why you see so much pushback from people because the people who do this content are typically very happy.

    But where does that leave the company? Honestly after watching Pandora's Box I'm not sure how you can make the argument that Blizzard was an asset MS was targeting. Think of it this way from 2016-2021 the majority of senior leadership at Blizzard had either resigned and gone elsewhere, or got canned because of sexual misconduct. Like what company would want to buy a ship that looks to be sinking from leadership. I know it's profitable, but the quarterly's don't lie, the gem in Activision is CK.

    What I think happens from here? DF tries it's hardest to appease everyone. It tries to service the community Ion acknowledged they currently left. It tries to service it's most dedicated hardcore gamers, but only finds itself bending over backward to slow them down for fear they'll leave. I think what happens here is MS acquires Activision/Blizz and moves WoW to the Gamepass and eliminates it's monthly sub for the gamepass sub essentially moving it f2p. Keeps the cash store and releases the same schedule and just profits from the wheel for a bit. And really I think this maybe the last post I make on this topic because I've been up and down and all around this topic and I just can't think of what WoW offers that'll innovate the formula. I think they've reached their endpoint. The only thing now that can change WoW and the MMORPG landscape in it's entirety is an advanced AI that has the ability to break out of a "scripted" mode and alter the world as you play. But we're a few years away from that even being attempted.

    Last edited by Miffinat0r; 2022-05-17 at 01:13 PM.

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I am not English but this is unreadable. Fix your syntax/grammar start making sense and come again I will be more than happy to respond to anything coherent and remotely polite if you are capable ofcourse of being coherent and polite.
    Minus the fact that "are" should be "as" what exactly was unreadable from what he said? Its not perfect English but its 100% understandable

  7. #727
    I am Murloc! Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Or i can assume you are worst than my ex-gf that has many AOTCs and even somehow parsed in the 80s while not being able to turn properly without losing her camera, cause thats how easy the game is.
    I try to find even 1 sensible reason why someone would be so mad about an opinion he disagrees with but I guess it is enough to keep this quote as the reason why WoW should offer viable options to players who don’t wish to interact with people like you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    Minus the fact that "are" should be "as" what exactly was unreadable from what he said? Its not perfect English but its 100% understandable
    Fair enough, I still can’t comprehend it. And your problem is?

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by Miffinat0r View Post
    Most of us here are long time MMORPG players. Some of us have been playing for over 25 years at this point, within the genre. What makes a good MMORPG? Well many will say it's the community, and the friends you make while playing. Others will say it's the endgame and the challenges you face. All of us will have differing opinions on what does and does not work within the MMORPG space. What I think I can say what's pretty clear is the market has moved past Blizzard at this point. Recently went back and watched this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BazitK-ZgDk

    This highlights all the changes that went on from Blizzard's meteoric rise to it's complete and utter collapse, and yes I'm sorry the company was performing financially well, but within the space of the market and the confidence of MMO players this company has collapsed under it's own ego. What changed? Was it the evil money making activision? Sure, you can argue that. Was it the fact that for decades Blizzard probably covered up multiple sexual harassment scandals? Sure you can argue that too. What I like to think changed is us as players is the single greatest reason why this game feels like it's in a tailspin. Players, the vast majority of them, got better at playing video games.

    Last night I was talking to my roomate about MMORPGs. He played classic WoW from Vanilla till mid way through Wrath. I played EQ from 2001-2007. Suffice to say our experiences were slightly different. WoW at the time had a ton of features I thought were ez mode. Then when I heard a player hit max level within a month of playing after WoW launched, my guild and I laughed about how WoW was the ez mode MMORPG. My roommate told me about the leveling process and how wanted to play that in a modern MMORPG. It dawned on me then that really the vanilla versions of WoW, and EQ too, aren't hard games. Honestly go play classic WoW right now and tell me that is a hard game? P99 is very much even more guilty of this "faux difficulty" I mean your Action Per Minute is what 2-4 keys at most? The most difficult aspect of these games is you need other players to do content to level (in EQ's sense absolutely, WoW lesser, but still relevant). This is where most people met their guilds, played with players, and found groups to run content with. The mechanics of boss fights back then were simplistic.

