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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I mean, Nefarian spent years creating chromatic dragons that wielded 5 dragon powers at once, and even when Deathwing personally continued these experiments, they had problems reviving Chromatus. Chromatic dragons simply died, apparently due to an overabundance of power. But now it turns out that once upon a time Neltharion simply created an entire race of Drakonids who wielded all 5 powers of the Aspects without any restrictions or consequences? Amazing
    But they don't get to use all five schools at once.
    So they are more hybrids of two colors rather than chromatic.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I mean, Nefarian spent years creating chromatic dragons that wielded 5 dragon powers at once, and even when Deathwing personally continued these experiments, they had problems reviving Chromatus. Chromatic dragons simply died, apparently due to an overabundance of power. But now it turns out that once upon a time Neltharion simply created an entire race of Drakonids who wielded all 5 powers of the Aspects without any restrictions or consequences? Amazing
    Seems Drakthyrs are using draconic power in power levels way under normal dragons. Nefarian wanted chromatic dragons (not drakonids) which use the powers way stronger than normal dragons.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    nefarian: Build perfect warriors/soldiers wielding the power of the 5 dragonflights 10.000 years ago, that can turn into blood elves and humans, who didn't even exist in those time.
    Also Nefarian: Ditch then in the dragon isles forever and start creating "inferior" drakonids and dragonspawn, failing in creating anything that wields the power of those 5 dragonflights

    SUUUUURE, he didn't even though how he could use those "perfect weapons" in his quest, he just abandon then.

    I rly can't believe they come up with something so stupid to add a race and a class that was already in ingame lore for years, its trully amazing their reverse midas touch ruining everything the community wants
    Yeah, I had a similar thought about humans/elves not existing. My guess is that the returning dragons show them those forms and you gain that ability when you pick faction?

  4. #44
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    There's a bigger plot hole here. If these Dracthyr were created before the Sundering, before Neltharion went mad with Old God corruption, why are they choosing to turn into humans and blood elves? Shouldn't they be turning into a race that existed back then, like night elves and trolls? Maybe Mogu and Pandaren? Seriously, it's a weird choice lore-wise.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    There's a bigger plot hole here. If these Dracthyr were created before the Sundering, before Neltharion went mad with Old God corruption, why are they choosing to turn into humans and blood elves? Shouldn't they be turning into a race that existed back then, like night elves and trolls? Maybe Mogu and Pandaren? Seriously, it's a weird choice lore-wise.
    Non-lore wise its obvious why. But for lore reasons its probably going to relate to who they meet on the Dragon Isles when they "wake up".

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    Anyone who expected anything but retcons born of willful ignorance from Danuser and team has clearly had his head in the sand for years.
    As I said in another post, the WoW community is full of double standards. Void Elves get added and get called an asspull cause they don't like it, but some basic dragon thing gets added and it suddenly makes sense even if it creates a rift in the lore's logic.

    Can't believe this abomination took over the slot of a new class only to get another 10 years of "we don't need a new class".

  7. #47
    I don't care about (or read) the story/lore/dialogs in any game, *but* I imagine it's somewhat difficult to keep track of things that were written 3 years ago, let alone 10+.

    I get most sane people presumably are talking about major points in the story, but still.

  8. #48
    he probably saw the dragon form model and was like what is this shit lmao and so he just started to research chromatic dragons

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    But they don't get to use all five schools at once.
    So they are more hybrids of two colors rather than chromatic.
    They literally said that Neltharion created them with the ability to use the powers of all 5 flights. Just because we've only been given a couple of abilities so far doesn't mean that every specialization can't use all 5

  10. #50
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I mean, Nefarian spent years creating chromatic dragons that wielded 5 dragon powers at once, and even when Deathwing personally continued these experiments, they had problems reviving Chromatus. Chromatic dragons simply died, apparently due to an overabundance of power. But now it turns out that once upon a time Neltharion simply created an entire race of Drakonids who wielded all 5 powers of the Aspects without any restrictions or consequences? Amazing
    I think you're getting things confused, here. I think the drakthyr and the chromatic dragonflight are completely separate, independent experiments.

    The drakthyr were created by Neltharion. And since Blizzard specifically used the Aspect of Earth's name from before his corruption and transformation into Deathwing, it implies that the Drakthyr were created before Nefarian even thought about experimenting in creating a chromatic dragonflight.

    And considering Evokers get a starting zone of their own (for being a hero class) I'm assuming that the drakthyr were created prior to the Dragon Isles being isolated from the rest of Azeroth, and went dormant along with the rest of those in the Isles, only waking up again when the Watchers reawakened the Isles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I think you're getting things confused, here. I think the drakthyr and the chromatic dragonflight are completely separate, independent experiments.

