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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    And I was referring to how the area that was impacted by the catapults should be soaking wet, further retarding fire on top of the green living wood.

    Try to start a fire with soaking wet green wood if you really want to see what I mean. It will NOT burn without significant efforts and other fuel materials to dry it out.
    You mean significant efforts like Azerite that works like freaking napalm and C4 ran off to Silent Hill and had an unholy lovechild, along with things like shamanism to make winds extend the range and/or lighten the boulders?
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You mean significant efforts like Azerite that works like freaking napalm and C4 ran off to Silent Hill and had an unholy lovechild, along with things like shamanism to make winds extend the range and/or lighten the boulders?
    And yet we faced Azerite weapons and explosives in the expack later on and best they did was some mediocre level lightshow and sub-par fuel. Its like writers wanted to shit on Alliance so bad that they made Azerite into überwaffen for a single book and then nerfed it to the ground later on. But again, loving caress of Blizz greasy hand often carries horde forward through meagre barriers of logic, sanity, continuity and lore.
    Last edited by VladlTutushkin; 2022-04-28 at 06:05 AM.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You mean significant efforts like Azerite that works like freaking napalm and C4 ran off to Silent Hill and had an unholy lovechild, along with things like shamanism to make winds extend the range and/or lighten the boulders?
    After the fact fan justifications, unless there's some official statement I missed. Even if such exists, after the fact justifications are damage control at best, flirting with retcons at worst.

    Like @vladTutushkin says, Azerite is later shown in more detail to be barely worth noticing. No matter how you approach this, it's bad inconsistent writing.
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    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
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    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
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  4. #84
    Herald of the Titans Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    It makes sense because not all humans of Lordaeron became Forsaken, or undeads in the first place, and that fhere are still people of Lordaeron alive in the south of the subcontinent or who found refuge in ofher kingdoms.
    there's neutral Argent Lordaeronians living in Hearthglen and supposedly in Tyr's Hand after it was reclaimed (they just haven't updated it yet)
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrorthatflapsinthenight View Post
    It makes sense because not all humans of Lordaeron became Forsaken, or undeads in the first place, and that fhere are still people of Lordaeron alive in the south of the subcontinent or who found refuge in ofher kingdoms.
    According to Exploring the Eastern Kingdoms, Tirisfal Glade is Horde territory once again - and it is implied that Calia and Voss are trying to rebuild something in Northern Lordaeron.

    I suppose the night elves could also resettle in the Eastern Kingdoms, it was part of ancient Kalimdor after all, although one could wonder why their civilization has so few remnants in the continent compared to Kalimdor.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  6. #86
    Why would Night Elves resettle in the Eastern Kingdoms, when their core home land was northern Kalimdor for 10 000 years. Nordrassil is the perfect place. Its the original World Tree. More powerful, older, not corrupted. Blizzard should make it bigger and more epic and put the new Night Elf capital there.

    And from that place the Night Elf can follow their desire in retaking their ancient territories. Be it Felwood, Azshara, Ashevale. There are also allies they could recruit here. Like the Furbolgs, who are a no brainer. And a group of Botani would fit with the Night Elves extremely well.

    The Night Elves connections to the lands of the Eastern Kingdoms are a joke compared to that. They have no place there. The Eastern Kingdoms are already cramped completely with other races and people with much better/greater connections to it.
    Last edited by Reinhart11; 2022-04-30 at 06:37 AM.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhart11 View Post
    Why would Night Elves resettle in the Eastern Kingdoms, when their core home land was northern Kalimdor for 10 000 years. Nordrassil is the perfect place. Its the original World Tree. More powerful, older, not corrupted. Blizzard should make it bigger and more epic and put the new Night Elf capital there.

    And from that place the Night Elf can follow their desire in retaking their ancient territories. Be it Felwood, Azshara, Ashevale. There are also allies they could recruit here. Like the Furbolgs, who are a no brainer. And a group of Botani would fit with the Night Elves extremely well.

    The Night Elves connections to the lands of the Eastern Kingdoms are a joke compared to that. They have no place there. The Eastern Kingdoms are already cramped completely with other races and people with much better/greater connections to it.
    But Nordrassil is still uniquely vulnerable, and furthermore, it is a Cenarion Circle outpost also, which could make political tensions rather awkward and complicated in the long term. What is to stop the Horde military from simply flying a dozen airships from Orgrimmar straight into the heart of Mount Hyjal to destroy it in a future conflict?

