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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Redroniksre View Post
    As someone who really only wants to see the content a few times, No.
    Why see the content when it's basically brain afk mode anyway? I want to see the content, too, but LFR is not even a game anymore. It's autopilot mode. You might even watch the content on youtube, it's a better experience.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    They outright admitted it as part of not having dungeonfinder in Wrath Classic, but they're still gonna leave it in the current game. Why? If it destroys the social fabric of the game it does so in all versions of the game. So what kind of a game do you want to have? An antisocial one?

    They are aware of how bad dungeonfinder is and still refuse to remove it.
    i think you just read the wrong results out of this, just because of a false or incomplete assumption. it just says „retail wow has another community than classic wow“.

    and you don’t have their data.

    imagine the following:

    - lets say you are Blizzard.
    - lets say you have data and know the type of gamers you have in your game exactly.
    - lets say you realized most ppl that like social game design are in game version A.
    - lets say you realized most ppl that not like social game design are in game version B.

    now imagine you wanna say that next iteration of game version A should also focus on social aspects. its exactly what Blizz did. but now you realized, that this doesn’t automatically mean, what you interpreted in it. because if you have data and know about the above game version B fact, you will say exactly what they said. but you just interpreted things into it, regarding game version B.

    in short: saying that Wrath should have no groupfinder, has zero effect or relation to retail. it doesn’t automatically mean „we think groupfinder is bad“ and therefore it should not be in retail too. it does mean „we think groupfinder is bad, for our classic games community“. which says NOTHING about retail in any way.

    if you get what i mean.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2022-04-22 at 01:02 AM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    They outright admitted it as part of not having dungeonfinder in Wrath Classic, but they're still gonna leave it in the current game. Why? If it destroys the social fabric of the game it does so in all versions of the game. So what kind of a game do you want to have? An antisocial one?

    They are aware of how bad dungeonfinder is and still refuse to remove it.
    Just more proof these developers need to find a new career.

  4. #24
    Right. p2w GDKPs, mage boosting, reserving everything under the sun, etc is fine, but LFD BAD.

    not to mention Wrath 5 mans are the fucking easiest content they ever created. Being able to teleport to them on your 100% same faction servers is not going to hurt anything.
    Last edited by varren; 2022-04-22 at 01:29 AM.

  5. #25
    Herald of the Titans Marxman's Avatar
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    Quite frankly anyone who believes LFD "destroys the social fabric of the game" probably has no idea what they're talking about, Blizzard included. There are other games with MUCH better communities than WoW has ever had that include random dungeon finder, such as FFXIV. The problem is and always has been Blizzards inability to police the community for bad actors and asshats.

    Removing LFD is a huge mistake in Wrath, and would be an even bigger mistake in retail.

    I am personally choosing not to play WotLK Classic because of this change. I'm sure there are many others who feel the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    Right. p2w GDKPs, mage boosting, reserving everything under the sun, etc is fine, but LFD BAD..
    Also this. It's absolutely hysterical that anyone talks about "COMMUNITY" in a game like Classic, with all of these problems.

  6. #26
    It's one of the few times where the devs made the right choice. Removing LFD pretty much kills any reason to go into the open world once you're done leveling and finished rep grinds (which are fairly easy in Wotlk). One of the coolest parts about classic for me is when you're going to a dungeon and you know that there's probably going to be some pvp along the way. LFD pretty much killed the world in World of warcraft.

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Marxman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    One of the coolest parts about classic for me is when you're going to a dungeon and you know that there's probably going to be some pvp along the way.
    Ironically for more than half of the population of Classic, world PvP simply does not exist. They've all migrated to one-faction mega servers. That trend will only accelerate now that LFD is being removed, thus making large server population even more important.

    https://ironforge.pro/population/tbc/?locale=US-EU

    Note that 6 of the top 10 populated servers in the world are literally ALL 1 faction. That is only going to get worse.

  8. #28
    I don't know if people are actually naive or try to be manipulative when they put false words into devs' mouths. I don't even need the devs' word to know it is false; I don't usually trust them anyway; but in this case what they said was correct and clear.

