"Catering to 5% of your player base will leave you with 5% of your player base"

[Ashana Darkmoon]

It depends on how long they've been playing to some extent. I don't play a lot. I'm aggressively casual and from time to time I take a few months off. However, I have a deep interest and investment in two characters I've been playing for over ten years. So I don't buy the idea that people are not connected to the game because they are whatever casual is not. When any sense of progression stops outside of raiding and M+ then so do I. That has little to do with how connected I am to the game. I'm very connected when I have worthwhile (in my opinion) things to do.

Out of curiosity, have you been getting the raid gear from ZM and the 291 legendaries and/or crafted stuff?

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Anecdotally speaking, the casual players that I have talked to over the years don't really care about game developer politics, they just see this as blanket entertainment, and consume it as it comes. It's like how you treat a movie franchise that you might not be a particular big fan of, but still willing to watch for the sake of entertainment. 'If there's something that interests me I'll check it out'. And frankly, WoW simply does a mediocre job of presenting their progression and end game story in a way that is accessible to most players.

I don't really get the impression that the casual players I've talked to were feeling spited by Blizzard at all for not having content designed in the way they would like the game to be, in the same way most people don't see a director being particularly spiteful to a casual audience for making a mediocre movie, while a hardcore fan might feel differently and take it personally. Like, the hardcore Star Wars fans I know talk about the Star Wars sequels as if Kathleen Kennedy is personally shitting in their cheerios, while most casual Star Wars fans I know tend to give a blanket 'I liked it' or 'I didn't like it' response without feeling like they were being disrespected. At its worst, they would just see it as a 'bad movie'.

I think that's pretty accurate. People who know who Ion is and follow patch notes and content creators aren't casual by any meaningful definition. They're more likely to be jaded lifestyle players of a past era.

That's probably the biggest phenomenon with all IPs, ya? The jaded old schoolers (who are sometimes right!) who are basically forever connected to X even if they hate it. Every tv show thread here is filled with people hate watching stuff lol

[MoanaLisa]

Out of curiosity, have you been getting the raid gear from ZM and the 291 legendaries and/or crafted stuff?

I will eventually. The phrase in my post about 'worthwhile things' has some depth in it. What I view as worth doing changes from week to week. I have some tolerance for busy work but it's not unlimited.

EDIT: Obviously I'm in no hurry. At best I play a couple of days a week, sometimes not at all. But to reiterate that doesn't mean that I don't have a connection, a long history, and significant feelings about a game that's been in my life in different degrees for about 13 years.

[VMSmith]

But to reiterate that doesn't mean that I don't have a connection, a long history, and significant feelings about a game that's been in my life in different degrees for about 13 years.

Sorry, but if you don't Mythic raid and time +20s regularly you clearly don't love Warcraft enough and deserve nothing because you'll just quit 5 minutes after a patch or expansion launches anyway, so why should Blizzard give you anything to do in the first place?

Right?

[MoanaLisa]

Sorry, but if you don't Mythic raid and time +20s regularly you clearly don't love Warcraft enough and deserve nothing because you'll just quit 5 minutes after a patch or expansion launches anyway, so why should Blizzard give you anything to do in the first place?

Right?

I suppose some people feel that way. I don’t let it bother me too much because there’s so much gaslighting that goes on. WoW (and your toons) is like family for a lot of people. You don’t need to see your extended family every day to still care about them.

[Neotart]

I'm very disappointed with whole announcement. No single world about casual and solo players.
Imo Ion again will focus on raiders and make ppl quit fast.

I think u dont know what MMORPG stands for, if u wana play solo go play Skyrim or Elden Ring

[Triceron]

I think u dont know what MMORPG stands for, if u wana play solo go play Skyrim or Elden Ring

The definition literally just means 'Many people playing this same game, online'. How people choose to play online is up to the player, and otherwise not defined as having to group up to do content.

When the new expansion hits, I'm gonna bet you and most of your buddies going to solo the questing content.

[Neotart]

The definition literally just means 'Many people playing this same game, online'. How people choose to play online is up to the player, and otherwise not defined as having to group up to do content.

When the new expansion hits, I'm gonna bet you and most of your buddies going to solo the questing content.

Uhm it stands for "massively multiplayer online role-playing game", always has. wth
And yeah u would lose that bet.

[Triceron]

Uhm it stands for "massively multiplayer online role-playing game", always has. wth

Yeah and it just means 'Many people playing this game online'.

