Thought this thread was reffering to the woke mob.
That is demanding other people have less fun. You told me I was wrong and then repeated the exact argument I made. What you described is someone saying "Not only do I want rewards, but I want others to get less rewards to make me feel good."
Because casuals want gameplay. They want things to do. This isn't about getting raid set bonuses. This is about having a fun set of endgame activities that give meaningful rewards. "Hey we made everything you like to do completely unrewarded, but uh.... set bonus pieces from grinding one zone!" is not the knock-down argument you think it is.2) The game HAS become more and more casual friendly for years now. You literally can get a raid setbonus now for farming open world currency. But despite all of this, the "casuals" keep opening threads like this. Tell me, when does it end? When is there enough casual friendliness? How much more do the "casuals" need?
Every time we ask for things to do, you guys start rambling about mythic level raid gear. You impose your obsession with gear and what other people have onto us. It's like someone saying "I wish there was a local soccer league to play in" and you respond "OH SO YOU WANT A SOCCER TROPHY JUST FOR SHITTING YOUR PANTS ON THE FIELD!?!?!?!?!" It's bizarre.I am flat out certain that the screaming will not end until you can log in and get a set of Mythic raid level gear in your mailbox for the achievment of paying a sub. Probably not even then and that is why these threads are so harmful.
In Final Fantasy almost all I do is play dungeons and raids casually, so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Every day I log into FF14, run some casual dungeons for substantive rewards, run some casual raids for substantive rewards, do some casual pvp for substantive rewards. I can't do any of that in WoW, because the game says that if I want to do dungeons, raids, or pvp for substantive rewards I need to do them at the obnoxious organized level. It won't let me do them casually for rewards.If people do not want to take part in Raids and Dungeons then there is dozens of games they can play that do not focus on them. Why does this one have to change it's core gameplay to please you?
Play FF (which is after all doing everything better then WoW, if you believe these forums) or SWTOR if you prefer solo-content. Let WoW stay the game it has been for 17 years successfully.
Nobody is gating you from anything, but you.
it just sounds very much like you are refusing to understand what we are asking for, and instead inventing this weird strawman who wants to do a daily quest and get a BiS trinket from it.
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Jeff Kaplan was a failed writer who was working for his daddy and playing EQ all day.
Kevin Jordan had never worked on a game before.
Who are you talking about?
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
Where are people getting Kaplan was some OG MMORPG Dev. He wasn't. He was a giant fan of Smedley and McQuaid's work. He literally harassed them up and down the board about their decisions and their reluctance to give in to the high-end community. Him and Asfraibi were literally players who had the backing of devs who were a part of that community. Literally it's the same as Ion.
McQuaid was the OG Dev but he had a drug abuse problem. Smedley was #2 but he sold out to SOE. The devs under them to my knowledge in Kunark got scooped up by Blizz to work on BC. The attunement raid system was literally lifted from PoP from what I've read.
Long story short: Blizz started devlopment on WoW in '99. EQ had launched and was a success in the community. Blizz then started poaching EQ Devs under McQuaid. Basically WoW got huge using EQ's model just made it more casual to get to the endgame. Back then the endgame wasn't particularly hard compared to now. And it looks like from videos and reading all the real MMO talent is either with ESO, GW2, or at Dreamhaven and Riot.
Last edited by Miffinat0r; 2022-05-17 at 03:40 PM.
Welcome to the world of MMOs, I guess? If you can't stomach the social demands of playing with actual people on the internet then, and I ask this as nicely as I can, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?
Play single player games, play an MMO that focusses on solo content like SWTOR, leave the game that has been defined by it's group content for 17 friggin years aloooone. It is clearly not for you.
The world does not revolve around you and your needs, no matter how much you feel that it should.
Btw. what it is with these "casuals" throwing words like "racism" and "discrimination" around because a game doesn't bend to their demands? Don't you think that is quite some abuse of words reserved for actual problems in our world?
There is only one person throwing around those words, and it is you. You are the one with the weird hangup.
WoW used to have a lot more for casual players to do. It's not unreasonable to ask for that back, just like if they stopped making raids it would be reasonable for people who like raids to ask for them back.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
WoW is designed to cater to the 80% of idiots that want idle mobile gameplay.