    The drakthyr were created by Neltharion. And since Blizzard specifically used the Aspect of Earth's name from before his corruption and transformation into Deathwing, it implies that the Drakthyr were created before Nefarian even thought about experimenting in creating a chromatic dragonflight.

    And considering Evokers get a starting zone of their own (for being a hero class) I'm assuming that the drakthyr were created prior to the Dragon Isles being isolated from the rest of Azeroth, and went dormant along with the rest of those in the Isles, only waking up again when the Watchers reawakened the Isles.
    God, you're probably already the 10th commenter that points me to the fact that Nefarian created them. I KNOW IT. The text you highlighted also indicates that Deathwing continued his experiments. I'm not pointing out that Nefarian couldn't create them, but that even when Deathwing personally intervened during the Cataclysm, he still had huge problems creating a successful dragon. Even the successful Chromatus was only brought to life by an incredibly large amount of arcane energy from the Nexus.

  12. #52
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    God, you're probably already the 10th commenter that points me to the fact that Nefarian created them. I KNOW IT. The text you highlighted also indicates that Deathwing continued his experiments. I'm not pointing out that Nefarian couldn't create them, but that even when Deathwing personally intervened during the Cataclysm, he still had huge problems creating a successful dragon. Even the successful Chromatus was only brought to life by an incredibly large amount of arcane energy from the Nexus.
    And it seems you still are getting this wrong. Nefarian did not create them. NELTHARION did.

    You know Neltharion? The black dragonflight aspect? A.k.a. Deathwing before he was corrupted?
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    God, you're probably already the 10th commenter that points me to the fact that Nefarian created them. I KNOW IT. The text you highlighted also indicates that Deathwing continued his experiments. I'm not pointing out that Nefarian couldn't create them, but that even when Deathwing personally intervened during the Cataclysm, he still had huge problems creating a successful dragon. Even the successful Chromatus was only brought to life by an incredibly large amount of arcane energy from the Nexus.
    Did you know it? It's kinda funny how you created threads both here and on Reddit just to be dunked on.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And it seems you still are getting this wrong. Nefarian did not create them. NELTHARION did.

    You know Neltharion? The black dragonflight aspect? A.k.a. Deathwing before he was corrupted?
    I'm pretty sure that darkoms is saying that Nefarian is the one that started the Chromatic dragon experiments, and then after Neltharion/Deathwing continued the experiments there were still major problems/struggles with it. So considering the problems that Deathwing had with it, darkoms finds it strange that he had already perfected something very similar to it 10,000 years prior to that.

    Not trying to step into the debate at this moment, but I hate seeing miscommunications run amok. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, darkoms.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexosaurus View Post
    I'm pretty sure that darkoms is saying that Nefarian is the one that started the Chromatic dragon experiments, and then after Neltharion/Deathwing continued the experiments there were still major problems/struggles with it. So considering the problems that Deathwing had with it, darkoms finds it strange that he had already perfected something very similar to it 10,000 years prior to that.

    Not trying to step into the debate at this moment, but I hate seeing miscommunications run amok. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, darkoms.
    As far as I know, Nefarian only began his experiments after the corruption of the black dragonflight, which means the drakthyr (again, created by Neltharion) pre-date Nefarian even beginning his experiments, and-- again, the way I see it-- the reason Nefarian couldn't be as successful as his father is that he both lacked the knowledge and the equipment, since it was all locked away in the Dragon Isles, and so Nefarian had to do with what he got, namely shoddy goblin machinery and alchemy instead of Titan facilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  16. #56
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexosaurus View Post
    I'm pretty sure that darkoms is saying that Nefarian is the one that started the Chromatic dragon experiments, and then after Neltharion/Deathwing continued the experiments there were still major problems/struggles with it. So considering the problems that Deathwing had with it, darkoms finds it strange that he had already perfected something very similar to it 10,000 years prior to that.
    Which hinges strongly on whether or not the dracthyr were "perfected," which isn't addressed in what we know and prior sources point to not being the case. If the dracthyr were the end-all and be-all, it's doubtful that Deathwing would've charged Nefarian with continuing his work, or picked up Nefarian's work after his death to continue creating Chromatus or the Twilight dragonflight.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    As far as I know, Nefarian only began his experiments after the corruption of the black dragonflight, which means the drakthyr (again, created by Neltharion) pre-date Nefarian even beginning his experiments, and-- again, the way I see it-- the reason Nefarian couldn't be as successful as his father is that he both lacked the knowledge and the equipment, since it was all locked away in the Dragon Isles, and so Nefarian had to do with what he got, namely shoddy goblin machinery and alchemy instead of Titan facilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Which hinges strongly on whether or not the dracthyr were "perfected," which isn't addressed in what we know and prior sources point to not being the case. If the dracthyr were the end-all and be-all, it's doubtful that Deathwing would've charged Nefarian with continuing his work, or picked up Nefarian's work after his death to continue creating Chromatus or the Twilight dragonflight.
    I tentatively agree that these are both possible explanations as to why the Dracthyr wouldn't cause an inconsistency with the Chromatic experiments. I also came up with idea that Neltharion's decent into madness and the loss of the Dracthyr as a template meant that he couldn't easily recreate his success with the Chromatic Dragons. Just a wild head-canon/theory, but I think it could also avoid the problem.