Any no point does it mean "You aren't meant to play this game solo". People have been able to treat MMO's as a solo experience since always.

[Neotart]

Yeah and it just means 'Many people playing this game online'.

Any no point does it mean "You aren't meant to play this game solo". People have been able to treat MMO's as a solo experience since always.

"treat" yeah,,, uh doesnt mean its intended to play in a such way, do people expect Blizz to make solo dungs? Solo raids? ignorant af.

[Utrrabbit]

So very this. I mean sure I don't think they will ever give a fuck but when players like me who paid x18 years simply unsub I mean they should really see something is not going well.

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Yes it is and kindly tell me what major achievement can one get SOLO in wow? How far can pugs go? 2k pvp and 2-3 bosses mythic? Even the high end M+ can't be done solo grouping not without major pains that are NOT worth it.

You should literally never be able to do top end content solo. To even think so is fucking stupid and should not be taken remotely seriously.

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Yeah and it just means 'Many people playing this game online'.

Any no point does it mean "You aren't meant to play this game solo". People have been able to treat MMO's as a solo experience since always.

No...it literally means...'play and group with others" to think the opposite is moronic.

[VMSmith]

Yeah and it just means 'Many people playing this game online'.

Any no point does it mean "You aren't meant to play this game solo". People have been able to treat MMO's as a solo experience since always.

Interestingly, before WoW grouping in MMOs was an aberration. Massively Multiplayer has always meant playing in a persistent game world that many others were also playing in. Instancing and grouping are late comers to the genre.

Grouping probably first really became a thing in Everquest.

[Drusin]

"treat" yeah,,, uh doesnt mean its intended to play in a such way, do people expect Blizz to make solo dungs? Solo raids? ignorant af.

Doesn't mean it's intended you group either, if it were called Massively Multiplayer Online Grouping Role Playing Game you'd have yourself an argument lol.

MMORPG just means there's a lot of people in the same online space as you. You're under no obligation to interact with them.

[Triceron]

No...it literally means...'play and group with others" to think the opposite is moronic.

That's always been an optional thing in MMO's, and continues to be today. No MMO is built around a mandatory group experience. Questing and exploration have always been staples of the genre, and designed to be played solo.

"treat" yeah,,, uh doesnt mean its intended to play in a such way, do people expect Blizz to make solo dungs? Solo raids? ignorant af.

I don't expect them to, but I expect them to provide more content that is solo viable.

And frankly, if 9.2's open content progression and the 10.0 profession revamps are any concern, it seems like a step in the right direction.

[Neotart]

[QUOTE=Yagsdom;53766297]?

I don’t think YOU understand what mmorpg means my friend, raids and dungeons should not be the core of mmorpgs. That’s not the definition of them.

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U must play on Moonguard.

[Glazey]

That's always been an optional thing in MMO's, and continues to be today. No MMO is built around a mandatory group experience. Questing and exploration have always been staples of the genre, and designed to be played solo.

Delusional take. They are most certainly are not designed to be done solo, they're designed to be done either solo or with a group. Hefty difference between the two.

[arkanon]

?

I don’t think YOU understand what mmorpg means my friend, raids and dungeons should not be the core of mmorpgs. That’s not the definition of them.

Tell me something - what does the second "M" in MMORPG stand for?

[Triceron]

Delusional take. They are most certainly are not designed to be done solo, they're designed to be done either solo or with a group. Hefty difference between the two.

"Designed to be able to be played Solo"

Happy?

[cateran100]

Tell me something - what does the second "M" in MMORPG stand for?

Multiplayer and not instanced....

[Glazey]

Really? You ever done a collection quest in a large group? Everyone has to wait for acorns to spawn on the ground and you practically have to do the quests individually, waiting for your turn for them to spawn again.

You can most certainly do them in a group, but I would not say they are particularly designed well for group play. They leave it to the players to decide how to progress with the content they have.

The things that work effectively in groups are the kill quests, which I admit end up comprising a majority of quests in the game.

See, you're contradicting yourself in this single post.

What is efficient isn't factored into quest design, at all. Your statement of "Quests and Exploration are designed to be done solo" is false and you've just said it so yourself.

[Triceron]

See, you're contradicting yourself in this single post.

What is efficient isn't factored into quest design, at all. Your statement of "Quests and Exploration are designed to be done solo" is false and you've just said it so yourself.

"Designed to be able to be played Solo"

Happy?