    Problem WoW faces, and I think this is a broader conversation about video games in general, but it's particularly relevant for MMORPGs, is that there's no happy medium that casuals engage in this long process but do so with numbers that players having the opportunity to game together are abundant. Sure you can say well the endgame has tons of players! But we all know based on the forum posts here this what I've established:

    •M+ is not casual content, it's not designed to be.
    •Heroic Raiding, and especially Mythic Raiding is not casual content
    •Ranked PVP is not casual content

    LFR, Mission Table, LFD, and WQ are all casual content. But this content isn't actually challenging. Many will say players are expected to auto-win on this content because it's queued, or it's demanded otherwise forum traffic will be all hell. Now I find this argument to be silly. It's childish to think players whining on the forums have any ability to alter the actual design schedule of developers. I either get told the devs don't look at forums, because it's small microcosm of players, or that all the calls for nerfs from the forums will lead to devs nerfing your favorite content! It's like please make up your minds as to what it is because if one is true then it implies the other is not. But to the larger point which is we're at a crossroads with MMORPGs right now. How are we at a crossroads? Well it seems the old MMORPG formula from EQ has run it's course in the gaming market. What do I mean by this? Well any single-player, open world, RPG does what MMORPGs used to do exclusively well for so long, it's just they do it better. Take Skyrim as an example, arguably one of the best RPGs of the past decade, I'd argue--It's an open world RPG where basically anything you do in the game is going to be rewarded. Want to play a fighter, well the game won't punish you for that. Want to play an alchemist, well the game won't punish you for that. Meanwhile back on the MMORPG ranch if you're not the optimal spec for the encounter you're not going to be doing that content. If you fail to meet a timer you're punished for failure. Take Souls games, while notably difficult, the penalty for death is just that you die and you go and repeat what you just did all over again. No punishment for failure, respawn and try again, maybe at worst you have to go through an encounter that you already did, but after enough tries you figure out what will and won't work. MMORPGs though, well there's other people and you could be wasting their time.

    Problem I see with regards to casual play and why the game feels bad is a three-fold problem:

    •The story isn't worth the time. If WoW had a good story the complaints you'd see would be very minimal I feel. This story is so convoluted that players don't even want to know what or where the lore is headed because honestly who cares at this point. WoW will comes up with a dope CGI trailer that looks awesome, and then you get plot points like Sylvanas commits genocide, then betrays her faction, then betrays Azeroth, then realized why she's bad, then flips in the end. Wooooo haven't seen that one before anywhere, ever..../s

    • The content gear shift from leveling is so extreme. Even if you were to level this off I think a big problem the game has right now is the endgame is this massive system upon system, and during your leveling process there's next to no instruction on what the endgame actually looks like. I'm sorry but WoW at this point if interrupts are going to be so critical should update their UI to show who's not on CD, I know add-ons do this, but again add-ons are outside the base game, which again proves as a barrier to entry. If the game is going to be designed around these mechanics the devs need to implement a system during the leveling process that instructs players about this, and this is only just one example. Soaking, gathering, and just basic coordination mechanics have to be taught from the game at this point, because there isn't the numbers and the community size that exist to foster this type of learning.

    • Professions are a joke. They know it that's why they're focusing on it next expansion, so we'll see what and where they fall.

    For example to illustrate my point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AZmuZNu5LA

    That's the new Harry Potter game scheduled for this fall/winter. Literally why does that look like MMO concepts in an open world, and looks like it'll be a blast. Although--I have my doubts because HP seems to be a fad that we grew up with versus a long lasting IP that's comparable to SW. But that's another topic. Point is notice how that game feels like an actual breathing living world. Most open world RPGs today have. The problem WoW faces right now is that players became more skilled and with that skill they became less patient. This is the problem casual players face. So MMOs right now are trying to adapt to the increasing skill demands of players; And this is the hottest of hot takes: The worst player right now is probably more mechanically skilled at WoW than some of the best players back in vanilla. It's like arguing who's more skilled Lebron or Michael-- which is a pointless conversation to have because the two of them play in two completely different leagues. Would Mike dominate in today's league? Maybe, would he be Mike compared to everyone around him, probably not. Would Lebron do well in Mike's league, probably, but he wouldn't be playing until he's 35 like he is right now. So you have to apply the standard in which you're in currently. Which to me had me thinking is the game designed around the top 5%? Overall probably not; but the only thing that's consistent in terms of making people happy are these over-the-top mechanics that depend on add-on support. It keeps a niche crowd happy, that's why you see so much pushback from people because the people who do this content are typically very happy.