The game is dead cause it sucks because you idiots want mobile addiction mechanics. Stop buying store mounts and preorders. Stop subbing to collect stuff. FFS.
without raids the game will die, the end. raids are the backbone of the entire mmorpg end game. If anything m+ is killing the game slowly by seperating guilds into two camps, one that playes m+ to get raid loot and the other that raids to get loot for m+. in a perfect world it goes hand in hand but from what I can tell since bfa atleast it divides end game pushing and the ppl playing it. imo though, not sure what other ppl feel.
This is confirmation bias. Because you raid you think raiding is holding everything together. GC even made a post about why LFR exists is because the majority of players don't raid.
I'm not saying raiding isn't important. It is, but to say it's the "backbone" is a bit of a stretch. If anything the World is the backbone, the aesthetic is the backbone, and the experience is the backbone. Raiding is just a bone within the overall spine.
Nope. I only demand that if you realize a game is not for you, that you leave it alone instead of trying to change it in ways that the majority will dislike.
To make a comparion: Let's say you are playing in an organized soccer team for several years. You and your friends in the team are winning and enjoying your time playing.
Then I come along one day and tell you that I have no fun playing with you because I cannot hit the goal and instead of improving or leaving I demand that the goal is increased to double the size and it is no longer allowed to take the ball from me. And obviously I am not satisfied until these changes are made throughout the entire league.
What do you think, how much fun this would be for you and your friends that have spend time to become good players?
Surprise. So do the Raiders and Dungeon players. The only reason why their content looks like it is more is because it is harder and thus needs more effort and time to complete. The casuals in this thread do not want difficulty, they don't want to learn fights or even their own rotation, they do not want effort. So, what is the solution? Blizzard would have to patch every two month at minimum to keep delivering content that the casuals can run through in a day before they can complain again that there is no content.
Casual content would have to be delivered at a much higher pace then non-casual stuff, because it is consumed much faster. I am sure you know that it is simply not realistic to expect that.
I find the idea that "casuals" have by now victimized themselves so hard that they think it is okay to use words like "Discrimination" and "Racism" as legitimations for their complaints a lot more bizarre.
But let us not kid ourselves. The whole issue stems from jealousy. The "casuals" want the things that the non-casuals are getting, but they aren't getting them because of lacking social ability, skill, time, tolerance for frustrationand what not. So they write on these forums and demand everything to be changed so that the people who have the former abilities cannot have things they cannot have. If you want to make yourself believe that this isn't the case, feel free, but I am sure you know that even if you are the 1 in 1000000 exception, the other "casuals" are not.
You illustrate my point. If FF is so much better for you, then play it, with my deepest blessings. Why does WoW need to adopt this? There is a game that does what you want, so why does this other one have to do it too? It's exactly what I mean with the casuals never going to be satisfied. All games have to cater to you or they get bombarded with threads like this.
Where is the problem with different people getting different games to play. Why do you need a casual WoW on top of FF?
I am not inventing anything. People have been asking for high-level gear from inconsequential content for ages. Maybe you don't, but many of your fellow "casuals" do, which means one of two things: Either there is no shared mind-set among the "casuals" or you don't know "your people" very well.
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Lol. This is literally the signature of one of the most outspoken "casuals" in this forum:
Please enlighten me. What casual activities did WoW have? I think we both know that it didn't have any until maybe as late as Legion. In earlier expansions it was even less, because it was expected that you play this game for the group content and that is predominantly what lead to the huge success of this game.
This analogy doesn't even approach making sense, because I'm not asking to play with ayou. I don't even know who is who here. Did I ask for the content you do to be changed? No, so what are we even talking about?
Again, I can't even figure out what you are trying to say, even if I ignore that you seem to take four sentences to provide five words worth of information. WoW doesn't have casual and hardcore content. It just has content. The casual dungeons are the same dungeons as the mythic dungeons. The problem isn't the content or its volume. The problem is how the content is structured and what the rewards look like.Surprise. So do the Raiders and Dungeon players. The only reason why their content looks like it is more is because it is harder and thus needs more effort and time to complete. The casuals in this thread do not want difficulty, they don't want to learn fights or even their own rotation, they do not want effort. So, what is the solution? Blizzard would have to patch every two month at minimum to keep delivering content that the casuals can run through in a day before they can complain again that there is no content.