    They clearly said it is NOT about ALL players; it's ONLY about classic players; they clearly and blatantly and explicitly (with subtitles on the youtube video) said that this has nothing to do with all players of WoW but it's only about classic players.
    "If you have questions or suggestions about moderation, you go to a global (blue) moderator with them and discuss the matter in PMs. These kinds of discussions NEVER work out in public." xskarma, global moderator off mmo-champion, defender of democracy

  9. #29
    LFD as an easy group finding tool in and of itself has never been the problem.

    The deterioration of the community aspect of WoW was due to the fact that eventually you could use LFD to group with random people from a pool of players that was too large. At that point, you started to group with people that you would most likely never see again. That's the underlying problem and not the tool itself. I was in a great guild for many years. I met those people in LFD during WotLK. Back then, you would see the same people frequently through LFD and it was great.

  10. #30
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    They outright admitted it as part of not having dungeonfinder in Wrath Classic, but they're still gonna leave it in the current game. Why? If it destroys the social fabric of the game it does so in all versions of the game. So what kind of a game do you want to have? An antisocial one?

    They are aware of how bad dungeonfinder is and still refuse to remove it.
    Yeah, because social communication and behavior are fed by summoning rage, lost people, running back and forth to a city to yell for people, traveling back to the dungeon just to realize someone left, and people leaving mid-way in a dungeon, etc, etc. When Dungeon Finder got added, I was so damn happy. I'm very social in the game, even with a dungeon finder.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  11. #31
    LFD didnt do that. the community was fine until you started seeing randoms from other servers in your zones and cities. if LFD is so bad why are cross server BG queues in classic?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    Right. p2w GDKPs, mage boosting, reserving everything under the sun, etc is fine, but LFD BAD.
    Mage boosting has been heavily criticized by the community and will highly likely get axed with Wotlk entirely, as the devs have already said on Twitter that it's probably going to get the SoM treatment, where it was effectively killed.

    And as for reserving items, go ahead, find a tank or healer for normal / heroic dungeons, reserving is basically the community driven version of the satchel.
    Problem is, heroic dungeons in TBC are generally not worth the effort.

    Some of them can still be a huge pain (because mobs still hit hard).
    Are a pain without a proper setup (=Non Prot Pally tank).
    And most of all, generally drop terrible loot.


    As someone who actually tanked some heroics on my Warrior Alt, i can absolutely understand why some people just levelcap their character, moved their fully green geared alt into a Karazhan Alt raid and just collected the gear there and skipped heroics almost entirely.
    Because especially tanks and healers do not have a fun time in heroics unless they overgear those dungeons, which obviously defeats the purpose of doing those dungeons in the first place.
    So unless you need the Rep or are in need for badges (and heroics also don't exactly drop a lot of badges), you can see why finding a tank for heroics is a huge pain.

    And if you join a group that has neither tank nor healer and stuff gets reserved...well that's on you and by just creating a group yourself without reserving anything yourself, your group will fill much quicker for obvious reasons.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2022-04-22 at 09:01 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    They outright admitted it as part of not having dungeonfinder in Wrath Classic, but they're still gonna leave it in the current game. Why? If it destroys the social fabric of the game it does so in all versions of the game. So what kind of a game do you want to have? An antisocial one?

    They are aware of how bad dungeonfinder is and still refuse to remove it.
    Yeah, I was asking myself the same question. They realize how bad it is and still keep it. In a world where we a much better tool in place already.

  14. #34
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    They outright admitted it as part of not having dungeonfinder in Wrath Classic, but they're still gonna leave it in the current game. Why? If it destroys the social fabric of the game it does so in all versions of the game. So what kind of a game do you want to have? An antisocial one?

    They are aware of how bad dungeonfinder is and still refuse to remove it.
    Because nobody uses the LFD tool in retail because it gives awful rewards and heroics are worthless. And besides retail has way WAY more destroying the game's social fabric (Everything cross-realm).