    But where does that leave the company? Honestly after watching Pandora's Box I'm not sure how you can make the argument that Blizzard was an asset MS was targeting. Think of it this way from 2016-2021 the majority of senior leadership at Blizzard had either resigned and gone elsewhere, or got canned because of sexual misconduct. Like what company would want to buy a ship that looks to be sinking from leadership. I know it's profitable, but the quarterly's don't lie, the gem in Activision is CK.

    What I think happens from here? DF tries it's hardest to appease everyone. It tries to service the community Ion acknowledged they currently left. It tries to service it's most dedicated hardcore gamers, but only finds itself bending over backward to slow them down for fear they'll leave. And really I think this maybe the last post I make on this topic because I've been up and down and all around this topic and I just can't think of what WoW offers that'll innovate the formula. I think they've reached their endpoint. The only thing now that can change WoW and the MMORPG landscape in it's entirety is an advanced AI that has the ability to break out of a "scripted" mode and alter the world as you play. But we're a few years away from that even being attempted.
    This is more of a community problem though as all of the specs are perfectly capable of clearing all content. Some are slightly better than others but the community adapts a very specific mentality that does not even apply to their group/skill level and makes it absolute. It is usually also lower skill level players that adapt this mentality and not the higher skilled players.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I try to find even 1 sensible reason why someone would be so mad about an opinion he disagrees with but I guess it is enough to keep this quote as the reason why WoW should offer viable options to players who don’t wish to interact with people like you.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Fair enough, I still can’t comprehend it. And your problem is?
    My "problem", if you can even call it that, is that he debunked your asinine statement about top guilds gatekeeping endgame content (like literally what the actual fuck) and you resorted to attacking his English because you did not have an answer to what he said.

  9. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibiki View Post
    I'm very disappointed with whole announcement. No single world about casual and solo players.
    Imo Ion again will focus on raiders and make ppl quit fast.
    If you can't find some casual activity in a game with 18years of backlog... I'm sorry, but - it's just not the game for you.

    Accept/Exit Game - Blizzard.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-05-17 at 01:26 PM.

  10. #730
    I am Murloc! Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    My "problem", if you can even call it that, is that he debunked your asinine statement about top guilds gatekeeping endgame content (like literally what the actual fuck) and you resorted to attacking his English because you did not have an answer to what he said.
    Calling me “stupid” and making cliche references to “tin foil hats” (a favored movie cliche argument) did not “debunk” my “asinine statements” (another favored cliche of mmoc posters).

    Saying I could hardly comprehend let alone response to the torrent of nonsense that I had to read again and again is NOT an attack on one’s English it’s a call that one be coherent so I can understand why he is being so abusive and insulting.

    Get your facts straight and stop trying to make an impression out of fake things you make up as you go it doesn’t work.

    Edit: Top guilds sell gear. In every server. It doesn’t have to be “Method” you know any guild that can clear the content then sells gear. This is why they never recruit anymore or they recruit as little as possible. That’s a fact not something made up.
    Last edited by Motorman; 2022-05-17 at 01:27 PM.

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Getting past the freakishly racist “you people” sort of arguments, I would like to point you to the fact that the difficulties faced by “us people” is not playing against the game but playing with people of this demeanor and attitude.

    People with this mindset are a major deterrent and a detriment to WoW as a whole. Honestly, every time I have to choose “play with someone like that or play something else” I choose something else.

    Or wait is it a secret that the “precious” end game is hogged by a select few organized guilds who don’t recruit because they prefer to sell services for rl money or for gold. Are we going to be honest about the state of end game WoW or are we going to pretend this is not happening.

    I am a client of blizzard. I am not a client of you or any other player. Treating me as a client instead of a co-player is the main source of all problems. The sooner you figure it the longer the game will last.

    So, to ask for soloable content is to ask to be free of dependency of the whims of every other player. Which I think is one of the most rightful things one can ask.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Dependency on other players is a major gating factor wouldn’t you agree? Not to mention that dependency is not only on the others per se but also on their latency, their pc hardware, their schedule, their life obligations etc.
    How are ppl blocking you from their "precious endgame"?.

