How I Would Fix Drakthyr

[Teriz]

Did you see 2 million posts/likes/topics/polls asking for extra Void Elf hair colors? No, but Blizzard responded and added them. Did you see 2 million asking for extra Nightborne customizations? Blizzard added them. As well as all other Allied Race customizations added in Shadowlands AFTER they had mentioned in posts and interviews that there are no customizations planned for SL. Any of those "vocal minorities" had far lesser noise about them than what we see for the limp Dracthyr models.

Did you see 2 million for removing conduit energy? Covenant swapping? Did you see it for any other feedback based change?

No, because that's not how statistics work.

Except none of the things you mentioned required advocacy. Blizzard was going to add more customization options for those races because they planned it that way. Shadowlands' key feature was giving existing races more customization options. That stuff didn't come about because people demanded it.

In comparison, Blizzard designed the Dracthyr to be slender creatures due to their size and wingspan. Bulking them up to roiders, decking them out in full armor, and allowing Dracthyr to be more classes goes against their fundamental design for the DE.

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Yeah, and a lot dont look like that. Like mine. And still, the overall sentiment should not be ignored.

IMHO, they don't look like dragons, they look like lizards.

They should have a beefier option.

The problem is that there's too many posts like the one I pointed out, so Blizzard could look at the entire situation as being a transphobic response to a design by a transgender artist. Them changing the general design of the Dracthyr would then be misconstrued as them not trusting their transgender artists and creators, which would generate an even greater backlash than what they've experienced over the last few years.

Given Blizzard's recent PR issues, conceding to a "transphobic mob" is probably not something they want to do.

[Calfredd]

The problem is that there's too many posts like the one I pointed out, so Blizzard could look at the entire group as being a transphobic response to a design by a transphobic artist. Given Blizzard's recent PR issues, conceding to a transphobic mob is probably not something they want to do.

Ignoring the first half of your post where you act like you usually do when tinkers are the discussion topic (ignoring others' posts, using extremely vague information or info that doesn't actually help you and use that as evidence, make up arguments and then arguing that, etc.), 3 people that mention trans, furry, or soy, is not "too many posts"; they are most definitely the minority.

[Sluvs]

Except none of the things you mentioned required advocacy. Blizzard was going to add more customization options for those races because they planned it that way. Shadowlands' key feature was giving existing races more customization options. That stuff didn't come about because people demanded it.

In comparison, Blizzard designed the Dracthyr to be slender creatures due to their size and wingspan. Bulking them up to roiders, decking them out in full armor, and allowing Dracthyr to be more classes goes against their fundamental design for the DE.

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The problem is that there's too many posts like the one I pointed out, so Blizzard could look at the entire situation as being a transphobic response to a design by a transphobic artist. Them changing the general design of the Dracthyr would then be misconstrued as them not trusting their transgender artists and creators, which would generate an even greater backlash than what they've experienced.

Given Blizzard's recent PR issues, conceding to a transphobic mob is probably not something they want to do.

I'm sorry, but I really dont see this framing of transphobic mob that you are saying. Like at all. I can see one or other poster being problematic and I think that they should be ignored. But you are treating like everyone in that crowd is transphobic. Which is NOT the case at all. I think you are framing this in a very unfair way because I don't see that much being based on the artist, since several other came forward with suggestion as well. If it was being championed by a single person, sure, you would have a point, but that is not the case. I honestly feel like you are stretching to have some sort of argument here.

And they don't need to redesign. They should just offer beefier options alongside these ones. I think that is a fair thing to do.

[Teriz]

Ignoring the first half of your post where you act like you usually do when tinkers are the discussion topic (ignoring others' posts, using extremely vague information or info that doesn't actually help you and use that as evidence, make up arguments and then arguing that, etc.), 3 people that mention trans, furry, or soy, is not "too many posts"; they are most definitely the minority.

It's far more than just 3 people. Further that sentiment is rather rampant elsewhere too.

I would also point out that calling the design "lazy" is also a very quick way to have Blizzard dismiss the criticism entirely.

[Ghanir]

Is it really so blasphemous to request a more in-depth muscle-slider for the new race? Let slender-lovers have slender-men and beefcake-gobblers have their mountain of muscles.

Or just introduce 2 different types of Dracthyr so that each side of the spectrum get what they want.

[Teriz]

I'm sorry, but I really dont see this framing of transphobic mob that you are saying. Like at all. I can see one or other poster being problematic and I think that they should be ignored. But you are treating like everyone in that crowd is transphobic. Which is NOT the case at all. I think you are framing this in a very unfair way because I don't see that much being based on the artist, since several other came forward with suggestion as well. If it was being championed by a single person, sure, you would have a point, but that is not the case. I honestly feel like you are stretching to have some sort of argument here.