Casual content would have to be delivered at a much higher pace then non-casual stuff, because it is consumed much faster. I am sure you know that it is simply not realistic to expect that.
I didn't ask them to add one iota more content for me than there already is. I just want it to be structured in a fun and rewarding way, and it isn't.
This is just a weird ramble about how cool and sexy you are for not being casual. Good for you I guess? It's a little cringey to think this hard about how to play yourself up but... cool?I find the idea that "casuals" have by now victimized themselves so hard that they think it is okay to use words like "Discrimination" and "Racism" as legitimations for their complaints a lot more bizarre.
But let us not kid ourselves. The whole issue stems from jealousy. The "casuals" want the things that the non-casuals are getting, but they aren't getting them because of lacking social ability, skill, time, tolerance for frustrationand what not. So they write on these forums and demand everything to be changed so that the people who have the former abilities cannot have things they cannot have. If you want to make yourself believe that this isn't the case, feel free, but I am sure you know that even if you are the 1 in 1000000 exception, the other "casuals" are not.
I just can't imagine caring this much about other people having fun with the game. I'm glad that Blizzard has good systems for you to engage in. I don't know why it is so important for you that they don't for other people. It's just odd to me for that to be a priority or to build this creepy complex up about how jealous everyone is. It just strikes me as very juvenile.
Because I like how wow used to have a lot for me to do, and I'd like it to have that again? This is a lot less complicated than you are making it out to be.You illustrate my point. If FF is so much better for you, then play it, with my deepest blessings. Why does WoW need to adopt this? There is a game that does what you want, so why does this other one have to do it too? It's exactly what I mean with the casuals never going to be satisfied. All games have to cater to you or they get bombarded with threads like this.
Where is the problem with different people getting different games to play. Why do you need a casual WoW on top of FF?
People are asking for high level gear because their gear ladder runs out in about two hours in most patches. This is about lacking progression, not about needing some specific ilvl. The most reasonable solution is to have a fourth endgame pillar that gets people to high end gear, because that is what impacts high end players the least, but if you'd prefer a solution where they force you to grind up the ladder through a casual system before you can get to the content you like, I guess that's cool but such a demand seems very at odds with the rest of your little essay here.I am not inventing anything. People have been asking for high-level gear from inconsequential content for ages. Maybe you don't, but many of your fellow "casuals" do, which means one of two things: Either there is no shared mind-set among the "casuals" or you don't know "your people" very well.
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You used to have a pretty long road to go if you wanted to gear up via reputations, professions, queued dungeon gear, and queued BG gear. Those things took a lot of time and effort and max out for a casual player and provided a pretty substantive and broad set of activities that had rewards that took a long time to obtain. Now, all of those activities are cut off very, very quickly. You outgear the queued dungeons and BGs almost immediately after hitting max level. Reputations and professions don't really provide much of substance anymore.
You just seem really desperate to make this pretty mundane request into something it isn't, or to shoehorn this into some self-aggrandizing narrative about all the people who are jealous of you. And I'm trying to help you when I say that the latter doesn't make you look confident and strong. It makes you look kind of desperate and weird.
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
"After working as a writing intern for Universal Pictures, he decided to get a graduate degree for creative writing from New York University.[2] Following this, he worked for his father's recruiting business while performing creative writing on the side to try to get his stories published.[3] He was unsuccessful at getting any of his creative stories published for several years, receiving over 170 rejection notices in a single year. By 2000, he decided to drop creative writing, and spent his time playing video games, as well as toying around with the level editors from games like Duke Nukem 3D and Half-Life.[2][3]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Kaplan
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady
Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.
It's not conjecture. It's his story from interviews he did. These are facts. I'm sorry you deluded yourself into thinking Jeff Kaplan was some massive star in game design after getting his degree from Harvard and publishing ten books, but that's not the real world.
How about you just tell me who all these amazing talents from the top schools are?
"stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
-ynnady