    People don't have to play with you. Just like you arent forced to play with ppl you don't want to. Which endgame are you bring excluded from? If it's mythic raids, do you have heroic raid clears and logs? If its heroic raiding guilds, do you have normal clears and some pug heroic bosses? Or are you just talking abt pugs not inviting you. Just make your own group, or realize who you are competing against for the raid slot and make yourself more desirable.

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Calling me “stupid” and making cliche references to “tin foil hats” (a favored movie cliche argument) did not “debunk” my “asinine statements” (another favored cliche of mmoc posters).

    Saying I could hardly comprehend let alone response to the torrent of nonsense that I had to read again and again is NOT an attack on one’s English it’s a call that one be coherent so I can understand why he is being so abusive and insulting.

    Get your facts straight and stop trying to make an impression out of fake things you make up as you go it doesn’t work.

    Edit: Top guilds sell gear. In every server. It doesn’t have to be “Method” you know any guild that can clear the content then sells gear. This is why they never recruit anymore or they recruit as little as possible. That’s a fact not something made up.
    If you attract that much negative attention from a bunch of people - maybe you are the unpopular opinion. And maybe you should consider your own suggestions first and/or "facts".
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-05-17 at 01:34 PM.

  13. #733
    I am Murloc! Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    If you attract that much negative attention from a bunch of people - maybe you are the unpopular minority. And maybe you should consider your own suggestions first and/or "facts".

    “Negative attention” is not a measure of anything especially in this forum where it’s habit that people take a high stance pretending they belong to the player elite that frowns upon everyone with different ideas.

    An obligatory armory would tell a very different story and perhaps the posts would somehow be different and more honest.

    I have my views and voice them i do not expect to be applauded for them and I don’t care if someone hates me for them. In the end it’s just a pointless passing of time since nothing of what we say here will ever impact anything in WoW. So fire away if you have to but please don’t ever think that your “negative attention” means fuck all to me

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    This is more of a community problem though as all of the specs are perfectly capable of clearing all content. Some are slightly better than others but the community adapts a very specific mentality that does not even apply to their group/skill level and makes it absolute. It is usually also lower skill level players that adapt this mentality and not the higher skilled players.
    To a point--but again when everyone is first farming, which we know is when the peak of players are playing together, even the high-end players when something first launches only play with optimal specs. Arguing otherwise seems anecdotal. This maybe a community aspect but lets not pretend that high-end players ignore this; maybe they ignore after their first raid team is geared, but the point remains there's not enough people that allow for this because the game has fallen dramatically.

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    “Negative attention” is not a measure of anything especially in this forum where it’s habit that people take a high stance pretending they belong to the player elite that frowns upon everyone with different ideas.

    An obligatory armory would tell a very different story and perhaps the posts would somehow be different and more honest.

    I have my views and voice them i do not expect to be applauded for them and I don’t care if someone hates me for them. In the end it’s just a pointless passing of time since nothing of what we say here will ever impact anything in WoW. So fire away if you have to but please don’t ever think that your “negative attention” means fuck all to me
    You basicly admit that you are trolling?

    Don't worry - you defiantly don't suggest ANYTHING remotely relatable, that could be a good change or something they would pick up. It starts with earning the respect of the community.

  16. #736
    I am Murloc! Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    How are ppl blocking you from their "precious endgame"?.

    People don't have to play with you. Just like you arent forced to play with ppl you don't want to. Which endgame are you bring excluded from? If it's mythic raids, do you have heroic raid clears and logs? If its heroic raiding guilds, do you have normal clears and some pug heroic bosses? Or are you just talking abt pugs not inviting you. Just make your own group, or realize who you are competing against for the raid slot and make yourself more desirable.
    I have explained so many times and yet I get reaction posts like this that are based on a fraction of what I have said. To give you an insight though:

    Same as you don’t have to play with me I don’t want to have to play with you. So the game should provide us all as clients of the game with options that allow us to not play with others and still play at our desired level of difficulty without dependency.

    Make all the game ALSO playable mage tower style. Why would that bother you who don’t want to play with me?