    According to Exploring Kalimdor, both Ashenvale and Azshara are still highly contested areas, but I can't imagine the night elves are winning there, given their very low numbers at the moment.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Also true, yes. An Alliance garrison might be a better idea than a civilian population center if you take that into account.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's the history of Shaladrassil, yes. But it does sort of conflict with the already held convention that Nordrassil was actually the first World Tree planted following the events of the Sundering. Which is where the idea of Shaladrassil as a Great Tree and not a World Tree stems from - Nordrassil being the first true World Tree (one blessed by the Dragon Aspects and connected to the Emerald Dream), whereas Shaladrassil received its blessing later on and so became a World Tree after Nordrassil, even though as a structure it is actually older than its sibling.
    All of them are world trees, including the ones in the Emerald Dream. Shaladrassil was sanctified long before Nordrassil was ever planted. It was in the exact spot of G'Hanir in the corresponding Emerald Dream/Azeroth location. Shaladrassil had the benefit of not needing the acorn from G'Hanir to be grown. It grew as G'Hanir did. G'Hanir the Great tree may be gone, but with it, corruption is able to infect Shaladrassil due to its significance and location to the original Mother Tree.

    What made Nordrassil special is that it was planted beside a small pond Illidan used vials from the Well of Eternity to try to reproduce a new Well of Eternity with. That water is what made Nordrassil take root as it did and grow as fast as it did, and even how it recovered after Archimonde attempted to destroy it. During the Invasion of the Legion (events of Legion), demons attempted to destroy the tree once more. They failed. A guardian bearing the last branch of G'Hanir, along with other druids managed to drive them back. The tree healed from the flames almost immediately.

    Shaladrassil is older, has far greater history to the night elves, and is at the location of the heart of the Emerald Dream. It is not the strongest. Without G'Hanir as its counterpart in the Dream, the tree is susceptible to corruption, and may have a much harder time springing back from such corruption. Nordrassil was planted in an entirely different location, bolstered by the arcane powers from the lake as it is imbued with the Well of Eternity, and it is speculated that, demons were pouring forth from the Well of Eternity during the War of the Ancients, and might have still from the lake atop Mt. Hyjal, but the tree stopped them. THAT was why Archimonde set off during the events of WC3 to destroy Nordrassil; to remove the barrier from Azeroth to Argus.

    To your point, Nordrassil was not the first world tree. Nordrassil has a font of power from which to draw from, i.e. the Lake. Shaladrassil does not. Not anymore. It hasn't since Aviana died, and G'Hanir died with her. Shaladrassil predates the Dragon Aspects, as does G'Hanir. Shaladrassil was created shortly after G'Hanir took root in the Emerald dream Eons before Galakrond fell, and the avatars of the Pantheon Titan keepers created the Aspects from the proto dragons that saw to Galakrond's demise. I think the point remains, though. Shaladrassil's blessing came from the Emerald dream itself, and G'Hanir. It does not fall to the Dragon Aspects to sanctify a World Tree. Teldrassil was a world tree. The Aspects refused to sanctify it.
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  9. #89
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    But Nordrassil is still uniquely vulnerable, and furthermore, it is a Cenarion Circle outpost also, which could make political tensions rather awkward and complicated in the long term. What is to stop the Horde military from simply flying a dozen airships from Orgrimmar straight into the heart of Mount Hyjal to destroy it in a future conflict?

    According to Exploring Kalimdor, both Ashenvale and Azshara are still highly contested areas, but I can't imagine the night elves are winning there, given their very low numbers at the moment.
    The Cenarion Circle firmly backs the night elfs and is lead by one of the leaders of the night elfs being malfurion, there isn’t gonna be any tension on that front.

    Hyjal is also an incredibly defendable position and has atleast 3 powerful wild gods living there with more able to stop in when ever they want like they did when pushing back the molten front which was already in there own borders.

    Even if the wild gods left the night elfs to hang they likely don’t let the horde bomb there home and tree.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The Cenarion Circle firmly backs the night elfs and is lead by one of the leaders of the night elfs being malfurion, there isn’t gonna be any tension on that front.

    Hyjal is also an incredibly defendable position and has atleast 3 powerful wild gods living there with more able to stop in when ever they want like they did when pushing back the molten front which was already in there own borders.

    Even if the wild gods left the night elfs to hang they likely don’t let the horde bomb there home and tree.
    To be entirely honest after all we have seen in Elegy and BfA Horde may need like… 3 extra grunts and a single adventurer to handle the demigods and a few spare catapults to melt Hyjal down.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melusine View Post
    All of them are world trees, including the ones in the Emerald Dream. Shaladrassil was sanctified long before Nordrassil was ever planted. It was in the exact spot of G'Hanir in the corresponding Emerald Dream/Azeroth location. Shaladrassil had the benefit of not needing the acorn from G'Hanir to be grown. It grew as G'Hanir did. G'Hanir the Great tree may be gone, but with it, corruption is able to infect Shaladrassil due to its significance and location to the original Mother Tree.