    My previous post's intention was just to try to help avoid more confusion surrounding whether the OP was talking about Neltharion/Deathwing or Nefarian creating the Dracthyr.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Rexosaurus View Post
    I'm pretty sure that darkoms is saying that Nefarian is the one that started the Chromatic dragon experiments, and then after Neltharion/Deathwing continued the experiments there were still major problems/struggles with it. So considering the problems that Deathwing had with it, darkoms finds it strange that he had already perfected something very similar to it 10,000 years prior to that.

    Not trying to step into the debate at this moment, but I hate seeing miscommunications run amok. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, darkoms.
    Oh, thank God, at least someone here can read correctly. Thank you for helping this person understand what is written in the post!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    Did you know it? It's kinda funny how you created threads both here and on Reddit just to be dunked on.
    Um, what? I created a topic both here and on Reddit, this does not mean that I did not know it. Although there also were a couple of people with dyslexia on reddit who cannot read the first post correctly and think that I am confusing Nefarian and Neltharion

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Which hinges strongly on whether or not the dracthyr were "perfected," which isn't addressed in what we know and prior sources point to not being the case. If the dracthyr were the end-all and be-all, it's doubtful that Deathwing would've charged Nefarian with continuing his work, or picked up Nefarian's work after his death to continue creating Chromatus or the Twilight dragonflight.
    It's not even about their perfection, the fact is that mixing the forces of all 5 flights has always been positioned as a huge problem due to force overload. And even though the Draktyrs are partially mortal and weaker than dragons, don't you think that's even stranger? I mean, if they have mortal blood, shouldn't they die even faster because they can't withstand that kind of power? However, Blizzard quietly tells us how cool they are and how their heal specialization combines the power of the Emerald Dream and time magic.
    Last edited by darkoms; 2022-04-20 at 06:17 PM.

  19. #59
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I mean, Nefarian spent years creating chromatic dragons that wielded 5 dragon powers at once, and even when Deathwing personally continued these experiments, they had problems reviving Chromatus. Chromatic dragons simply died, apparently due to an overabundance of power. But now it turns out that once upon a time Neltharion simply created an entire race of Drakonids who wielded all 5 powers of the Aspects without any restrictions or consequences? Amazing
    "I am deathwing, I left the dragon isles to go cause havoc, alright i am done, time to go back to my lab where ALL OF MY NOTES AND RESEARCH on making drakthyr are... oh... wait... where is the island?"


    Thats it, literally it.
    deathwing figured it out but then went insane and didnt have access to them anymore, so he gave up, nefarian tried to do it again.
    the exact same way us as humans have forgotten how to do countless things, like we still dont know what greek fire was made of, we can assume, but the knowledge of what it was exactly was lost, among countless other bits of the past.

    and 10,000 years is a LONG time.

  20. #60
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    It's not even about their perfection, the fact is that mixing the forces of all 5 flights has always been positioned as a huge problem due to force overload. And even though the Draktyrs are partially mortal and weaker than dragons, don't you think that's even stranger? I mean, if they have mortal blood, shouldn't they die even faster because they can't withstand that kind of power? However, Blizzard quietly tells us how cool they are and how their heal specialization combines the power of the Emerald Dream and time magic.
    Mixing the *full* forces of all 5 flights, yes. A power that, while having access to perhaps all 5 forms of power, the dracthyr obviously don't wield considering that they're more or less on par with mortal spellcasters. You're essentially mixing metaphors here as well - the developers are talking about "how cool" they are from a Watsonian standpoint, in that they're a new race and class we (as players) have never seen in WoW before, which is true. But in the Doylist or in-game context, they're not all that impressive or even super powerful - they're just another mortal race and class, with similarly scaled abilities.

    Druids wield the magic of the Emerald Dream as well, and Mages have access to some forms of chronomantic magic. So again, the dracthyr while unique aren't exceedingly powerful, nor do they come close to wielding the full might of dragons, much less the Aspects in the way Chromatus achieved.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

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