Poll: What do you think?

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  1. #981
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Don't drag Argonians into this mess
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  2. #982
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    I like Argonians. I like the Drac'thyr. But you're just being disingenuous if you're claiming not to see the similarities. And more than just general "reptilian humanoid." They have much of the same silhouette, sans wings, especially if you go back to the less-stocky iterations of Argonians in years past.
    Your meme said "its the same picture". Having similarities is not being "the same".

  3. #983
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Your meme said "its the same picture". Having similarities is not being "the same".
    It's a joke. You understood the point that was made. Don't be deliberately literalist for the sake of argument.

  4. #984
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    It's a joke. You understood the point that was made. Don't be deliberately literalist for the sake of argument.
    Yes, your point that Dracthyr and Arogonians look "the same" when they clearly don't.

  5. #985
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    It's a joke. You understood the point that was made. Don't be deliberately literalist for the sake of argument.
    Understanding the point and Teriz rarely ever meet.


    And yes, while they don't 100% match, this new race looks closer to Argonians than they do to WoW dragons.

  6. #986
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes, your point that Dracthyr and Arogonians look "the same" when they clearly don't.
    Fine. They possess notable similarities in presentation, posture and overall aesthetic. But I shouldn't have to be so specific - if I said two chairs look "the same," you know full well what I mean. You'd have to be pretty pedantic to quibble over the pattern in the woodgrain.

  7. #987
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yes, your point that Dracthyr and Arogonians look "the same" when they clearly don't.
    This is what peak “I have no argument” looks like.

  8. #988
    Hrothgar in FFXIV wear armor but can't display most helmet models due to their unique character models. If there are limitations stopping them from letting Dracthyr from using armor maybe they could do something similar to the Hrothgar.

  9. #989
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    This is what peak “I have no argument” looks like.
    I mean, they don't look the same though.

    Even just structure wise, Arogonians look rough and lumpy. They look almost more like a melted toy.

    Dracthyr look like they came out of the cover of a children's book. Like the Wings of Fire graphic novel covers.

  10. #990
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I mean, they don't look the same though.

    Even just structure wise, Arogonians look rough and lumpy. They look almost more like a melted toy.

    Dracthyr look like they came out of the cover of a children's book. Like the Wings of Fire graphic novel covers.
    I think that's just stylistic deviation due to the differing overall art styles of these two particular games. If you popped a Drac'thyr into Skyrim, it would look incredibly similar to a winged Argonian. And if you popped an Argonian into WoW? Wingless Drac'thyr. I will totally concur that these two games have differing art styles - no argument to be had there. But looking at the presentation, the personality, the postures of these two races... it's two expressions of the same theme. Identical? Of course not. But they're notably similar.

  11. #991
    I mean... I don't see it, Argonians from Elder scrolls are ugly and I wouldnt play them in any case.. Dracthyr look awesome and I cannot wait to create one... you people are stretching and looking for something thats not there.

  12. #992
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    I mean... I don't see it, Argonians from Elder scrolls are ugly and I wouldnt play them in any case.. Dracthyr look awesome and I cannot wait to create one... you people are stretching and looking for something thats not there.
    Personally, I see more of a resemblance to the Morrowind Argonians, but that's neither here nor there. They're both reptilian humanoids with notable lizard-inspired features and a very rigid upright posture. But I think we're getting away from the original point. It's not able to what degree Argonians and Drac'thyr are similar - it's that the degree of difference between an actual WoW dragon and a Drac'thyr is much greater than the degree of difference between an Argonian and a Drac'thyr.

    And that's a fair point to make, if you were interested in playing an actual dragon instead of playing an overt compromise.

  13. #993
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    Fine. They possess notable similarities in presentation, posture and overall aesthetic. But I shouldn't have to be so specific - if I said two chairs look "the same," you know full well what I mean. You'd have to be pretty pedantic to quibble over the pattern in the woodgrain.
    If you said that two chairs look the SAME then I would expect to see twin chairs. If you say that two chairs look SIMILAR to each other, I would expect some notable differences, yet similar overall structure.

    It's not being pedantic, it's the simple FACT that something looking similar and something looking the same are NOT the same thing.

  14. #994
    Dreadlord Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    If you said that two chairs look the SAME then I would expect to see twin chairs. If you say that two chairs look SIMILAR to each other, I would expect some notable differences, yet similar overall structure.

    It's not being pedantic, it's the simple FACT that something looking similar and something looking the same are NOT the same thing.
    Being "excessively concerned with minor details" in the context of a joking statement? That is the very definition of pedantic.

  15. #995
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    I mean, they don't look the same though.

    Even just structure wise, Arogonians look rough and lumpy. They look almost more like a melted toy.