    What made Nordrassil special is that it was planted beside a small pond Illidan used vials from the Well of Eternity to try to reproduce a new Well of Eternity with. That water is what made Nordrassil take root as it did and grow as fast as it did, and even how it recovered after Archimonde attempted to destroy it. During the Invasion of the Legion (events of Legion), demons attempted to destroy the tree once more. They failed. A guardian bearing the last branch of G'Hanir, along with other druids managed to drive them back. The tree healed from the flames almost immediately.

    Shaladrassil is older, has far greater history to the night elves, and is at the location of the heart of the Emerald Dream. It is not the strongest. Without G'Hanir as its counterpart in the Dream, the tree is susceptible to corruption, and may have a much harder time springing back from such corruption. Nordrassil was planted in an entirely different location, bolstered by the arcane powers from the lake as it is imbued with the Well of Eternity, and it is speculated that, demons were pouring forth from the Well of Eternity during the War of the Ancients, and might have still from the lake atop Mt. Hyjal, but the tree stopped them. THAT was why Archimonde set off during the events of WC3 to destroy Nordrassil; to remove the barrier from Azeroth to Argus.

    To your point, Nordrassil was not the first world tree. Nordrassil has a font of power from which to draw from, i.e. the Lake. Shaladrassil does not. Not anymore. It hasn't since Aviana died, and G'Hanir died with her. Shaladrassil predates the Dragon Aspects, as does G'Hanir. Shaladrassil was created shortly after G'Hanir took root in the Emerald dream Eons before Galakrond fell, and the avatars of the Pantheon Titan keepers created the Aspects from the proto dragons that saw to Galakrond's demise. I think the point remains, though. Shaladrassil's blessing came from the Emerald dream itself, and G'Hanir. It does not fall to the Dragon Aspects to sanctify a World Tree. Teldrassil was a world tree. The Aspects refused to sanctify it.
    There's a known taxonomic difference between World Trees and Great Trees. According to Chronicle Vol. 1, Nordrassil was the first and original World Tree - its purpose was to mask the new Well of Eternity created by Illidan and his followers and to assume the duties of the ancient Well of Eternity in generating the evolutionary energies that had created the Night Elves in the first place and enhanced the evolution of many other species. The Great Trees, such as Andrassil/Vordrassil in Northrend, as well as the trees housing portals to the Emerald Dream such as in Seradane, were created from cuttings of Nordrassil planted in new locations to halt the flow of Saronite stemming from Yogg-Saron's prison.

    This taxonomy and legacy from Nordrassil (which includes the later creation of Teldrassil) are what makes Shaladrassil a bit murky as concerns its distinction. If Nordrassil was the first of the World Trees, as stated by Chronicle Vol. 1, then Shaladrassil can't really be a World Tree. G'Hanir, too, isn't a World Tree - it actually has a higher distinction as the Mother Tree, the origin of all trees on Azeroth as well as a kind of afterlife realm overseen by Aviana. G'Hanir appears to still exist to some degree, probably within the Emerald Dream, as Aviana's new avatar offers to bring Draenor's Arakkoa to the Mother Tree during the events of WoD. Shaladrassil is most definitely special, as well as sacred, and definitely merits being a Great Tree in its own right. But since it shares none of the history of Nordrassil, nor in Nordrassil's purpose as part and parcel of its connection to the Well of Eternity, the appellation of "World Tree" wouldn't seem to fit.
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  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    there's neutral Argent Lordaeronians living in Hearthglen and supposedly in Tyr's Hand after it was reclaimed (they just haven't updated it yet)
    Lordaeronians or just humans? We have any confirmations on that?

  13. #93
    there probably have been night elves that resettled there but night elves are also incredibly tied to their region and stick to it forever, even silithus

    there's also the issue that after 2 major wars and the dozens of brush fires that have happened since reign of chaos, the night elves are kind of depleted. they were gonna do something with the wardens going on a killing spree over letting magic users and specifically highborne back into their culture but that seemed to have gotten dropped
    Last edited by Sableye; 2022-05-05 at 10:28 AM.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Lordaeronians or just humans? We have any confirmations on that?
    that old Lordaeronian couple who took refuge in Stormwind when the Scarlets took over Hearthglen then returned back when the Argents took over
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  15. #95
    They shouldn't have to relocate.

