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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Talon8669 View Post
    I never said it would be fun...where did you even get that from. I just said I don't find running older dungeons fun. To be completely clear I don't find either situation to be fun but if forced into one I would prefer to just run (8) entirely new ones period like we have in the last few expansions.
    It's almost like running those 8 dungeons for two years straight will make you never want to run them again. If only there was a solution...
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Talon8669 View Post
    I never said it would be fun...where did you even get that from. I just said I don't find running older dungeons fun. To be completely clear I don't find either situation to be fun but if forced into one I would prefer to just run (8) entirely new ones period like we have in the last few expansions.
    You understand your problem is being burnt out from running the content so much, so instead of fixing the problem and dipping into the almost 20 years of content we have, you would rather continue on recreating then problem you’re trying to get away from.

    Are you slowly starting to understand why I called your opinion short sighted? Is ANY of this making sense to you

  3. #543
    Quote Originally Posted by Talon8669 View Post
    I never said it would be fun...where did you even get that from. I just said I don't find running older dungeons fun. To be completely clear I don't find either situation to be fun but if forced into one I would prefer to just run (8) entirely new ones period like we have in the last few expansions.
    Ngl, that sounds pretty irrational.

    The dungeons they are updating are from MoP and prior. Meaning no one has run them as current content in 10+ years at this point. I get not everyone likes rehashed content but I also don't think updating decade old dungeons is going to pester most people.

  4. #544
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr View Post
    You understand your problem is being burnt out from running the content so much, so instead of fixing the problem and dipping into the almost 20 years of content we have, you would rather continue on recreating then problem you’re trying to get away from.

    Are you slowly starting to understand why I called your opinion short sighted? Is ANY of this making sense to you
    Maaaan I can almost hear the gears in his head turning right now xD

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Let's talk about the real world instead, rather than one where Blizzard releases six new dungeons every 3 months.
    How many years has it been a patch lasts 3 months? Dungeons also have to be one of the easiest projects to compartmentalize teams for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexjimithing View Post
    Give me an example of a game that releases SIX new WoW-sized dungeons twice a year
    I mean in the past wow itself has launched with enough dungeons to do so if you divided them up like that... is saying wow cheating for this question?

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    How many years has it been a patch lasts 3 months? Dungeons also have to be one of the easiest projects to compartmentalize teams for.
    Dungeons, especially for M+, are certainly very time and resource intensive to develop. Like I said, I want to live in the real world, not this fantasy where churning out a dozen M+ dungeons takes an afternoon.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Ngl, that sounds pretty irrational.

    The dungeons they are updating are from MoP and prior. Meaning no one has run them as current content in 10+ years at this point. I get not everyone likes rehashed content but I also don't think updating decade old dungeons is going to pester most people.
    I would wager most people either don’t remember these dungeons or have never played them. Honestly I think they could go even further back to make mythic + dungeons. I see no reason why they couldn’t.

  8. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr View Post
    Timewalking for sure can carry it that far. How many dungeons are in wow right now at this very moment?
    I really don't think they it can... it can supplement it sure but not carry it.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I really don't think they it can... it can supplement it sure but not carry it.
    That's what they are doing: Supplementing.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    How many years has it been a patch lasts 3 months? Dungeons also have to be one of the easiest projects to compartmentalize teams for.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I mean in the past wow itself has launched with enough dungeons to do so if you divided them up like that... is saying wow cheating for this question?
    So you want 6 new dungeons every season for DF.

    It's launching with 8. We'll say DF lasts two years, four seasons total. With an average season length of 6 months that's a total of 26 dungeons.

    Which WoW expansion launched with 26 dungeons?

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Dungeons, especially for M+, are certainly very time and resource intensive to develop. Like I said, I want to live in the real world, not this fantasy where churning out a dozen M+ dungeons takes an afternoon.
    If that is the case why do you think time walking pre legion will work out well or are they different for "reasons".

    Dungeons are not really something I'm willing to cut much slack on given their self contained nature they are one of the few problems you can solve by throwing bodies at it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexjimithing View Post
    So you want 6 new dungeons every season for DF.

    It's launching with 8. We'll say DF lasts two years, four seasons total. With an average season length of 6 months that's a total of 26 dungeons.

    Which WoW expansion launched with 26 dungeons?
    Before I pick apart your mindless example if I want six a season something I've not said already...but how do you get 6x4=26?

  12. #552
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    If that is the case why do you think time walking pre legion will work out well or are they different for "reasons".

    Dungeons are not really something I'm willing to cut much slack on given their self contained nature they are one of the few problems you can solve by throwing bodies at it.
    This isn't time walking. That's a distinctly different feature.