And they don't need to redesign. They should just offer beefier options alongside these ones. I think that is a fair thing to do.

You think it's just one poster?

Examples (names redacted);

The more i look at these models the stronger the feminine soyboy energy and impression becomes.

I just find this blatant furry in a dragonsuit design repulsive.
People can be into whatever they want, but I don't want this shit in my game.
And why even have a human form? Get rid of that shit.

One of the senior designers is a transgender furry... so what can you expect.

I’m 100% with you. My buddy said it best, the drakrhyr look like they were designed by a furry.

Dracthyr looks more like they were created by a furry artists with tons of flags and emojis on their twitter bio.

Not his fault all trans people are furries

Five different posters in this thread alone. I'm sure I'd find more if I bothered to look. And none of the posters above are the ones I used in my other examples.

[Trumpcat]

Except none of the things you mentioned required advocacy. Blizzard was going to add more customization options for those races because they planned it that way. Shadowlands' key feature was giving existing races more customization options. That stuff didn't come about because people demanded it.

...

That's untrue, those customizations came, like I said, after official statements that there are no more customizations planned and after Blizzard responded to feedback threads and pointed that they will do it in response to feedback.

[Royru]

Do it and I'll be proven right once and for all. Anyone with two working eyes can see they are two different bodies even if the changes are slight.

They are proving that players are unhappy with base Blizzard model.

Okay in order to show you (well anyone who is actually still is being honest with themselves) that they are in completely differently breathing cycles lets first see what we can tell from a dragon who 100% is in a different cycle.



In this picture:

1: You clearly see the inhale his chin is up, during the exhale (bottom picture) his chin is down

2: You clearly see his wings spread further out during inhale so you see less of the background than in the bottom. You can't see the lanturn

3: Shoulders look smaller because of this because during exhale his body is obviously contracted.

Now that we established this lets go to your picture



1: White dragons chin is clearly down, you can even see his chin line overlap his neck. Green dragon is straight up. This alone proves they are in two different cycles

2's: The arrows labeled as two you can clearly see the you can see more background because his wings are contracted. In the white image specifically you can see both eyes of the lion poster behind. In the green the left eye is clearly 100% covered.

Purple arrows: Compared the arrows on the dips of the dragons wings. The white once clearly are wayyy closer to his body. The middle ligament is directly behind the hand on the white dragon while on the green dragon the middle ligament is way further away.

This is all to show you that you are clearly full of it. Anyone who actually watches the video and has even a hint of something they call a brain can tell that the white one is in a complete exhale while the green one is puffed up in an inhale making him appear to be bigger.

[Sluvs]

You think it's just one poster?

Examples (names redacted);










Five different posters in this thread alone. I'm sure I'd find more if I bothered to look. And none of the posters above are the ones I used in my other examples.

I have not said that it is only one person. The way I said thing was clearly meant to say that they are not the majority as you seem to imply.

Again, the ones you quoted are problematic and I literally spoke out against one of them.

Still. Plenty of people are unsatisfied with the model and are not transphobic. Ignoring that feedback is not fair.

[Teriz]

That's untrue, those customizations came, like I said, after official statements that there are no more customizations planned and after Blizzard responded to feedback threads and pointed that they will do it in response to feedback.

Okay, if you think this is one of those cases where demand will get Blizzard to completely alter their stated design goals, have at it.

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I have not said that it is only one person. The way I said thing was clearly meant to say that they are not the majority as you seem to imply.

Again, the ones you quoted are problematic and I literally spoke out against one of them.

Still. Plenty of people are unsatisfied with the model and are not transphobic. Ignoring that feedback is not fair.

It doesn't require the majority for it to get tainted in that direction. Frankly there's already too much of it, and that was from only this thread, much less other threads on just this forum, and other threads on other forums that don't have the level of moderation that this one does. Some of the Youtube comments were absolutely horrendous for example. I agree with you that it's not fair to the posters who aren't responding in that way, but that's the way it would be portrayed in the media and elsewhere.

Also like I said, calling the design "lazy" is another way for Blizzard to completely dismiss the feedback.

[Trumpcat]

Okay, if you think this is one of those cases where demand will get Blizzard to completely alter their stated design goals, have at it.
...

I never said such a thing. I actually said the opposite earlier in this thread. My reply to you was arguing your statement about there not being enough players vocal for a change in Dracthyr. The only hope for those who dislike the presented models is the "slightly bulkier" version mentioned in an interview.

[Sluvs]

Okay, if you think this is one of those cases where demand will get Blizzard to completely alter their stated design goals, have at it.