    Since the Alliance has "won" the Fourth War, Horde should have to move their butts out of Darkshore, Ashenvale, Hillsbrad Foothills and Arathi.
    Moreover they should be forced to pay reparations like every proper war loser has to. The Horde should also provide slave labor to rebuild the cities they destroyed.

    That would, realistically, be the outcome, this is what an actual war victor would demand from the losing side.

    But we all know the devs are Horde simps, so nothing remotely realistic will come from it, and the Alliance will gain exactly ZERO from "winning" this war.

    We also know by now, the devs hate the night elves and their fans with a vengeance, so they will not keep their promise of the "renewal" Elune spoke of when she made Tyrande decide between vengeance and renewal.
    Last edited by Eggroll; 2022-05-05 at 04:14 PM.


  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    They shouldn't have to relocate.

    Since the Alliance has "won" the Fourth War, Horde should have to move their butts out of Darkshore, Ashenvale, Hillsbrad Foothills and Arathi.
    Moreover they should be forced to pay reparations like every proper war loser has to. The Horde should also provide slave labor to rebuild the cities they destroyed.

    That would, realistically, be the outcome, this is what an actual war victor would demand from the losing side.

    But we all know the devs are Horde simps, so nothing remotely realistic will come from it, and the Alliance will gain exactly ZERO from "winning" this war.

    We also know by now, the devs hate the night elves and their fans with a vengeance, so they will not keep their promise of the "renewal" Elune spoke of when she made Tyrande decide between vengeance and renewal.
    I think the Horde still badly needs resources in Kalimdor. Even the Horde Council cannot bend over backwards to appease the night elves' demands, or else their people would simply turn against them or accuse them of being Alliance sympathizers.

    Another reason I thought the Broken Isles was reasonable is because Teldrassil's destruction also left most Gilneans homeless. But there is a very convenient Gilnean settlement, even flying their national banner, in Val'sharah.


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    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-05-08 at 06:19 PM.
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  17. #97
    The horde are the only ones who live on the broken isles right now through HMT and NB. Why would the night elves move in right next to them and abandon their home?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The Cenarion Circle firmly backs the night elfs and is lead by one of the leaders of the night elfs being malfurion, there isn’t gonna be any tension on that front.

    Hyjal is also an incredibly defendable position and has atleast 3 powerful wild gods living there with more able to stop in when ever they want like they did when pushing back the molten front which was already in there own borders.

    Even if the wild gods left the night elfs to hang they likely don’t let the horde bomb there home and tree.
    The Cenarion Circle is a neutral organization, though, with extensive tauren and troll membership. We'd have a repeat of the Purge of Dalaran, when a neutral group picked a side and expelled the other side. IE a lot of hurt feelings, desires for revenge, and stirred up trouble.

    Also I don't think Owen meant them bombing Nordrassil itself, even the most braindead person knows we need Nordrassil to, kinda live. I think he meant destroying the night elf settlements and presence so they could occupy it.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  19. #99
    The Insane Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    The Cenarion Circle is a neutral organization, though, with extensive tauren and troll membership. We'd have a repeat of the Purge of Dalaran, when a neutral group picked a side and expelled the other side. IE a lot of hurt feelings, desires for revenge, and stirred up trouble.

    Also I don't think Owen meant them bombing Nordrassil itself, even the most braindead person knows we need Nordrassil to, kinda live. I think he meant destroying the night elf settlements and presence so they could occupy it.
    The circle is only neutral in the vaguest of senses they are lead by the leader of the night elf's and even the horde parts of it favour the night elfs over the rest of the horde at the moment as shown in shadows risings. If the horde acts up at best the horde part of the circle will not take part like in BFA at worse they will openly stand against them.

    And the wild gods don’t just care about Nordassil they care about all of Hyjal as shown by them wanting to regrow the damage done by the molten front, if the horde tried to bomb any of it they wouldn’t sit idle.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The circle is only neutral in the vaguest of senses they are lead by the leader of the night elf's and even the horde parts of it favour the night elfs over the rest of the horde at the moment as shown in shadows risings. If the horde acts up at best the horde part of the circle will not take part like in BFA at worse they will openly stand against them.

    And the wild gods don’t just care about Nordassil they care about all of Hyjal as shown by them wanting to regrow the damage done by the molten front, if the horde tried to bomb any of it they wouldn’t sit idle.
    "The Cenarion Circle operates outside of Tyrande Whisperwind's authority, and is apparently currently co-led by Cenarius, along with several Archdruids including Malfurion Stormrage and Hamuul Runetotem." So, it's not part of Tyrande's night elf faction, one of its three leaders is neutral as can possibly be, and one is Horde. That's... about as neutral as neutral can be. One of each side and one guy who will never join either side.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

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