    Now for me, this will only compound on Blizzard killing Classic's social aspect. For me it was damaged when they let people transfer off of my low pop RP realm for free. They basically killed the server over night. The AH right now only has 6 items available for sale. I wound up moving with my guild but we lost so many members along the way it died too. So now I'm stuck on this server with no guild, no friends and no gear since I wound up quitting shortly after the guild died and the game has gone through multiple phases since. It'd be nice to use LFD to gear up so I can actually join non-random groups and socialise again but I guess 'No changes' went out the window a long time ago. Wrath is not the social game classic is. TBC should have been social but they destroyed that when they let servers get to the stage they got to.
    Last edited by Aeula; 2022-04-22 at 11:38 AM.

  15. #35
    How can we trust them they wanna "save" the socialization of this game when they don't communicate with the player. The game don't have GM s now, sometimes they send out some banhammer and thats it. They talk with themselves and ask some generic questions trough aseptic questionnaire.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by cone of cold View Post
    They outright admitted it as part of not having dungeonfinder in Wrath Classic, but they're still gonna leave it in the current game. Why? If it destroys the social fabric of the game it does so in all versions of the game. So what kind of a game do you want to have? An antisocial one?

    They are aware of how bad dungeonfinder is and still refuse to remove it.
    in Final Fantasy 14 you can queue for almost anything and have a strong non toxic comunity
    the "Social fabric of the game" wasn't destroyed by lFD but by the comunity itself
    Last edited by DargorDraconis; 2022-04-29 at 11:27 PM.

  17. #37
    personally i disagree wiht the devs on this 1 all that will happen w/o lfd is instead of just saying hi/w/e they will also say summon/123 summon plz and when they actually have to move to a instance they will just leave grp, ppl dont want to move to a dungeon they just want to be MOVED there 1 way or another they dont wana do it themselves

  18. #38
    Brewmaster Skylarking's Avatar
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    Are these the same devs that thought conduit energy was a good idea? I would take what they say with a mountain of salt they clearly don't know what they are talking about.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Clash the DK View Post
    LFD as an easy group finding tool in and of itself has never been the problem.

    The deterioration of the community aspect of WoW was due to the fact that eventually you could use LFD to group with random people from a pool of players that was too large. At that point, you started to group with people that you would most likely never see again. That's the underlying problem and not the tool itself. I was in a great guild for many years. I met those people in LFD during WotLK. Back then, you would see the same people frequently through LFD and it was great.
    This right here. LFD was fine when it was limited to a relatively small pool of players that you would see often enough to knowmwho the bad apples were. It only turned “bad” when it basically allowed total anonymity which allowed players to be shitlords with no consequences.

  20. #40
    The problem isn't the tool, as always. It's the community and company behind it that influences what the social fabric of a game holds. There is a reason why certain games (Under any company) provide wildly different social aspects. WoW's community is, and has been for a long time, extremely blunt and quite often being dicks. No game is pure mind you, even FFXIV lauded for its amazing community (Which it USUALLY does have) isn't all sunshine and rainbows depending on the content you do, and server you end up on (Like streamer servers).

    WoW is too far gone to be bettered and changed. Blizzard would have to strongarm it and mass ban people for being toxic in many forms to make everyone afraid to even speak in chat to even begin stopping it. Which, they won't - and any boo-boo band-aid fix on the steaming pile of shit they come up with won't work. It's still a piece of shit. This is like if VALVE tried to make DotA 2 players not toxic. Or CS:GO. These communities breed that unsportsmanship mentality and the companies encourage it, but just not in tournament settings. For some reason.

    League is a good case of 'too little too late' - they have improved their detection for dickbag behavior and auto-mute or temp-ban people off obvious things. But that only does so much when the community itself outside of the game are still the same as they ever were. And that's really difficult to change WITHOUT killing off your player base.

    That said.

    You can still have a great guild and social circle within many games anyways, even if the notorious nature of it being negative is still there. You make it what you want it to be, there is a very large choice around you to interact with. Even if things fall apart there is still way more to go find and chat / play with.

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