    Dungeons are not self contained, especially with M+. There are gearing issues to consider, balance, applicability of affixes, exploits... I don't know where you get this idea that these are trivial pieces of content to develop. The nature of M+ makes them more intensive.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I really don't think they it can... it can supplement it sure but not carry it.
    You understand wow has over 100 if not close to 150 dungeons in its catalog right? It could get away with having only 1 new dungeon in each rotation and have old content recycled constantly to always have things feeling new.

  14. #554
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    This isn't time walking. That's a distinctly different feature.

    Dungeons are not self contained, especially with M+. There are gearing issues to consider, balance, applicability of affixes, exploits... I don't know where you get this idea that these are trivial pieces of content to develop. The nature of M+ makes them more intensive.
    It isn't that you are wrong...save the gear that is a different team to dungeon design but reread my post. You are branching far from the point I made and you kind of have the tendency to do that.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    If that is the case why do you think time walking pre legion will work out well or are they different for "reasons".

    Dungeons are not really something I'm willing to cut much slack on given their self contained nature they are one of the few problems you can solve by throwing bodies at it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Before I pick apart your mindless example if I want six a season something I've not said already...but how do you get 6x4=26?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    It's both though I can tell you are struggling to understand it. Ideally each season should have a good chunk of new dungeons... I would say 6 new 4 timewalking is a good number.
    ?????

    You quite literally there said 6 new dungeons a season.

    DF launched with 8 dungeons. 8 for season 1, 6 new for season 2, 6 new for season 3, 6 new for season 4.

    To make it easy on you since this seems....difficult for some reason, 8+6+6+6 = 26.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexjimithing View Post
    ?????

    You quite literally there said 6 new dungeons a season.

    DF launched with 8 dungeons. 8 for season 1, 6 new for season 2, 6 new for season 3, 6 new for season 4.

    To make it easy on you since this seems....difficult for some reason, 8+6+6+6 = 26.
    I'm just pointing out how hard you are strawmaning responding to arguments I've never made to make absurd counter arguments I'm not bothering to respond to.

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    It isn't that you are wrong...save the gear that is a different team to dungeon design but reread my post. You are branching far from the point I made and you kind of have the tendency to do that.
    If dungeons were trivial to design, they'd make tons of them. The idea that these are easy pieces of content to make is insane. They are almost certainly the HARDEST piece of content to design, far harder than raids.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  18. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr View Post
    You understand your problem is being burnt out from running the content so much, so instead of fixing the problem and dipping into the almost 20 years of content we have, you would rather continue on recreating then problem you’re trying to get away from.

    Are you slowly starting to understand why I called your opinion short sighted? Is ANY of this making sense to you
    I don't know why you're intent on changing my opinion. I have played all of these dungeons hundreds if not thousands of times. I am sincerely not interested in having them as Mythic dungeons. I would much rather get just brand new dungeons and burn out on those than have to do the ones I am already burnt out on. I don't know why that is a hard concept for you to understand. You don't even have to agree with me. Can can legit go "ok that's cool for you, I disagree I like the change." And that could be it. but for some reason beyond my comprehension you're dead set on arguing with me on the internet like any of this even matters. And the only reason I am even responding at this point is because this god awful zoom meeting I have to sit in is going to last for another 20 minutes.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    If dungeons were trivial to design, they'd make tons of them. The idea that these are easy pieces of content to make is insane. They are almost certainly the HARDEST piece of content to design, far harder than raids.
    Ive not said otherwise... though I imagine raids are harder given the number of players they are certainly comparable.

  20. #560
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    There's good and bad to the approach.

    The good is that having a 4 new/4 old split offers some variety in the gear so I'm not just farming the same thing every tier.
    It also offers some freshness in bringing back dungeons that are just mog farms and otherwise doing nothing of value by sitting unused.
    A rotation means something relatively new (compared to previous tier) so mix it up because, tbh, running the same dungeons for 2+ years straight does get old.

    The bad is that only 4 of the 8 are M+ worthy, meaning that beyond the first couple weeks of launch, 4 of the dungeons will not see any activity and more or less be completely irrelevant.
    Not a great look when your brand new content is not useful in any meaningful way.
    I'm assuming they will split them into "group A and B" dungeon sets, so A gets S1, B gets S2, and back and forth.
    This means by S2, we are effectively learning new dungeons (bc there was no prior M+ with them) as well as refreshing ourselves on older ones, so it may be a rocky start once S2 kicks off.

    Overall I think this approach can be good, but I would have liked to see them kick it up to maybe 6 "current" to alleviate the whole "new content not used" thing a little, then do a round robin of which 2 "sit out" the next tier, so there's still that familiarity and it's a little easier starting the next season.
    I would keep the old dungeons to 4, for a total of 10 dungeons in the mix, which would also offer a larger loot pool and room for more items to build the "alternative BiS" for second tier items in case the one you want evades you, but also just because there's 36 specs and not everyone wants to be limited to crit/mast or haste/crit on their pants; maybe a couple more dungeons offers another pants option, who knows.

    Anyway, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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