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It doesn't require the majority for it to get tainted in that direction. Frankly there's already too much of it, and that was from only this thread, much less other threads on just this forum, and other threads on other forums that don't have the level of moderation that this one does. Some of the Youtube comments were absolutely horrendous for example. I agree with you that it's not fair to the posters who aren't responding in that way, but that's the way it would be portrayed in the media and elsewhere.

Also like I said, calling the design "lazy" is another way for Blizzard to completely dismiss the feedback.

Still, you are dismissing feedback based on nothing but optics. Optics that are very arguable, by the way.

I think you are trying to spin an unfair narrative and trying very hard to dismiss valid feedback, even if it is a little bit mean (E.G.: Being lazy).

I feel like you should stop making excusing for the developers and actually provide feedback they can use.

[Royru]

Still, you are dismissing feedback based on nothing but optics. Optics that are very arguable, by the way.

I think you are trying to spin an unfair narrative and trying very hard to dismiss valid feedback, even if it is a little bit mean (E.G.: Being lazy).

I feel like you should stop making excusing for the developers and actually provide feedback they can use.

Recoloring mounts instead of making new ones is lazy. Making repetitive, identical daily quests instead of making different ones is lazy.

Them making a stylistic choice isn’t lazy, even if you dislike it. When you say things like this, it’s very easy for people to ignore your argument. It’s not that what you’re saying is mean, it’s that it doesn’t make sense.

[GMZohar1]

Nothing to fix, they look pretty amazing. People just like to complain about things is all.

[Sluvs]

Recoloring mounts instead of making new ones is lazy. Making repetitive, identical daily quests instead of making different ones is lazy.

Them making a stylistic choice isn’t lazy, even if you dislike it. When you say things like this, it’s very easy for people to ignore your argument. It’s not that what you’re saying is mean, it’s that it doesn’t make sense.

I have never said they were lazy.

[Teriz]

Still, you are dismissing feedback based on nothing but optics. Optics that are very arguable, by the way.

I think you are trying to spin an unfair narrative and trying very hard to dismiss valid feedback, even if it is a little bit mean (E.G.: Being lazy).

I feel like you should stop making excusing for the developers and actually provide feedback they can use.

And you're trying to dismiss trans/homophobic slurs. Calling it "optics" is hilarious. I posted multiple examples of clear slurs coming from this very thread from multiple posters. How is that "optics"?

The point is that its far more rampant on other forums and outlets, and no doubt Blizzard is well aware of it. As I stated before, if you're a developer and you see that sort of stuff directed at one of your artists, it's quite easy to dismiss the entire glut of it as derisive and transphobic and ignore it completely. ESPECIALLY if you're trying to get out from under a history of sexual misconduct from your higher ups.

And once again, stuff like this;

Hell no. The dragon looks like something a deviantart furry would come up with, and the visage looks like the sparkledog's reverse fursona.

Isn't feedback they can use.

[Sluvs]

And you're trying to dismiss trans/homophobic slurs. Calling it "optics" is hilarious. I posted multiple examples of clear slurs coming from this very thread from multiple posters. How is that "optics"?

The point is that its far more rampant on other forums and outlets, and no doubt Blizzard is well aware of it. As I stated before, if you're a developer and you see that sort of stuff directed at one of your artists, it's quite easy to dismiss the entire glut of it as derisive and transphobic and ignore it completely. ESPECIALLY if you're trying to get out from under a history of sexual misconduct from your higher ups.

And once again, stuff like this;



Isn't feedback they can use.

Hard stop right there. I am NOT trying to dismis trans and homophobic slurs as have I stood against them in this very thread. I Pretty clearly said that they should be dismissed and not taken seriously. The narrative that you are trying to spin is that the transphobes have tainted all feedback regarding their model and my point was that i do not think that this actually happening. I think there are transphobes but my very point is that you should NOT count them and be able to parse the good feedback from the bad. What you are saying its that it is too late for that.

There was plenty of feedback that was not phrased like this and you know it. If you are going to say that I am dimissing the transphobia here as a non issue, which i am very much not doing, it is better to stop this discussion right here because I am honestly not in the mood to be offended or to get into a heated argument.

[Royru]

I have never said they were lazy.

You’re most certainly defending it

[Sluvs]

You’re most certainly defending it

What I am saying, and have been saying for the past couple of pages, is that there is plenty of feedback that is constructive and better worded than some other ones in here. And dismissing all feedback because some are destructive (EG: the lazy thing) is not a fair thing to do.

[Teriz]

If you are going to say that I am dimissing the transphobia here as a non issue, which i am very much not doing, it is better to stop this discussion right here because I am honestly not in the mood to be offended or to get into a heated argument.

That's fine with me.