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    Calling me “stupid” and making cliche references to “tin foil hats” (a favored movie cliche argument) did not “debunk” my “asinine statements” (another favored cliche of mmoc posters).

    Saying I could hardly comprehend let alone response to the torrent of nonsense that I had to read again and again is NOT an attack on one’s English it’s a call that one be coherent so I can understand why he is being so abusive and insulting.

    Get your facts straight and stop trying to make an impression out of fake things you make up as you go it doesn’t work.

    Edit: Top guilds sell gear. In every server. It doesn’t have to be “Method” you know any guild that can clear the content then sells gear. This is why they never recruit anymore or they recruit as little as possible. That’s a fact not something made up.
    Of course they do. And I dislike this as much as anyone but the problem there stems from blizzard forcing a billion gear loops for them to be able to compete in the WF race. But lets take the WF guilds out of the equation and instead focus on the more "normal" CE guilds on each server that also sell gear.
    How does this prevent you from accessing that content? If you think you could be part of such a guild and are prevented of achieving this by the mere fact that said guilds are not recruiting on purpose, I am 110% sure that there are 19 other likeminded players that you could band with and go clear this content. Are the aforementioned CE guilds going to bodyblock the entrance to mythic sepulcher?

  18. #738
    I am Murloc! Motorman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    You basicly admit that you are trolling?

    Don't worry - you defiantly don't suggest ANYTHING remotely relatable, that could be a good change or something they would pick up. It starts with earning the respect of the community.
    I have made plenty of suggestions regarding the game all you ever did was resort to trash talk and ad hominem attacks.

    As for “respect from the community” that’s in the game not in a forum. I have explained in many threads and posts what I stand for. If you like it ok if you don’t like it still ok. I am completely indifferent to your opinion and existence. I am not sure why it matters so much to you to gain my attention.

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    How are ppl blocking you from their "precious endgame"?.

    People don't have to play with you. Just like you arent forced to play with ppl you don't want to. Which endgame are you bring excluded from? If it's mythic raids, do you have heroic raid clears and logs? If its heroic raiding guilds, do you have normal clears and some pug heroic bosses? Or are you just talking abt pugs not inviting you. Just make your own group, or realize who you are competing against for the raid slot and make yourself more desirable.
    This guy and I had fight in some other thread - this was my take away:

    1)He was complaining about toxicity in this community and also admitting that he got some social issues(meanwhile no contribution towards constructive and positive atmosphere as you noticed).

    2)He believes that cutting himself out socially, makes the game more pleasureable.

    3)He believes that Blizzard is obliged to implement features, so that this person(and other people, who are not capable of handling social situations)can enjoy the game. Personal note - I can handle it, depsite my own problems - as I reject to blame the game(I did try my best to guide).

    4)He ignores the sustainability of the game - from a very narrow egocentric perspective.

    Have these in your notes - also he got me banned - because I lost it with the f-word due to frustrations.

    He is just worth getting mad over.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-05-17 at 02:00 PM.

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I have explained so many times and yet I get reaction posts like this that are based on a fraction of what I have said. To give you an insight though:

    Same as you don’t have to play with me I don’t want to have to play with you. So the game should provide us all as clients of the game with options that allow us to not play with others and still play at our desired level of difficulty without dependency.

    Make all the game ALSO playable mage tower style. Why would that bother you who don’t want to play with me?
    I wouldn't care if they did this but im letting you know right now that they aren't going to do that. The game has been the way it is for 17 years. If you are looking for a hard solo experience, wow is not a great fit for you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    This guy and I had fight in some other thread - this was my take away:

    1)He was complaining about toxicity in this community and also admitting that he got some social issues(meanwhile no contribution towards constructive and positive atmosphere as you noticed).

    2)He believes that cutting himself out socially, makes the game more pleasureable.

    3)He believes that Blizzard is obliged to implement features, so that this person(and other people, who are not capable of handling social situations)can enjoy the game. Personal note - I can handle it, depsite my problems.

    4)He ignores the sustainability of the game.

    Have these in your notes - also he got me banned - because I lost it with the f-word.
    Gotcha. I can understand ppl wanting things but be realistic. Wow isn't gonna change the way he wants it to. I dont understand ppls obsession with demanding changes on a forum instead of just playing a game that is already the way they want

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