    Dracthyr look like they came out of the cover of a children's book. Like the Wings of Fire graphic novel covers.
    Exactly. I understand that some posters dislike the Dracthyr, but some of the criticisms against them are downright silly and dishonest.

  16. #996
    The absolutely hilarious point to be made, is that the two people arguing that they cannot see it, are the same people with pictures of Dragon Aspects as their profile pictures. It shows that they are blatantly aware of what people (including them) WANTED to play.

    Pretending they can't see how what we're getting doesn't come close to what was wanted is amberheard levels of dishonesty.


    And to make it very clear, Dracthyr are MORE SIMILAR to Argonians than they are SIMILAR to WoW Dragons. They look CLOSER to lizard men from an Elder Scrolls game than they look like the DRAGONS from World of Warcraft.


    But please proceed to cover your eyes and say "No this is fine, I'm ok with this."

  17. #997
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    The absolutely hilarious point to be made, is that the two people arguing that they cannot see it, are the same people with pictures of Dragon Aspects as their profile pictures. It shows that they are blatantly aware of what people (including them) WANTED to play.

    Pretending they can't see how what we're getting doesn't come close to what was wanted is amberheard levels of dishonesty.


    And to make it very clear, Dracthyr are MORE SIMILAR to Argonians than they are SIMILAR to WoW Dragons. They look CLOSER to lizard men from an Elder Scrolls game than they look like the DRAGONS from World of Warcraft.


    But please proceed to cover your eyes and say "No this is fine, I'm ok with this."
    You do understand that there was no way Blizzard was going to allow us to play as a full sized dragon right? I’m fine with the Dracthyr because I understand what Blizzards design goals and limitations were. Dracthyr is an adequate compromise, because in the end you’re still playing as a dragon empowered by the dragonflights, you get to utilize draconic abilities, and you get a visage form just like Wrathion, Alexstraza, Nozdormu, and co.

    Having a dragon being bipedal instead of on all fours isn’t a deal breaker for me. Sorry it is for you.
    Last edited by Teriz; 2022-06-06 at 05:55 PM.

  18. #998
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    You do understand that there was no way Blizzard was going to allow us to play as a full sized dragon right?
    Bear Form + Sandstone Drake

    You don't need to be a giant dragon, Chromie isn't. In game her dragon form is about as big as the Sandstone Drake. That + Bear form showing they will do shapeshifts on all fours means they totally COULD do a dragon form right, they just chose not to.

    Can't /= won't


    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Having a dragon being bipedal instead of on all fours isn’t a deal breaker for me. Sorry it is for you.
    That isn't the deal breaker for me, I would just argue alot more about it if they had a tank spec, which IS the deal breaker for me. Limited specs feel like lack of effort.

  19. #999
    Banned Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    Bear Form + Sandstone Drake

    You don't need to be a giant dragon, Chromie isn't. In game her dragon form is about as big as the Sandstone Drake. That + Bear form showing they will do shapeshifts on all fours means they totally COULD do a dragon form right, they just chose not to.

    Can't /= won't
    I’ve been in revolving arguments on this very forum where people said Sand Drake was too big, and Guardian wasn’t big enough. Clearly Blizzard agreed with those arguments.


    That isn't the deal breaker for me, I would just argue alot more about it if they had a tank spec, which IS the deal breaker for me. Limited specs feel like lack of effort.
    And you are welcome to that opinion. IMO I feel that the game has enough tanks, so this class not getting a tank (given its mobility options) makes sense.

  20. #1000
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    I’ve been in revolving arguments on this very forum where people said Sand Drake was too big, and Guardian wasn’t big enough. Clearly Blizzard agreed with those arguments.




    And you are welcome to that opinion. IMO I feel that the game has enough tanks, so this class not getting a tank (given its mobility options) makes sense.
    Them choosing to do a lazy reskin of the Worgen model (or incubus, I forget which, but it isn't new) doesn't mean that it had anything to do with size constraint, especially since this new race looks to be rather tall. Height is normally more of a problem that horizontal size in this game.

    I'd say they chose to do what they did because it was lazy and unimaginative rather than because they actually had trouble making a better model work. But since we don't have any proof either way /shrug


    The game has enough of EVERYTHING. That feels like the argument of "we can't have more specs because it would be too hard to balance", which always leaves reasonable people scratching their heads going "Blizzard tries to balance? Tell that to BM hunters".


    Dracthyr should have been given the option of a standing or all fours model (ala hunched Orcs or straight backed), a tank spec, a true flight form that isn't just gliding.

    All other classes should have been given another spec (sans Druids, just make ours better)

    All talent trees should be way more customizable so you can craft a spec that really feels different from "just another Bear".

    Blizzard is falling apart and their games are losing people left and right. They should have gone big, and instead, they went really, really small.

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